Unofficial Clan Ladder - Updated May 17th-2009

[hulmey]

I've never seen a problem with it either. We, in G1, always do home/away games and are of the opinion that the home games are, in fact, supposed to have advantages. You can use whatever settings you want (even if it means freestyle or flat rate which take away the advantage of being a "home" game).

freestyle is a no no as well. Its just unfair. Maybe soccer teams can start making their pitches longer to suit their style, or wider even. There has to be rules and standard gameplay otherwise its just not fair!

The untouchables doesnt mind playing on any map (as long as it isnt "beta"). We try and reduce the amount of luck is involved in the game and FLAT is pure luck. Dont forget luck can go both ways.

[Bones2484]

I've never seen a problem with it either. We, in G1, always do home/away games and are of the opinion that the home games are, in fact, supposed to have advantages. You can use whatever settings you want (even if it means freestyle or flat rate which take away the advantage of being a "home" game).

freestyle is a no no as well. Its just unfair. Maybe soccer teams can start making their pitches longer to suit their style, or wider even. There has to be rules and standard gameplay otherwise its just not fair!

The untouchables doesnt mind playing on any map (as long as it isnt "beta"). We try and reduce the amount of luck is involved in the game and FLAT is pure luck. Dont forget luck can go both ways.

That's exactly my point, Hulmey. Why would any clan want to create a game (as their home game) where it comes down to complete luck?

Take freestyle, for example. If a home team wants to make their game freestyle, they join the game FIRST and the visiting team thus gets the advantage. It's stupid for someone to want to play freestyle, but that doesn't mean it should be disallowed.

The same thing goes for Flat Rate. If a home team wants to diminish their game to luck instead of skill, they should be free to do so.

I acknowledge your soccer analogy works, but why not extend it into baseball? Each park is different and teams try to build themselves around their home park to give them inherent advantages when they are home.

These two examples actually LOWER the chances that the home team will win and just because your opponent wants to make these games does not mean that you would have to for your home games... so I don't see how any smart person couldn't be in favor of their opponents wanting such games included. You ARE smart, aren't you?

[hulmey]

I've never seen a problem with it either. We, in G1, always do home/away games and are of the opinion that the home games are, in fact, supposed to have advantages. You can use whatever settings you want (even if it means freestyle or flat rate which take away the advantage of being a "home" game).

freestyle is a no no as well. Its just unfair. Maybe soccer teams can start making their pitches longer to suit their style, or wider even. There has to be rules and standard gameplay otherwise its just not fair!

The untouchables doesnt mind playing on any map (as long as it isnt "beta"). We try and reduce the amount of luck is involved in the game and FLAT is pure luck. Dont forget luck can go both ways.

That's exactly my point, Hulmey. Why would any clan want to create a game (as their home game) where it comes down to complete luck?

Take freestyle, for example. If a home team wants to make their game freestyle, they join the game FIRST and the visiting team thus gets the advantage. It's stupid for someone to want to play freestyle, but that doesn't mean it should be disallowed.

The same thing goes for Flat Rate. If a home team wants to diminish their game to luck instead of skill, they should be free to do so.

I acknowledge your soccer analogy works, but why not extend it into baseball? Each park is different and teams try to build themselves around their home park to give them inherent advantages when they are home.

These two examples actually LOWER the chances that the home team will win and just because your opponent wants to make these games does not mean that you would have to for your home games... so I don't see how any smart person couldn't be in favor of their opponents wanting such games included. You ARE smart, aren't you?

i havent got a clue about baseball, so i cant comment really. But all sports have standard rules and regulations of some sort and clan wars shouldnt be any different!

HOme team will always have a huge advantage in CC by getting to pick the map and the settings. The only 2 imy lan doesnt like is freestyle (not so much) and FLAT rate. Flat rate as stated is pure luck. I would never suggest someone plays this setting in doubles, singles and or triples!

[jpcloet]

Would prefer to have the Clan Challenge Limitations discussion amongst the CLA forum, clearly there are opinions to be had. Hulmey, I'll review your clan right away.

Confirmed, you have 1 for sure issue and 1 that belongs to a clan that competed in my LODEDI tournament but may be going extinct. I'll try and confirm with a member in that clan.

