BeNeLux [Quenched]

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:29 am

RuS wrote:
Wisse wrote:
and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france
I ment 'Bruxelles' by that, why not just Brussel (it lays completely surrounded by 'Vlaanderen', logical, no?)

eum brussel/bruxelles is also 1/2 france

so he have to chose

RuS · Post by **RuS** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:37 am

Wisse wrote:
RuS wrote:
Wisse wrote:
and rus thats because 1/2 of belgium is france
I ment 'Bruxelles' by that, why not just Brussel (it lays completely surrounded by 'Vlaanderen', logical, no?)
eum brussel/bruxelles is also 1/2 france so he have to chose

I don't care, I will not give it to the Wallons, with their fake news and all...

:D;)

VDB · Post by **VDB** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:37 am

Brussels is not part of Vlaams Brabant, nor is it part of Brabant wallon (which erronuously is called simply "wallon" on the Benelux map. It is an independant city-region within Belgium with it's own gouvernment.
Contrary to the surrounding Vlaams Brabant and Brabant wallon, it is an officially bilingual french-dutch speaking region.

By the way: PLEASE USE THE NAME "BRUSSELS" in stead of "Bruxelles" on the map. "Bruxelles" is only one of two official and equaly valid names and using only the french version might seriously offend some Dutch speaking Belgian players on this forum.

I know maps are supposed to be practical, rather than pollitically correct, but it would be sad to see this map give a wrong impression of pollitical reality in the Benelux (for the same reason i would prefer to see you guys drop the orange baxkgrounds, which are an exclusive Dutch thing and have nothing to do with Belgium or Luxemburg. Nice idea for the dutch map, but inapropriate for a benelux map.)

dafranca · Post by **dafranca** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:45 am

Marvaddin wrote:Very few changes about playability. In general lines, its all the same, including Vlaanderen being the worst wasteland in all CC maps. Those changes make it just a bit better, it still needs an urgent bonus upgrade. About playability, I suggest you to split Zuid en Oost Nederland (maybe Zuid Nederland and Oost Nederland, lol) in two areas, each one at one side of that river. In this case, I also suggest:
1) Block Limburg to Belgisch Limburg route.
2) Make Walcheren an island, so it doesnt connect to other continents, even more to 2 continents.
3) Add route Markizaat to Zuid Holland.
4) Remove Waddengebied to Texel route.
5) Remove Dikrech to Neufchateau route (I still dislike it).

Those sugestion to Marvaddin will improve alot the gameability.
In addition to Marvaddin's sugestion:
6) Add non-crossing in Brugse Ommeland to Xeeuws- Vlaanderen.
7) After you remove Waddengebied to Texel route, make Noord-Nederland +2 bonus only.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:03 pm

VDB wrote:Brussels is not part of Vlaams Brabant, nor is it part of Brabant wallon (which erronuously is called simply "wallon" on the Benelux map. It is an independant city-region within Belgium with it's own gouvernment.
Contrary to the surrounding Vlaams Brabant and Brabant wallon, it is an officially bilingual french-dutch speaking region.

By the way: PLEASE USE THE NAME "BRUSSELS" in stead of "Bruxelles" on the map. "Bruxelles" is only one of two official and equaly valid names and using only the french version might seriously offend some Dutch speaking Belgian players on this forum.

I know maps are supposed to be practical, rather than pollitically correct, but it would be sad to see this map give a wrong impression of pollitical reality in the Benelux (for the same reason i would prefer to see you guys drop the orange baxkgrounds, which are an exclusive Dutch thing and have nothing to do with Belgium or Luxemburg. Nice idea for the dutch map, but inapropriate for a benelux map.)

Actually, as far as I know Brussels (English) is internationally knows as Bruxelles and Belgium as Belgique. I don't know why the French version is used. Even if you check Euronews they use Bruxelles. Maybe Euronews is controlled by the Walloon? *lol* I prefer Bruxelles though...it sounds more chic. Sorry about that Flemish friends.

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:08 pm

just make in the legend "brussel/bruxelles" and everyone is happy

and the orange things aren't just dutch, you know we don't use orange much. only with sport and queensday, i like it on the map

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:11 pm

Wisse wrote:just make in the legend "brussel/bruxelles" and everyone is happy

and the orange things aren't just dutch, you know we don't use orange much. only with sport and queensday, i like it on the map

And why not Bruxelles/Brussel? :p

onbekende · Post by **onbekende** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:12 pm

Because 60% speak dutch in Belgium

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:14 pm

onbekende wrote:Because 60% speak dutch in Belgium

But that's Bruxelles...I think 50.1% speak French there right?

I am kidding guys.

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:14 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:
Wisse wrote:just make in the legend "brussel/bruxelles" and everyone is happy

and the orange things aren't just dutch, you know we don't use orange much. only with sport and queensday, i like it on the map
And why not Bruxelles/Brussel? :p

omg

it doesn't matter!

onbekende · Post by **onbekende** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:17 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:
onbekende wrote:Because 60% speak dutch in Belgium
But that's Bruxelles...I think 50.1% speak French there right? I am kidding guys.

too many If you ask me, but that is besides the point

I have no suggestions/comments currently for the map

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:24 pm

Jokes apart I got interested in the subject and did some research. Apparently while 60% of the people in Belgium speak Dutch, 85% of the people in Brussels speak French so maybe that's why Bruxelles is used more frequently!

onbekende · Post by **onbekende** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:27 pm

Bruxelles is used so much because the government there speak French, and normally they need to be able to talk dutch too, but they do with such an accent, everyone knows they are french, not happens the other way around, we Flemish can sometimes speak fluent French

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:30 pm

Belgium fascinates me. I have been there and it is extremely beautiful. I also loved its beer and chocolates.

