BeNeLux [Quenched]

Forza AZ · Post by **Forza AZ** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:58 pm

RuS wrote:Maybe it's better to change the mountains between Brugse Ommeland and Zeeuws Vlaanderen into a creek (in real life called: 'Het Zwin') and between belgisch Limburg and Limburg in to the river 'de Maas', you can pull the Maas through going north, but just make it smaller or bridges across.

Problem with de Maas is that it won't block all of the border between Limburg and Belgisch Limburg. But maybe you can make the other part (in the North) into a wall or something like that.

RuS · Post by **RuS** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:10 pm

Forza AZ wrote:
RuS wrote:Maybe it's better to change the mountains between Brugse Ommeland and Zeeuws Vlaanderen into a creek (in real life called: 'Het Zwin') and between belgisch Limburg and Limburg in to the river 'de Maas', you can pull the Maas through going north, but just make it smaller or bridges across.
Problem with de Maas is that it won't block all of the border between Limburg and Belgisch Limburg. But maybe you can make the other part (in the North) into a wall or something like that.

I know, but it hasn't have to lie on exactly the same spot it does in real life, does it?
And it could be used as a border between limburg and de peel, going up north-east being the border of 'maaskant'. I know, it isn't that realistic, but it's better to do that to give mountains to one of the most flat area's in europe. (of course there will have to be one or two bridges to limburg (from another country in zuid-limburg)

Btw, de Schelde (river between antwerp and Oost-vlaanderen) isn't following his real route neither.

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:38 pm

I've try to change the "mountains" in Limburg for a river. But it won't work in the blue area.

And the " mountains" is just a non crossing border. So it could be a mountain in peoples mind or not...

I'm still working on the next update.

Grtz
MarVal
member of the Veroveraars Club

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:50 pm

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux.

UPDATE 05
Larger map :
(600x456)

(Click to reduce to mapsize 500x380)

Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- Shorter names for the countries in the West.
- All continents has texrures or an underlying image.
- New bridges across rivers and the sea.
- "Mountains" are thicker and larger.
- The legend is slightly bigger included the names.
- Attack route from Limburg to Liège.
- New look of the stars.
- De Kempen instead of Brugse Ommeland.
- No attack route from Zeeuws-Vl. to West-Vlaanderen.
- No attack route from Limburg to De Kempen and Belgisch Limburg.
- No attack route from West-Nederland to Hainaut.
- Oost-Nederland 2 extra armies.
- Zuid-Nederland 4 extra armies.

I shall work on the text Be Ne Lux on the three flags!

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

Grtz
MarVal
member of De Veroveraars Club

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:22 am

I think the bridges look a lot better.

Things to still be considered:
- Mountains could be a little clearer/more obvious.
- Title is still unclear, I think this could be improved.
- Blue territory may still be too hard to read blue numbers on, I guess we'll need to see how it looks when you test the XML. Maybe even just reduce the darkness of the army shadows.

dafranca · Post by **dafranca** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:13 am

MarVal,

Congratulation, your map is coming among very nice. You are applying what people tell you and your map is benefiting from it.

I still have one last point in playability:

Vlaanderen: you can not have more borders then bonus - this is the basic concept on playability. So the best solution is to add borders between De Kempen and two countries from Zuid-Nederland (Markizaat, De Peel). After you done that, you will have to decrease the bonus in Zuid-Nederland to +3.

La Wallonie: I think it should have only +5 bonuses... because if you hold this continent, you supposed to hold Luxemburg too. So it will be 6+1 bonus with only 3 borders. And if you own Belgisch Brabant too, you will have 6+1+2 bonus and only going to defend 3 borders

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:25 pm

dafranca wrote:MarVal,

Congratulation, your map is coming among very nice. You are applying what people tell you and your map is benefiting from it.

Thanks for the compliment.
I shall work on you're last points in playability and ofcourse the other suggestions that were mentioned by others members.

Grtz
MarVal

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:44 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Well I like the look of this map....

---- Also, you might want to consider moving or removing some of the crests.... ----

--Andy

Andy,

What are the crests?

Grtz
MarVal

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:45 pm

wait, there's a Benelux map AND a Netherlands map both in progress?? Seems like 90% of the maps people are working on are Europe or a fraction there-of.

Both this and Netherlands look really good - tell me what makes this one unique, and I'm on board.

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:02 pm

oaktown wrote:wait, there's a Benelux map AND a Netherlands map both in progress?? Seems like 90% of the maps people are working on are Europe or a fraction there-of.

Both this and Netherlands look really good - tell me what makes this one unique, and I'm on board.

