Halloween Hollows [Quenched]

[cairnswk]

My turn to have a "period on the foundry floor"

ugh, we can't have that. Let's play it by Halloween.



If no rhyme, can you at least lose the hyphen after the parenthesis - having both is redundant, and it breaks the sentence up in a way you don't intend.

No worries with the grammar correction. Thanks for the stamp.
* Cairns goes searching * now where's that gimil character? I hope we can be playing it just before Halloween.

[yeti_c]

Cairns - I'm a bit concerned with the +9 neutral...

Me & Forza have just been discussing the bonus structure for the spider...

And it seems that you want

Spider = +1 autodeploy.
Spider +3 territories = +1.
Spider +6/9/12/15/18/21 still = only +1.

So in essence you're getting a +2 at best for holding the spider.

Now that seems very low for killing a +9...

I (along with most people in this thread - and I think Oaktown who may want to recheck his stamp in light of this) thought that the structure was
Spider+3 = +1
Spider+6 = +2
Spider+9 = +3
Spider+12 = +4
Spider+15 = +5
Spider+18 = +6
Spider+21 = +7

Which is entirely different - and really does sound worth a +9 neutral.

C.

[cairnswk]

Cairns - I'm a bit concerned with the +9 neutral...

Me & Forza have just been discussing the bonus structure for the spider...

And it seems that you want

Spider = +1 autodeploy.
Spider +3 territories = +1.
Spider +6/9/12/15/18/21 still = only +1.

So in essence you're getting a +2 at best for holding the spider.

Now that seems very low for killing a +9...

I (along with most people in this thread - and I think Oaktown who may want to recheck his stamp in light of this) thought that the structure was
Spider+3 = +1
Spider+6 = +2
Spider+9 = +3
Spider+12 = +4
Spider+15 = +5
Spider+18 = +6
Spider+21 = +7

Which is entirely different - and really does sound worth a +9 neutral.

C.

Understand what you are syaing C., but the gist of placing 9 neutrals there was so that the spider would lengthen the rounds before being taken in 1v1 and small games, and that is wouldn't create an immediate/early quick bonus/es.

The below is the idea that i wanted, which is where i thought we were on the page with.

And it seems that you want

Spider = +1 autodeploy.
Spider +3 territories = +1.
Spider +6/9/12/15/18/21 still = only +1.

So in essence you're getting a +2 at best for holding the spider.

[yeti_c]

Yeah - so killing a 9 for a +2 is just going to take the spider out of the game.

C.

[cairnswk]

Yeah - so killing a 9 for a +2 is just going to take the spider out of the game.

C.

So what the hell do you want it to be ?

[ZeakCytho]

I was under the impression that the spider bonus would work this way:

I (along with most people in this thread - and I think Oaktown who may want to recheck his stamp in light of this) thought that the structure was
Spider+3 = +1
Spider+6 = +2
Spider+9 = +3
Spider+12 = +4
Spider+15 = +5
Spider+18 = +6
Spider+21 = +7

As I read the map now, that part of the legend is very ambiguous. I assumed it meant what Yeti quoted above, but a valid read of it is also what you intended.

IMO, the quote above is a better system than what's in place now.

[Night Strike]

Yeah, I thought it was the scaled values also. If you only want the +1, there needs to only be 4 or 5 neutrals (since 1 is auto-deploy and the other is free-deploy).

[cairnswk]

I was under the impression that the spider bonus would work this way:

I (along with most people in this thread - and I think Oaktown who may want to recheck his stamp in light of this) thought that the structure was
Spider+3 = +1
Spider+6 = +2
Spider+9 = +3
Spider+12 = +4
Spider+15 = +5
Spider+18 = +6
Spider+21 = +7

As I read the map now, that part of the legend is very ambiguous. I assumed it meant what Yeti quoted above, but a valid read of it is also what you intended.

IMO, the quote above is a better system than what's in place now.

Yeah, I thought it was the scaled values also. If you only want the +1, there needs to only be 4 or 5 neutrals (since 1 is auto-deploy and the other is free-deploy).

Here is why i wanted it to be +1 for 3 & spider only regardless of how many you terts you held in the web....

For someone getting the spider, there is every likehood that will happen in later rounds in the game with 9 neutrals. This means that someone may already have several spider-web terts, which means that if you hold 9 terts, you'll automatically +3 plus the autodeploy +1 for spider. This would give that person severe advantage with another +4 for gaining 1 tert.
There is also the fact that not all the continents border the spider web. Therefore someone who gains Witch's Way will have to then conquer two or three terts to get close to the spider.
For those already bordering the spider, the +1 incentive is small and would mean that other players might have a chance at attacking the spider to take it way from the original holder.