I think the city I liked most was Bruges. Sorry...I know I am going off topic.

onbekende · Post by **onbekende** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:32 pm

off topic : bigger thread, which I like

Brugges you say, the Venice of the north

happysadfun · Post by **happysadfun** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:33 pm

No, Bruges is the Venice of the Middle. Stockholm is the Venice of the North.

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:28 pm

Below the latest development of the map BeNeLux.

UPDATE 04
Larger map :
(600x456)

(Click to reduce to mapsize 500x380)

Some suggestions that were mentioned:

- Zuid- en Oost-Nederland seperated into Zuid-Nederland and Oost-Nederland.
- Oost-Nederland 3 extra armies.
- Zuid-Nederland 5 extra armies
- No attack route from Limburg to Belgisch Limburg.
- No attack route from Walcheren to Markizaat and Antwerpen.
- Attack route from Markizaat to Zuid-Holland.
- No attack route from Waddengebied to Texel.
- No attack route from Dikrech to Neufchateau.
- No attack route from Brugse Ommeland to Zeeuws-Vlaanderen.
- Noord-Nederland 2 extra armies.
- New Legenda and BeNeLux textures in the three Flags.

So let us know what U think about the map BeNeLux so far.

By the way, what shall we do with Bruxelles. Will it be Bruxelles or Brussels. I think Ruben Cassar has a point, because the map is for everybody and everybody know the name Bruxelles instead of Brussels.

And in my next update I will add De Kempen instead of Brugse Ommeland. De Kempen lies between Antwerpen and Belgisch Limburg and is connected to Markizaat and De Peel, but NOT connected to Vlaams Brabant.

Grtz
MarVal
member of De Veroveraars Club

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:35 pm

I think the playability of this map has been good for some time, so my comments only concern the visual appeal of the map.

I'm not a fan of the bridges, I don't think they really go with the rest of the map.

I think the Be Ne Lux title within the flags needs to be improved. Even if you just add a thin outline to the letters to give it better contrast.

Lastly, I'm not sure how well blue numbers will show up on the Zuid-Nederland continent. I think it looks quite nice how it is, but a lighter blue is going to be needed.

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:03 pm

KEYOGI wrote:I'm not a fan of the bridges, I don't think they really go with the rest of the map.

Do you have or anybody else an suggestion or solution to make the bridges more nicer?

Grtz
MarVal
member of De Veroveraars Club

Lone.prophet · Post by **Lone.prophet** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:05 pm

the army shade on the wadden groep isnt very visible

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:07 pm

Lone.prophet wrote:the army shade on the wadden groep isnt very visible

Yeah, you're right. I will fixed it. Thanks.

Grtz
MarVal
member of De Veroveraars Club

CaraLucia · Post by **CaraLucia** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:26 pm

North Netherlands (groningen and Friesland) white on dark red

and the Waddeneilanden are still a strange area

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:21 pm

Well I like the look of this map....

One of my main concerns...names and placement....especially the West area. Is there any way you can abbreviate? You will surely have to abbreviate these for the Drop Down list, so why not on the map? I don't know of any proper abbreviations, but Z. Vlaanderen, G. Overflakkee, etc. Right now, the long names are plaguing the map.
I noticed that green and pink have a texture...or at least an underlying image, but none of the others, why? I say do it for all of them.
Regarding the font, you might want to look into making the names bigger in size.
Definitely get rid of those bridges across water you currently have...the visuals aren't appealing. Look into something else that could visually represent a bridge.
I'm alright with the mountains...but I suggest making them a little thicker and larger on the map. They almost get lost in the chaos. (Yellow is in need of abbreviation also).
Consider making the legend slightly bigger, as it feels small.
Also, the west area feels like it's in chaos. Could you make the Benelux title a little more clearer? Also, you might want to consider moving or removing some of the crests....
The stars look a little oddly shaped...look into a different visual representation there.

Hope to comment more later.

--Andy

dafranca · Post by **dafranca** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:37 pm

You need ajust same bonus:
- Oost-Nederland needs only +2 bonus
- Zuid-Nederland needs only +4 bonus

I also think you should open borders from Liége to Limburg for better playability. Because if you open it you can move the army better... A good map you can attack from South to North... You map is kind keep, the north away from the south. So if you open it, Will make thinks better.
It is up to you. but if you don't open it make Zuid-Nederland needs only +3 bonus

RuS · Post by **RuS** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:21 pm

Maybe it's better to change the mountains between Brugse Ommeland and Zeeuws Vlaanderen into a creek (in real life called: 'Het Zwin') and between belgisch Limburg and Limburg in to the river 'de Maas', you can pull the Maas through going north, but just make it smaller or bridges across.