[BaldAdonis]

Flat rate as stated is pure luck. I would never suggest someone plays this setting in doubles, singles and or triples!

Doesn't that make it a good strategy, if you think your opponents might be better than you?
Sure there should be standards: you have to play the games on CC, and the outcome of the challenge has to be decided by the games. But after that, people can work out any other restrictions on their own.

Maybe we should convince all the clans to institute a "one or more flat rate" policy. Then you won't need to be bothered by playing the most popular team game setting, because you won't be playing anyone!

[daydream]

Just look at the national teams like Down Under and Team Germany. Seul has been asked by jpcloet to leave Team Germany if he wishes to stay with the Monkeys, yet Neph and lt.pie (both members of the Sheep Sodomizers Brigade) are already in this CLA thing. Last but not least we're making a big deal already about the new clan shizzle even though the admins have noted that it might take a while before they implement all kinds of changes.

I suggest we think first and try to blow this out of proportions later.

i suppose the idea is that clans will be duking it out fairly regularly in the near future - what happens if team germany and the monkeys are due for an encounter? as far as i know the 'sheep sodomizers brigade' is a non-competitive clan. that said i've never seen team germany in action either.. do you know if they are competitive?

i as leader of team germany can very clearly stat that no, we are not a competitive clan by CC clan standards. we will occasionally be challenging other nations, just like the aussies (who have just challenged us). we will not be challenging (or accepting challenges) from any CC clans, we will just be fighting under the banner of our national flag against other nations, be they clans, usergroups, or just a bunch of people on CC from the same country, like the dutch we beat.
if this is against the CLA "rules", then you will need to ban the down under usergoup as well. This will affect nearly every clan on that scoreboard, i am certain.
for any other questions regarding team germany, feel free to PM me or Seul himself, since this is obviously about him.

[jiminski]

Would prefer to have the Clan Challenge Limitations discussion amongst the CLA forum, clearly there are opinions to be had...
.....

What is all this?


Can i have some input from Snr Twill please.

Are we to believe that under the new clan structure the site will impose what settings and maps we play in Challenges?

[jpcloet]

What is all this?

Can i have some input from Snr Twill please.

Are we to believe that under the new clan structure the site will impose what settings and maps we play in Challenges?

This is getting off topic of the ladder. The discussion is around "generally accepted challenge limitations" it seems right now and was not meant to be here but within the CLA forums. I don't think anything will be imposed to be honest. One of the goals of CLA is get a general agreement on what clans can choose as their maps and settings. Several clans have pointed out the TSM's lack a flexibility with their restrictions, even leading to challenges being cancelled. If you limit the games settings, you may not have many clans that want to face you.

On a side note, Hulmey has corrected his membership issue and The Untouchables have been accepted into the CLA. He just needs to pm me the second member he wishes to add.

[jiminski]

What is all this?

Can i have some input from Snr Twill please.

Are we to believe that under the new clan structure the site will impose what settings and maps we play in Challenges?

This is getting off topic of the ladder. The discussion is around "generally accepted challenge limitations" it seems right now and was not meant to be here but within the CLA forums. I don't think anything will be imposed to be honest. One of the goals of CLA is get a general agreement on what clans can choose as their maps and settings. Several clans have pointed out the TSM's lack a flexibility with their restrictions, even leading to challenges being cancelled. If you limit the games settings, you may not have many clans that want to face you.

On a side note, Hulmey has corrected his membership issue and The Untouchables have been accepted into the CLA. He just needs to pm me the second member he wishes to add.

why are you stirring that up again Ocelot? You do not understand what happened in the cancelled challenge and i am certainly not willing to rake over that again to educate you.

Are you banding together in CLA to ostracise The Monki's ? It seems so to me.. even including those i considered friends.

if that is the case I will certainly not be playing any part in your endeavour. If that inevitably means not playing clan challenges then i shall simply leave the system and play for fun instead, heheh i remember fun.

[jpcloet]

Someone's a little defensive. TSM has been invited to the CLA, just waiting on the 1 clan requirement to be met. I'm sorry if you're offended by my comments, however, this is a group looking to help clans move forward. This insn't the "Let's pick on the Monkeys Club". Any clan that plays against you or decides not to play against you is their own decision.

