WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

[cairnswk]

i don't really care about issues that have arisen with the popularity of 1v1 games. this map is clearly meant for larger games, and if you choose to play 1v1, deal with the issues that happen. the only problem that i see often in my team games, is that the plane bonus (multiple at times), is far too easy to land on with only needing 2. bump that up to 3, and the game is more fair. other than that, i love the map... still one of the best on the site!!-0

p.s.-hey, cairns, remember when me and cooper played you and lack on the day it was released, and we were passing armies from the guns to the planes and onto the center island?!! ha!!! that was a GREAT bug that you had to run off and fix, missing turns in the process!!!!

Gawd no, i don't remember that. Too long and 16 maps ago.

[cairnswk]

Version 43

[cairnswk]

...
Well for 2 player games - as it stands - you cannot create a drop that doesn't give a bonus...
Or do you mean - in the first round - continent bonuses aren't awarded?
In that case :- Poker Club wouldn't work - as that map relies on people holding a bonus straight up.
C.

Well it should be feasible for lackattack to implement another xml feature where no player gets a bonus on the first round only as:

<continent>
<name>NY AA</name>
<bonus>1</bonus>
<components>
<component>NY AA</component>
</components>
<roundexception>1</roundexception>
</continent>

[cairnswk]

i don't really care about issues that have arisen with the popularity of 1v1 games. this map is clearly meant for larger games, and if you choose to play 1v1, deal with the issues that happen. the only problem that i see often in my team games, is that the plane bonus (multiple at times), is far too easy to land on with only needing 2. bump that up to 3, and the game is more fair. other than that, i love the map... still one of the best on the site!!-0
...

well, now that i look at the map. perhaps the aircraft drop bonus and all others would be solved if i increased the bonuses to:
Until group taken, within any group
+3 any 4 aircraft
+4 any 5 aircraft

Would that eliminate some of the bonus issues with all games

[Joodoo]

i don't really care about issues that have arisen with the popularity of 1v1 games. this map is clearly meant for larger games, and if you choose to play 1v1, deal with the issues that happen. the only problem that i see often in my team games, is that the plane bonus (multiple at times), is far too easy to land on with only needing 2. bump that up to 3, and the game is more fair. other than that, i love the map... still one of the best on the site!!-0
...

well, now that i look at the map. perhaps the aircraft drop bonus and all others would be solved if i increased the bonuses to:
Until group taken, within any group
+3 any 4 aircraft
+4 any 5 aircraft

Would that eliminate some of the bonus issues with all games

sounds good

[lt_oddball]

This thing with the first of 2 players having a huge edge over the other is a uniform problem with large maps with multiple bonusparches.
It's not something typical for Pearl Harbor.

There is a general solution that works for all these maps (like Waterloo etc..) and it should be simple to implement:
1) DON'T START 2 PLAYER GAMES WITH THESE TYPES OF LARGE MAPS.
(duh- )
That was the simplest solution.

2) Implement many , many, many more neutrals on the map. So each of the 2 players should not start with more starting territories than they would if playing in a 8 player field (something like 9 territories ?).
There, simple and effective !

[cairnswk]

This thing with the first of 2 players having a huge edge over the other is a uniform problem with large maps with multiple bonusparches.
It's not something typical for Pearl Harbor.

There is a general solution that works for all these maps (like Waterloo etc..) and it should be simple to implement:
1) DON'T START 2 PLAYER GAMES WITH THESE TYPES OF LARGE MAPS.
(duh- )
That was the simplest solution.

2) Implement many , many, many more neutrals on the map. So each of the 2 players should not start with more starting territories than they would if playing in a 8 player field (something like 9 territories ?).
There, simple and effective !

Yes, thanks lt_oddball, the other thing i am thinking of doing is upping the plane required numbers before that bonus takes affect.

[Blitzaholic]

cairns we need to talk about revamping this.


it is a great map but it is unbalanced and not fair for game play.


for starters i suggest the planes or zeros for every 2 you hold you get a bonus of plus 1 not 3

[cairnswk]

cairns we need to talk about revamping this.
it is a great map but it is unbalanced and not fair for game play.
for starters i suggest the planes or zeros for every 2 you hold you get a bonus of plus 1 not 3

I was thinking:

* Until Group taken, within any Group
+ 3 any 4 aircraft + 4 any 5 aircraft

That will still stop the early bonuses, but still make the planes worthwhile obtaining; and still leave the continent bonus reachable also.

