Peloponnesian War [Done]

[MrBenn]

Qwert,
I'm not doing anything to hold your map up - I'm just posting my observations on the map at a time convenient to me. I am still amazed at the negative attitude you exude - this is the primary reason I do not pay more regular attention to your maps.
[/off topic]

The gameplay looks well-balanced in terms of starting positions: nowhere appears to be particularly weak or overpowered, which is a good thing.

The only concern I have with the gameplay is in relation to the objective... I'm not sure how balanced the option of going for the objective (all 8 shields) is compared to the option of eliminating all your opponents. This shouldn't have an impact on the progress the map makes through the foundry, but will effect the way games are played... Example - I imagine that the Southernmost extent of the Peloponseian peninsular (Argices/Lacedaem...) will only be taken over by somebody going for the shields. To get the shields requires defeating at least 20 neutral armies, in return for only a small bonus. There are not going to be enemies the other side, and it is likely that this region of the map will rarely see any fighting once games are in progress.

I don't have a simple or elegant solution, because I don't think there is one. I'm not suggesting that you should change anything, but just think this could represent a missed opportunity to balance out the winning strategy between opponent elimination and objective occupation.

As I've already said, it is a good thing that the gameplay appears balanced, and that nobody begins with a clear advantage or head-start; this balance can be difficult to achieve, so well-done on that.

[gimil]

The solution you have came up with for the inset is very good qwert. See what a little savvy can do? I would only suggest that you give the blue box some kind of outline so that it stands out a little better, not to strong an outline thou to make it look to excluded from the map.

[Qwert]

by gimil » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:48 am

The solution you have came up with for the inset is very good qwert. See what a little savvy can do? I would only suggest that you give the blue box some kind of outline so that it stands out a little better, not to strong an outline thou to make it look to excluded from the map.

I dont know what you talking,and you back to exagerate to much.
I think that these is enough visible to all people figure with using 1% of hes brain. Same time same situation,every mine map you think that people is stypid and that will not recognise what is what,and every time you are wrong. Before i even put Arrows,regular normal smart people all ready know what part of map inset represent. Now i dont understand why you every time must pretend to be stupid,when you not stupid. Why you assume that people are stupid,and that even now can not find what inset represent. Why i every time must have big conflict with you,and dont have these problems with other people.
And what is most annoing,that every time CA have same oppinion,and not one CA dont have opposite oppinion(afraid). If you can not accept that,then you can ignore me,but please tell me,to know that,because im realy lost patience for yours exageration. Every time you need to find nonexist problem,well these need to stop.

[Incandenza]

Here ya go, qwert:


Let the graphics nitpicking begin. I look forward to playing on this down the road.

[gimil]

Qwert I don't know what your problem is but me and my stamper have had it up to our necks with your aggression.

Lets start from the very begining. One major rule has always (and most like will always) goverened the way in which mapmaking runs:

4. All sound advice must be followed unless a logical rebuttal by the cartographer or another member of the community is provided.

This rule has been here since before even I or oaktown were CA's. Its my CC right to give any advice/concerns/likes/dislikes to many map I want, as it is will ALL community members here on CC. Anything I (or anyone else) advises should be 'followed unless a logical rebuttal by the cartographer or another member of the community'.

I can a very SIMPLE and small concern AND a possible solution to that concern. I did not exaggerate anything. Does my concern exist? To ME it does, unless you (or anyone else) can give logical rebuttel to my concern there is no reason NOT to follow my advice.

This is the way thing have always worked in the foundry, this isn't some crazy rule I have just made up.

So qwert, unless you begin to work with the foundry the way it has ALWAYS worked, and start accepting or rebutteling advice that is given to you I will NOT be stamping you maps. For to long have you been alooud to cry that you get treated unfairly and get away with it. You DO NOT get treated unfairly, you get treated (if anything) much better than most when it comes to stamping.

So what is it going to be? are you going to start addressing (or rebutteling) advice given to you? Or are you going to continue to point the finger at me and treat me like an ass hole? I am only hear to help you make your map the best it possible can be.

[Qwert]

Im just read poison rome map topic, and you again want to present same thing-dont like tittle want to change,but cairswk have more influence,and he refuse that. Unfortunatly i dont have that, and im all ready give you totaly valid logical answer, but you dont want to apply that, its a same like in Imperium romanum map insets-im lost to much time to explane that people not stupid and that will figure very fast what dots presents,but you prolonge map for long period. When map quenched-do you know how many complains i get with map inset who is presented with three dots-zero. Now its a same situation,and you repeat same things-that people will not recognise what part of map present map inset. People not stupid,even before in begining,without any sumbols or any gray shapes around these area,people know what these inset represent-and now nobody can not make any mistakes.
Now i dont understand, why you create problem,where is no problem.
I can understand when you say "Change Objectives to be Objective" or move Imbrians closer to hes Army Shadows", but these dont have any logical reason to i apply.