Your decision to not join in the discussion is yours and yours alone. Other clans see the value in this and have committed to the 1 clan rule and to helping clans advance. Another member will likely be added tomorrow as well.

[jiminski]

Some
one's a little defensive. TSM has been invited to the CLA, just waiting on the 1 clan requirement to be met. I'm sorry if you're offended by my comments, however, this is a group looking to help clans move forward. This insn't the "Let's pick on the Monkeys Club". Any clan that plays against you or decides not to play against you is their own decision.

Your decision to not join in the discussion is yours and yours alone. Other clans see the value in this and have committed to the 1 clan rule and to helping clans advance. Another member will likely be added tomorrow as well.

I agree defensive Ocelot! But you began the debate and the backhanded criticism of our methods and set-up. Now you say you are not willing to allow me the space to clarify the position as it is off-topic.

The point is.. is CLA going to be a place which decides, by influencing policy, that we are not allowed to play the way we want? (this is how you are making it seem) Or are you just moaning about us for no good reason and with no real authority?

It is an important piece of information.

[daydream]

Someone's a little defensive. TSM has been invited to the CLA, just waiting on the 1 clan requirement to be met. I'm sorry if you're offended by my comments, however, this is a group looking to help clans move forward. This insn't the "Let's pick on the Monkeys Club". Any clan that plays against you or decides not to play against you is their own decision.

Your decision to not join in the discussion is yours and yours alone. Other clans see the value in this and have committed to the 1 clan rule and to helping clans advance. Another member will likely be added tomorrow as well.

i am not a monki, so i can hardly be defensive here. i am just explaining team germanys stance in all of this: we are not competitive, and therefore there should be no problem with your one clan rule for seulessliathan. thank you for your time.

[Juan_Bottom]

Well this sucks.......
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60854

I take issue with the one competative clan rule. What about nationality clans? Like the American Dominatoors or Canadian Clashers? Shouldn't these types of clans be exempt? Perhaps they could evolve into only challanging each other?

[jiminski]

this new CLA is going to try to make the Monki's fall into line, we are the most up front clan there is. if you accept the challenge all the rules are there to see. Ha if you make the bloody challenge you should know even more!

and we are now the bad guys.. because someone reneged, thanks for bringing that up ocelot! really classy! .. and now we will be in effect black-balled! thank you chaps! real fun.

[hulmey]

this new CLA is going to try to make the Monki's fall into line, we are the most up front clan there is. if you accept the challenge all the rules are there to see. Ha if you make the bloody challenge you should know even more!

and we are now the bad guys.. and now we will be black-balled! thank you chaps! real fun.

Having just joined the CLA. I think its a great idea and i ask you jim that you do cool down! I understand where you are coming from and im in your corner here. The CLA would not be the same without the monki's in it.

[Juan_Bottom]

Flat rate as stated is pure luck. I would never suggest someone plays this setting in doubles, singles and or triples!

Doesn't that make it a good strategy, if you think your opponents might be better than you?
Sure there should be standards: you have to play the games on CC, and the outcome of the challenge has to be decided by the games. But after that, people can work out any other restrictions on their own.

Maybe we should convince all the clans to institute a "one or more flat rate" policy. Then you won't need to be bothered by playing the most popular team game setting, because you won't be playing anyone!

Here's an idea.... lets not tell the clans what to do! Let them sort it out during challenges, otherwise, why would anyone want to be part of this ladder? I'd sooner quite my clan than have them or anyone tell me what type of games I'm going to play.
& I hate escalating, for the same reason that Hulmey hates flate rate. Once the games gone a few rounds, cards are the only thing that matter any more.

And what is up with this ladder anyway? It seems very off to me. Is that #10 Empire the new Empire clan that hasn't gone through any challenges yet? At least, as far as I know they haven't. And is it just a coincidence that the clan #1 is also the clan that the ladder-creator is in?

And if you're using back-logged clan challenges for your figure-ing, why leave so many out exactly? You could always PM clan leaders if you're unsure about who's done what.

Anyway, I strongly dislike the ladder system, and prefer a points system, but I'll support the ranking system anyway.