I say +1 for 3 plus spider only.
And i will re-word the legend to state that, if this goes that way.

[cairnswk]

OK, here's version 25....bakc to the drawing board.

Changes:
1. each continent in the web now borders the spider with one tert.
2. each continent bordering the web has 6 terts (with the exception of wicked the witch who can attack every continent.
It won't take long to get this xmled and army centered so what do you think.

Click image to enlarge.

[oaktown]

hmm... i, too, was confused by the switch in the spider bonus, but while I wasn't paying close attention I don't think that the current language is misleading.

I fully agree with cairns that the spider shouldn't be an easy take because every player is sure to have three regions in the big web - this was my concern earlier. But killing a 9 to get a +2 might be a bit steep - it'll take +/- four rounds to make that up. I won't yank the gameplay stamp because we need to move along on this, but maybe it could start as a 6 neutral? It would be suicide to hit a 6 neutral in the first few rounds.

[edbeard]

just have it say spider and at least 3 spider-web territories. 6 is a decent number but I'm not sure how smart it is to attack 6 neutrals for a max +2

to me the whole thing is disappointing because the way you've structured the bonus has greatly diminished the importance of the spider-web territories and makes the whole thing seem kinda weird




the territory switch has, in my mind, made the respective bonuses for those areas switch as well. possibly this makes witches' way a +6 region. you might even want to increase the Death's Door bonus to 7


don't forget to change the shadow where the gate opens so that the borders where Tombstone Terrace, Witches' Way and Death's Door all meet are clear.

[laci_mae]

I agree with these concerns about the web bonus. When I suggested 9, I was under the impression that holding Spidey + multiples of 3 territories got you larger bonuses. Starting with 5 or 6 neutrals would be fine with the current bonus structure.

L

[cairnswk]

i'd like to re-create these concentric rings....so that the bonus can be:
"Spider plus 3 territories from each concentric ring" +1

Will that suit everyone?

[TaCktiX]

I don't know why no one's caught this, but Impassables is spelled like that <-- not this --> impassibles.

I agree with the concentric idea, but adding the word concentric won't be necessary when there are clear "circles" to it.

[cairnswk]

Version 26 Rework

1. remade the concentric circles
2. reworked all he spider web terts
3. new bonus idea for spider plus 3 terts from each set of circles
4. animal farm changed to blue for colour-blind purposes

Click image to enlarge.

[oaktown]

the color change was a great help - thanks. It could be brought down a bit darker to maintain the night-time look if you'd like.

Visually I like the rings radiating out from the spider, as it helps give the impression of a web, but I think has more potential to confuse. Now, according to the legend, you have to hold the spider plus 12 territories (3 from each ring) for the +1 bonus. And the language is off - the four rings together makes a "set" of rings, rather than there being multiple sets of rings.... you can just say "Spider & 3 spider web territories from each ring."

But what I believe you mean to say is that you receive a bonus for "the spider plus three territories from any ring" which would mean that you can hold more than +1 spider bonus. If this is what you're after, there should maybe be a mention of the fact that the web is made of rings in the legend. And ont he left hand side of the map where wolverine meets raven tree, you could have the lower Wolverine border extend to the edge of the map rather than vertical border which breaks up the radiating web effect.

[cairnswk]

hmm... i, too, was confused by the switch in the spider bonus, but while I wasn't paying close attention I don't think that the current language is misleading.

I fully agree with cairns that the spider shouldn't be an easy take because every player is sure to have three regions in the big web - this was my concern earlier. But killing a 9 to get a +2 might be a bit steep - it'll take +/- four rounds to make that up. I won't yank the gameplay stamp because we need to move along on this, but maybe it could start as a 6 neutral? It would be suicide to hit a 6 neutral in the first few rounds.

Ok...Version 27 below from oaktown's suggestions above.

Click image to enlarge.