So qwert, unless you begin to work with the foundry the way it has ALWAYS worked, and start accepting or rebutteling advice that is given to you I will NOT be stamping you maps.

Please you are not present all foundry,like you try in Poison rome-you present CA, who is now in advantage,because only you have power to give stamps, and now i only can waith better situation,when will some other CA who replace you to apply mine logical and complete normal explanation.

[gimil]

qwert don't bother comparing yourself to carinswk. That is a different map and a different set of concerns.

Cairns gives every piece of feedback in his map threads dignity and respect. Sometimes (like many of use) he gets annoyed at some thing sometimes. But he always remebers the way the system works and knows how to conduct himself.

You on the other hand always feel like the victim. Until you remeber how the process works and you begin to conduct yourself properly (rather than shouting and huffing that your not getting your own way) then I won't be stamping this map. Not because I don't want to, but because you arn't properly recieving and replying to feedback.

The exact same would happen to RJ, cairns, WM, DiM, oaktown or MrBenn if they acted the way you are right now.

This isn't appropriate no matter how much you want to argue that it is:

by gimil » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:48 am

The solution you have came up with for the inset is very good qwert. See what a little savvy can do? I would only suggest that you give the blue box some kind of outline so that it stands out a little better, not to strong an outline thou to make it look to excluded from the map.

I dont know what you talking,and you back to exagerate to much.
I think that these is enough visible to all people figure with using 1% of hes brain. Same time same situation,every mine map you think that people is stypid and that will not recognise what is what,and every time you are wrong. Before i even put Arrows,regular normal smart people all ready know what part of map inset represent. Now i dont understand why you every time must pretend to be stupid,when you not stupid. Why you assume that people are stupid,and that even now can not find what inset represent. Why i every time must have big conflict with you,and dont have these problems with other people.
And what is most annoing,that every time CA have same oppinion,and not one CA dont have opposite oppinion(afraid). If you can not accept that,then you can ignore me,but please tell me,to know that,because im realy lost patience for yours exageration. Every time you need to find nonexist problem,well these need to stop.

[Qwert]

Thanks for answer, I give mine explanation,now i will waith,you to apply or reanswer to even better valid explanation,or to waith some other who are more objective to tell who is right,or to waith some new Graphic CA. Call these your victory,but i hope that things will change in future.

[gimil]

Thanks for answer, I give mine explanation,now i will waith,you to apply or reanswer to even better valid explanation,or to waith some other who are more objective to tell who is right,or to waith some new Graphic CA. Call these your victory,but i hope that things will change in future.

The answer you gave stated more of less CA hate in it qwert. Telling me that I pretent I am stupid. Look, this took me all of three second to do. Doesn't it look just a little more presentable? My advice wasn't aimed at intellect, my comment was aimed to make your map just that little more athetically pleasing:

Click image to enlarge.

If you don't like it thats fine, say you dont like it and why but don't go on a strop because I give you advice I feel will make your map better.

I keep telling myself to walk away and ignore your map, but I keep coming back because I care enought to get the job done.

[Qwert]

Now maybe im stupid then, when i ask several pages before,to give me every thing what you like, you dont want to. Can you explane me why you then cause a problem? If you have better solution why you not present then? If you have something what you like,why you not give me?
I whas open for cooperation and i ask to any one give me to put in map,now you say that i dont want to listen to you. That is not true, and you can read these in several pages back.
If you think that is option what satisfy you,then we can solve a problem,but if you not satisfy with yours examle,then i can not pleased you.

If you satisfy,then send me informacion to create these.

[gimil]

Here is the point qwert, its not just about satisfying me. You need to be happy with it as well. If you don't like what I have shown me thats fine, but you need to at least say why you don't like it so we (the community) can come to an agreement on issues like this.

Before we go on I just need to know that you understand what I am talking about and I need you to understand that I am not your enemy.

If we can be clear on that then we can move on and I can give you the instructions to fix the issue.

[Qwert]

by gimil » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:15 am

Here is the point qwert, its not just about satisfying me. You need to be happy with it as well. If you don't like what I have shown me thats fine, but you need to at least say why you don't like it so we (the community) can come to an agreement on issues like this.

Before we go on I just need to know that you understand what I am talking about and I need you to understand that I am not your enemy.

If we can be clear on that then we can move on and I can give you the instructions to fix the issue.