[hulmey]

Flat rate as stated is pure luck. I would never suggest someone plays this setting in doubles, singles and or triples!

Doesn't that make it a good strategy, if you think your opponents might be better than you?
Sure there should be standards: you have to play the games on CC, and the outcome of the challenge has to be decided by the games. But after that, people can work out any other restrictions on their own.

Maybe we should convince all the clans to institute a "one or more flat rate" policy. Then you won't need to be bothered by playing the most popular team game setting, because you won't be playing anyone!

Here's an idea.... lets not tell the clans what to do! Let them sort it out during challenges, otherwise, why would anyone want to be part of this ladder? I'd sooner quite my clan than have them or anyone tell me what type of games I'm going to play.
& I hate escalating, for the same reason that Hulmey hates flate rate. Once the games gone a few rounds, cards are the only thing that matter any more.
lol...escalating isnt luck. And believe me, play against any member of my clan and you wont see cashs going past 10!!

And what is up with this ladder anyway? It seems very off to me. Is that #10 Empire the new Empire clan that hasn't gone through any challenges yet? At least, as far as I know they haven't. And is it just a coincidence that the clan #1 is also the clan that the ladder-creator is in?
read up..the ladder creator is in LOD

And if you're using back-logged clan challenges for your figure-ing, why leave so many out exactly? You could always PM clan leaders if you're unsure about who's done what.
maybe this should be looked into, but if your not in the CLA, you wont have a voice

Anyway, I strongly dislike the ladder system, and prefer a points system, but I'll support the ranking system anyway.

[jiminski]

this new CLA is going to try to make the Monki's fall into line, we are the most up front clan there is. if you accept the challenge all the rules are there to see. Ha if you make the bloody challenge you should know even more!

and we are now the bad guys.. and now we will be black-balled! thank you chaps! real fun.

Having just joined the CLA. I think its a great idea and i ask you jim that you do cool down! I understand where you are coming from and im in your corner here. The CLA would not be the same without the monki's in it.

why did he bring up the failed clan challenge Hulmey? why single our settings out for criticism!!?
it is a sore subject about which i am very unhappy. Unhappy about the way many people (friends) rounded upon us!
we were ganged up upon by our closest clans! It was none of their business and they were not aware of the reality of the situation. More, they did not care about it! they had their own agenda to push! The result was that any possibility of diplomacy was shattered!

We are and were in the process of evolving to include new games and settings, this has made me not wish to do that and remove myself entirely!
well done, if you want us not to play any other clans and fade.. excellent job, you are well on the way.

thanks.

[hulmey]

this new CLA is going to try to make the Monki's fall into line, we are the most up front clan there is. if you accept the challenge all the rules are there to see. Ha if you make the bloody challenge you should know even more!

and we are now the bad guys.. and now we will be black-balled! thank you chaps! real fun.

Having just joined the CLA. I think its a great idea and i ask you jim that you do cool down! I understand where you are coming from and im in your corner here. The CLA would not be the same without the monki's in it.

why did he bring up the failed clan challenge Hulmey? why single our settings out for criticism!!?
it is a sore subject about which i am very unhappy. Unhappy about the way many people (friends) rounded upon us!
we were ganged up upon by every clan. It was none of their business and they were not aware of the reality of the situation. More, they did not care about it! they had their own agenda to push! The result was that any possibility of diplomacy was shattered!

We are and were in the process of evolving to include new games and settings, this has made me not wish to do that and remove myself entirely!
well done, if you want us not to play any other clans and fade.. excellent job, you are well on the way.

thanks.

I dont think he meant it like mate. He mentioned cancellations but not in a bad spirited way. These things happen and i respect your clan for sticking to its guns on the matter. It shows balls and that you wont be bullied. I'd hate to see the monkis fade coz you got a great number of Stirling players and i respect you guys as much as THOTA. Im not sure if you remember how much stick they got for the points rule.(cant play them if you have less than 1800 pts).

So. i suggest that you make sure that all your members dont belong to another competitive clan and get your arse in here (CLA).

[Juan_Bottom]

lol...escalating isnt luck. And believe me, play against any member of my clan and you wont see cashs going past 10!!