[MrBenn]

cairns we need to talk about revamping this.
it is a great map but it is unbalanced and not fair for game play.
for starters i suggest the planes or zeros for every 2 you hold you get a bonus of plus 1 not 3

I was thinking:

* Until Group taken, within any Group
+ 3 any 4 aircraft + 4 any 5 aircraft

That will still stop the early bonuses, but still make the planes worthwhile obtaining; and still leave the continent bonus reachable also.

That's a good solution.

[karelpietertje]

Game 4798757
look at this drop

at this moment i havent lost yet... but I don't know if i have a chance..

[Thezzaruz]

Why do people post links to speed games and ask us to look at the drop???

[Blitzaholic]

cairns we need to talk about revamping this.
it is a great map but it is unbalanced and not fair for game play.
for starters i suggest the planes or zeros for every 2 you hold you get a bonus of plus 1 not 3

I was thinking:

* Until Group taken, within any Group
+ 3 any 4 aircraft + 4 any 5 aircraft

That will still stop the early bonuses, but still make the planes worthwhile obtaining; and still leave the continent bonus reachable also.

ok, well, this would be an improvement, I like your idea here better than what it is currently, thank you for considering, maybe all the planes would be like this, so many go for the planes bonus's and no others, awesome map for quads, but dubs, trips, and others it really is challenging on some drops, so yes, if you can make it more balanced, super and thank you.

[lgoasklucyl]

I really agree that switching the planes around like that would help balance the map immensely.

I'm on a dubs on the map now, and he dropped two different sets of planes, and AA, plus the standard +6 for a 13 drop before I even had a turn.

My initial drop was reduced to about 6, rendering a comeback next to impossible without phenomenal dice.

Otherwise, I do love the map.

Playing it quads can reduce the problem slightly.

[AndyDufresne]

Talk about all this long ago---still talk about the above?


--Andy

[Blitzaholic]

Talk about all this long ago---still talk about the above?


--Andy

exactly, do NOT let players play on this Map til fixed please

[e_i_pi]

Hey, I was wondering if you could make it so that owning 1 plane was worth something like, say, +9 deploy. Player who goes first doesn't automatically win as it stands, they only win about 95% of the time

[cairnswk]

Talk about all this long ago---still talk about the above?


--Andy

exactly, do NOT let players play on this Map til fixed please

Hey, I was wondering if you could make it so that owning 1 plane was worth something like, say, +9 deploy. Player who goes first doesn't automatically win as it stands, they only win about 95% of the time

Guys, i'm ready to make the changes, have been for a while. But i can only move as fast as those in charge will allow.

[e_i_pi]

Talk about all this long ago---still talk about the above?


--Andy

exactly, do NOT let players play on this Map til fixed please

Hey, I was wondering if you could make it so that owning 1 plane was worth something like, say, +9 deploy. Player who goes first doesn't automatically win as it stands, they only win about 95% of the time

Guys, i'm ready to make the changes, have been for a while. But i can only move as fast as those in charge will allow.

Understood cairns. It's frustrating that someone who puts in as much time to this site as yourself has to wait for the slow grinding wheels of CC progress to tick over

[istanbul39]

love this map but unplayable as is...
when are the changes coming?

[cairnswk]

love this map but unplayable as is...
when are the changes coming?

When the foundry forman decides to tell me what he wants to do in order to achieve the changes.

[MrBenn]

I have no problem with updating the map.

Have you created an updated set of images and XML? Once I've seen them, then we can formally announce that the change is coming, and send the links for uploading. Does that sound like a plan?

[cairnswk]

I have no problem with updating the map.

Have you created an updated set of images and XML? Once I've seen them, then we can formally announce that the change is coming, and send the links for uploading. Does that sound like a plan?

Excellent.
Thanks MrBenn.
I had waited sometime for this but Andy never got around to it. I'll post something in the next day or so.

[cairnswk]

This is the new Version 45 with the adjustments.

Click image to enlarge.

888 images

Click image to enlarge.

This is the xml file for checking.
Coordinates have been changed only for K6.

http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/Pearl_Har ... 040909.xml

Small
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... urV45S.jpg
Large
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... urV45L.jpg

[slowreactor]

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!