I dont know what you want to tell, but i know what im tell. With these examle you present your self,not comunity,and these is your view of boxes(dont mix comunity with that).
Now we can do these in easy way(like i say several pages before),to take these and put in map, or you prefere some hard way.
I have mine options Arrows, some people dont prefere,and i give open hands to everybody who give me something. All these problem will not exist that you give me several days before. Are you going to give me informacions, or you change your mind?

[gimil]

It is a 1px straight black line around each end of the box. Mines is a little messy but I am sure you can make a much cleaner rectangle box.

[Qwert]

Ok,i will doing these in much easy way,just copy and paste these part what you present.

[Qwert]

new update-fix like Gimil presented in map above.

Click image to enlarge.

[alster]

new update-fix like Gimil presented in map above.

Just wanted to say that you seem to have made another great map.

They are very very good and all of them are up there being my personal favorite maps. Thanks!

[Qwert]

alstergreen
Just wanted to say that you seem to have made another great map.

They are very very good and all of them are up there being my personal favorite maps. Thanks!

Thanks,i dont see you for long time. I hope that you enjoy in other map to

[Blitzaholic]

nice job with this qwert

[iancanton]

it seems that there is currently very little reason for anyone to attack the western peloponnese pensinsula (a pity because peloponnesian war is the name of the map). the only (small) incentive that i can produce for invading eleans is to reduce the number of eleans neutrals to 1, but maybe this will unbalance the map slightly, without any great benefit.

why have u used an omega in the title instead of w? this turns the title into peloponnesian oar!

it'll be a good idea to have the inset show exactly the same area as the grey box: either give a curved left edge to the grey box or draw a straight left edge for the inset. the M and C in the grey box are much better than the 1 and 2 that were there before. what is the small symbol below the M in the grey box?

ian.

[Qwert]

what is the small symbol below the M in the grey box?

Its a symbol who show what these box present(Map inset down you have same symbol). I take these,like i present in IMperium Romanum map(Symbol for Rome Inset). Nobody have any complaining abouth that in these map,and i belive that here also will be no complaining.

why have u used an omega in the title instead of w? this turns the title into peloponnesian oar!

I dont know how in Ancient Grecce Letter write War or Peloponnesian

it seems that there is currently very little reason for anyone to attack the western peloponnese pensinsula (a pity because peloponnesian war is the name of the map). the only (small) incentive that i can produce for invading eleans is to reduce the number of eleans neutrals to 1, but maybe this will unbalance the map slightly, without any great benefit.

Honestly,you have many maps(who have objectives),that many territory stay no conquer,because people want to take objectives. I can not create ,gameplay where people need to take all peloponnesian peninsula(these only works where you have continents). In games where you dont have continents,primarly task is to take objectives.
Now in Europe 1914,people try to take objectives,and some territories stay no conquer, but people like that gameplay.

[iancanton]

what is the small symbol below the M in the grey box?

Its a symbol who show what these box present(Map inset down you have same symbol). I take these,like i present in IMperium Romanum map(Symbol for Rome Inset). Nobody have any complaining abouth that in these map,and i belive that here also will be no complaining.

the dots in imperium romanum work very well because they are so brightly-coloured. i saw the blue square symbol beside the word "inset" only after u told me. if it was bright green, then everyone would notice it!

ian.

[Qwert]

the dots in imperium romanum work very well because they are so brightly-coloured. i saw the blue square symbol beside the word "inset" only after u told me. if it was bright green, then everyone would notice it!

ian.

I dont quite follow you. What you dont notice?
People dont sugested any symbol for Inset,only say that these Box over these part of peninsula is enough to people see what present peninsula,im only add these symbol,to be similar to Imperium Romanum map.

[iancanton]

i had been reading this thread, so i knew that were was an inset and was not confused about this. however, i also saw the blue square symbol inside the grey shaded box on the map, below the M, but could not find out what it was: i thought it was a special bonus or something before u told me it had the same function as the alpes dots on imperium romanum. if u change the colour of the symbol to bright green (instead of blue - because the sea is also blue), then i'm sure that everyone will see it immediately and know that it refers to the inset.

why have u used an omega in the title instead of w? this turns the title into peloponnesian oar!

I dont know how in Ancient Grecce Letter write War or Peloponnesian

i've found a greek website which shows that the w sound in ancient greek was represented by the letter called digamma, which looks like F.

http://www.webtopos.gr/eng/languages/gr ... etters.htm

ian.

[Qwert]

You dont understand me ian,i say these symobl is in same way like symbol for Roma in Imperium romanum, but i can put some other colour(maybe gold,or yellow) to see better.

[Qwert]

New update-i put inset symbol to be in gold colour,i hope that now its ok ian?
Also i change Tittle,its no more in greek letters,its in english(its to complicted to searching for proper sentence)

Click image to enlarge.