[edbeard]

both impassible and impassable are adjectives so putting an s on the end of either word is incorrect.

impassable means impossible to pass

impassible means not suffering to pain or harm


I'm not sure people will know what a 'ring' is. yes, I know that you mentioned it in the legend. How about changing it to "any web covered continent"

Also, did you see my gameplay comment about the bonuses for Wizard Ward and Witches' Way? At the least, their bonuses should be swapped. Witches' Way is so big now, it might be worth 6. Wizard Ward is a 3 or 4. The problem is that the Spider basically cancels out a border so you can hold it with 2. I'd like more comments from others on all this though =ahem=

[cairnswk]

both impassible and impassable are adjectives so putting an s on the end of either word is incorrect.

impassable means impossible to pass

impassible means not suffering to pain or harm


I'm not sure people will know what a 'ring' is. yes, I know that you mentioned it in the legend. How about changing it to "any web covered continent"

Also, did you see my gameplay comment about the bonuses for Wizard Ward and Witches' Way? At the least, their bonuses should be swapped. Witches' Way is so big now, it might be worth 6. Wizard Ward is a 3 or 4. The problem is that the Spider basically cancels out a border so you can hold it with 2. I'd like more comments from others on all this though =ahem=

I'm sure people will get the rings on the web....i'm not liking your "any web covered continent" if you mean spider plus 3 of any web covered continent. i'd prefer to do this ring thing and have something different.
Players will get it after the first game, and let's face it all games are now beta starting off...play at your own risk.

Yes. please refresh your browser, i was just working on that as i've only just woken up, and was going to answer your original post, but won't bother now.
Bonuses have been re-worked, although i don't agree with 7 for Death's Door.

I agree with these concerns about the web bonus. When I suggested 9, I was under the impression that holding Spidey + multiples of 3 territories got you larger bonuses. Starting with 5 or 6 neutrals would be fine with the current bonus structure.

L

6 neutrals done.

I don't know why no one's caught this, but Impassables is spelled like that <-- not this --> impassibles.

I agree with the concentric idea, but adding the word concentric won't be necessary when there are clear "circles" to it.

fixed....circles done.

[oaktown]

Players will get it after the first game, and let's face it all games are now beta starting off...play at your own risk.

We shouldn't use that as an excuse to get sloppy! Anyway, we've recalled enough of your maps, cairns.

I think that some minor language tweaks can set everything straight...

In the side legend you could simplify the last description to "Spider & 3 territories from any web ring" - assuming we make it clear what a web ring is.

In the main legend, I'd start by putting at least a bot of space after the line "... the witch can not withstand" so that the rest reads separately. And i notice the dash is still there after the paren. Agh!

Next, I'd go right into describing the web, because right now it is just an afterthought attached to the Wicked info...
"The larger spider web's rings span across the Animal Farm, Death's Door, Wizard Ward, and Witches way. Wicked is part of Witches' Way, but not the spider web."

It may not fit as nicely as what you have, but I think it will be worth possibly making the legend box bigger and sacrificing a bit of wall if it means not confusing players.

Since gimil isn't around much these days, what do we say we ask andy to make an executive decision and stamp this for graphics once we iron this stuff out?

[cairnswk]

Players will get it after the first game, and let's face it all games are now beta starting off...play at your own risk.

We shouldn't use that as an excuse to get sloppy! Anyway, we've recalled enough of your maps, cairns.

Well we both know the truth about that one don't we?

I think that some minor language tweaks can set everything straight...

In the side legend you could simplify the last description to "Spider & 3 territories from any web ring" - assuming we make it clear what a web ring is.

In the main legend, I'd start by putting at least a bot of space after the line "... the witch can not withstand" so that the rest reads separately. And i notice the dash is still there after the paren. Agh!

Next, I'd go right into describing the web, because right now it is just an afterthought attached to the Wicked info...
"The larger spider web's rings span across the Animal Farm, Death's Door, Wizard Ward, and Witches way. Wicked is part of Witches' Way, but not the spider web."

It may not fit as nicely as what you have, but I think it will be worth possibly making the legend box bigger and sacrificing a bit of wall if it means not confusing players.

Since gimil isn't around much these days, what do we say we ask andy to make an executive decision and stamp this for graphics once we iron this stuff out?

Mmmm is Andy still around, he's as scarce as hen's teeth these days, maybe the banana season is low.

Anyway all those adjustments in Version 27 still, please refresh.

Click image to enlarge.

[gimil]

Might just have this one done in time for halloween mate!

[cairnswk]

Might just have this one done in time for halloween mate!

Ta muchly gimil.

[AndyDufresne]

It's looking good cairnswk! I remember when you first started this idea long ago... I'll hope for some speed.


--Andy

[Natewolfman]

is the spider web esecially over a deep hole?