Well, I don't think that flate rate/no cards is all luck either. Agree to disagree right?

maybe this should be looked into, but if your not in the CLA, you wont have a voice

We're working on it, but why would we want to join into a system where we have no control? I don't mind joining at the bottom of the ladder, but F any system that tells my clan what games or clans they can play. This looks(on the surface) like a bunch of big fish sitting around making rules for everyone else... go figure that they are rules that work best for the ones making them.

read up..the ladder creator is in LOD

Someone else said it, I was just echoing.

[jpcloet]

And what is up with this ladder anyway? It seems very off to me. Is that #10 Empire the new Empire clan that hasn't gone through any challenges yet? At least, as far as I know they haven't.

I believe the new clan is "Eternal Empire" versus the ladder clan of "Empire". Some clan names are similar and I'm not too sure about this one either. This ladder was posted a few days ago in the CLA forums and no one noticed any issues that I'm aware of.

The leaders are as follows:

Eternal Empire InsomniaRed

Empire Lubawski

Hopefully that clarifies the 2 clans as being different.

[hulmey]

lol...escalating isnt luck. And believe me, play against any member of my clan and you wont see cashs going past 10!!

Well, I don't think that flate rate/no cards is all luck either. Agree to disagree right?
no cards is great. but flat rate is luckie. in dubz game escalating its always better to wait b4 you cash unless the opposition has a bonus! But with flat your done for, espcially if u only got a red set. you got less control and are at the mercy of the luckie draw. The dice screw you enough as it is!

maybe this should be looked into, but if your not in the CLA, you wont have a voice

We're working on it, but why would we want to join into a system where we have no control? I don't mind joining at the bottom of the ladder, but F any system that tells my clan what games or clans they can play. This looks(on the surface) like a bunch of big fish sitting around making rules for everyone else... go figure that they are rules that work best for the ones making them.
of course you can play any team you want to me but if they arent in the CLA then it might not go towards the ladder. if you need any help or advice just ask me. Im in love with clans and its the only reason why i still hang around CC

read up..the ladder creator is in LOD

Someone else said it, I was just echoing.

[Juan_Bottom]

It certainly confused me! I was only aware of one "Empire."

if you need any help or advice just ask me.

Will do!

[jpcloet]

We're working on it, but why would we want to join into a system where we have no control? I don't mind joining at the bottom of the ladder, but F any system that tells my clan what games or clans they can play. This looks(on the surface) like a bunch of big fish sitting around making rules for everyone else... go figure that they are rules that work best for the ones making them.

No one is creating rules, people are reading more into this than there is. No one will tell you what game you have to play or cannot play. We are working on generally accepted guidelines which hopefully are very flexible. Clans can continue doing what your doing now, nothing has changed.

And you don't join at the bottom of the ladder on the ELO ranking system. You enter at 1000 points plus whatever result happens in your first challenge. I didn't post the point values on the ladder for various reasons.

Did no one see the "Unofficial" part of the topic heading?

[jiminski]

I dont think he meant it like mate. He mentioned cancellations but not in a bad spirited way. These things happen and i respect your clan for sticking to its guns on the matter. It shows balls and that you wont be bullied. I'd hate to see the monkis fade coz you got a great number of Stirling players and i respect you guys as much as THOTA. Im not sure if you remember how much stick they got for the points rule.(cant play them if you have less than 1800 pts).

So. i suggest that you make sure that all your members dont belong to another competitive clan and get your arse in here (CLA).

Not sure how else he could mean it Hulmey!

...
Several clans have pointed out the TSM's lack a flexibility with their restrictions, even leading to challenges being cancelled. If you limit the games settings, you may not have many clans that want to face you....

Translation: "the reason we are talking about settings is that the members of CLA don't like yours and we will band together to ensure you do not get a game if you don't change... you have already had a cancellation, take it as a warning, muahahahah.. i am the mighty ocelot " heheh that last part is poetic licence.

not much of a leap though is it!?
Our settings are not so very different from many others, they have just been made an issue out of as we are completely up-front about them!

I am not sure how we can possibly join CLA under the circumstances but i will still post here if i deem it necessary.