This map makes it unique because the various / diverse of playabiltity (42 countries and 8 continents), history and nationality. And the map BeNelux is well-known by many people that are members of CC, because everyone knows Amsterdam, Bruxelles and Luxemburg City of the politics, vacations and many more. The diversity and gameplay of the map. Three monarchies countries that can be attacked / defend in different ways (42 countries and 8 continents).
The languages / cultures such as La Wallonie is French speaking and the east Germans, etc.
And its the map of The Dutch Language Forum.

I hope I can bring you on board.

Lone.prophet · Post by **Lone.prophet** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:03 pm

nice speech

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:05 pm

Lone.prophet wrote:nice speech

Thanks, but I must say I'm also a little bit jealous on you're map.
It looks good.

Grtz
MarVal

Lone.prophet · Post by **Lone.prophet** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:06 pm

i like both maps

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:15 pm

I like both maps as well, and I support any and all efforts to bring quality maps to this site - keep up the good work!

Perhaps the fact that you're working on similar geographic regions will push both of you to make your maps look even better.

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:06 pm

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux.

UPDATE 06
Larger map :
(600x456)

(Click to reduce to mapsize 500x380)

Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- A thin outline to the letters Be Ne Lux within the three flags.
- Army circles on Zuid-Holland (blue) are lighter blue.
- The army shade on the waddengebied is better now.
- A Monarchy border (non-crossing border) between: the Netherlands - Belgium and Belgium - Luxembourgh.
- New legend with the Monarchy border.
- No attack route from Markizaat to De Kempen and Antwerpen.
- Smaller coats of arms.
- La Wallonie 5 extra armies.
- Zuid-Nederland 3 extra armies.

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

Grtz
MarVal
member of De Veroveraars Club

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:23 pm

I like the changes, the whole map is looking pretty solid. I think some of the bonuses need adjusting though. We have Vlaanderen with a bonus of 4, but there are 5 bordering countries. Zuid-Nederland has a bonus of 3, but there are 4 bordering countries. Any reason for this? I think they could both go up one value.

RuS · Post by **RuS** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:40 pm

Have you thought about giving an extra bonus when you've got a whole 'monarchie' (not luxembourg off course). Would make the gameplay even more interresting. And, happy you chose a very good solution for the borders.

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:00 am

RuS wrote:Have you thought about giving an extra bonus when you've got a whole 'monarchie' (not luxembourg off course). Would make the gameplay even more interresting. And, happy you chose a very good solution for the borders.

Yeah, the map looks solid now.
And about an extra bonus we must wait what others think about it. Maybe I wil put it in the next update. So we can discuss about it.

Grtz
MarVal
member of De Veroveraars Club

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:08 am

KEYOGI wrote:I like the changes, the whole map is looking pretty solid. I think some of the bonuses need adjusting though. We have Vlaanderen with a bonus of 4, but there are 5 bordering countries. Zuid-Nederland has a bonus of 3, but there are 4 bordering countries. Any reason for this? I think they could both go up one value.

i agree

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:02 pm

I would suggest you:
Change the De kempen - De Peel route to De kempen - Markizaat. It would make De Peel a non border country, and so the bonus of 3 would be ok.
Extend the mountains near Hainaut to block the routes to Ardennen and Brabant. But this would make yellow + gray act a bit more like one continent with a sub continent. The full one is 8 countries and 5 borders... so 6? Giving the gray area a bonus of 2, bonus of 4 would be sufficient to yellow.

3 minor things:
1) The name of red area is difficult to read in the legend, maybe you can test white in both legend and map (only legend would be strange).
2) Waddengebied is to near to Texel. Can you delete that island there, or at least move it a bit far?
3) How about move Belgium shield a bit to south?

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:10 pm

Marvaddin wrote:3) How about move Belgium shield a bit to south?

Marvaddin, Thanks again for you're suggestions. But what do you mean about the above quote?

Grtz
MarVal
member of De Veroveraars Club

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:17 pm

Move the Belgian also called "coat of arms" a bit to the bottom.

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:39 pm

Oké, I will do that.

Grtz
MarVal

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:16 pm

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux.

UPDATE 07
Larger map :
(600x456)

(Click to reduce to mapsize 500x380)

Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- Coat of arms of Belgium moved a bit down.
- The borders of the countries has better outlines.
- Attack route from Markizaat to Antwerpen.
- No attack route from De Kempen to De Peel.
(so Vlaanderen can still have 4 extra armies and Zuid-Holland 3 extra armies)

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

Grtz
MarVal
member of De Veroveraars Club

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:47 pm

Are the bonus armies for the continents oké for so far?
Our must their be a change in the attack routes of these continents?

Let me know what youre suggestions are..

Grtz
MarVal

BeNeLux [Quenched]

UPDATE 5

UPDATE 06

UPDATE 07