World 2.0/1 Map [Quenched]

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:46 pm

In fact, if that doesn't turn into a connection in the next addition, I think the Far East continent needs to drop to a bonus of +3. With 3 borders it is easily held, and from there its easy to expand to India/Russia and get and even bigger bonus without changing many borders. In a few games I've played or looked at, the Far East seems to be too much of a power concentration (the same is true for SA as a whole continent- It's not too hard to capture and only has 3 borders, one of which is antarctica where no one will be building- and Africa is also usually not a heavily contested area, at least not the Mahgreb sub.

Anyway, those are just two balance issues I think the map has. I like the current bonuses but I would add a connection to Korea and another connection somewhere in SA.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:49 pm

In fact, I just found a perfect example of why I think the Far East is out of balance. It has 5 total countries and 3 borders for a bonus of 4.

Western Europe has 6 countries and 3 borders but is only worth 3.

I know that the Far east has more countries bordering it, but I don't think that should play such a large role if the continent only has 3 borders.

zim · Post by **zim** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:53 pm

Sully,

I agree both SA and Far East are relatively too strong. I'm swamped in RL at the moment but I'm planning to start correcting things over the holidays.

Cheers,

Zim

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:25 pm

No rush on the update, since the bugs all seem to be fixed and you've put a ton of work into this already. I'm just things out as I see them, but thanks for caring

Bighab · Post by **Bighab** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:25 pm

I had this issue today that I just posted in another forum
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9845

zim · Post by **zim** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:28 pm

Bighab wrote:I had this issue today that I just posted in another forum
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9845

See half way down page five of this thread. Common mistake, I'll make it clearer in the next update...

Cheers,

Zim

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:12 pm

zim wrote:Sully,

I agree both SA and Far East are relatively too strong. I'm swamped in RL at the moment but I'm planning to start correcting things over the holidays.

Cheers,

Zim

Damn, wont b able to complain on the things i see wrong with the map.

Seronja · Post by **Seronja** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:16 am

Is the oceania bonus changed?

I got only 3 reinforcements for oceania and it should have been 9...

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=135085#gmtop

Lupo · Post by **Lupo** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:19 am

Seronja wrote:Is the oceania bonus changed?

I got only 3 reinforcements for oceania and it should have been 9...

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=135085#gmtop

2006-12-16 00:18:19 - Seronja receives 3 armies for holding Oceania
2006-12-16 00:18:19 - Seronja receives 2 armies for holding Australia
2006-12-16 00:18:19 - Seronja receives 4 armies for holding East Indies

TOTAL 9

you cannot add subcontinental bonuses to the continental bonuses!

moreover if you look the legend, it is also written: Oceania (total) 9

Seronja · Post by **Seronja** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:22 am

ok, thanks, than it is not such a big bonus to hold a whole continent

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:49 pm

Most aren't a huge additional bonus, but in most cases holding the whole thing also reduces your borders which gives a bit of added incentive.

Euorpe is one were you get a huge bonus for holding the whole thing- it jumps from 5 for the subs to 11 total for the continent.

Nous-irons · Post by **Nous-irons** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:36 pm

zim wrote:Sully,

I agree both SA and Far East are relatively too strong. I'm swamped in RL at the moment but I'm planning to start correcting things over the holidays.

Cheers,

Zim

SA is actually quite vulnerable. I just attacked SA through Antarctica: it's going to be very hard for my opponent to take it back because I can eat my way through the heart of the continent, robbing him of all of the bonuses, without ever touching his border regions that would allow him to launch a counterattack in one turn.

Note in contrast Africa, in which one cannot eat one's way through the middle of the continent without attacking either Cameeroon, Sudan, Congo and Tanzania span the length of the middle of the continent and are defensible places to hold bonuses.

sully800 wrote:In fact, if that doesn't turn into a connection in the next addition, I think the Far East continent needs to drop to a bonus of +3. With 3 borders it is easily held, and from there its easy to expand to India/Russia and get and even bigger bonus without changing many borders. In a few games I've played or looked at, the Far East seems to be too much of a power concentration (the same is true for SA as a whole continent- It's not too hard to capture and only has 3 borders, one of which is antarctica where no one will be building- and Africa is also usually not a heavily contested area, at least not the Mahgreb sub.

Anyway, those are just two balance issues I think the map has. I like the current bonuses but I would add a connection to Korea and another connection somewhere in SA.

My solution is to split China up, e.g. at least into Xinjiang and Central Plains. I like the Western chauvinism where the US, Canada and Russia receive such devoting attention to its territories but a large country like China has none of its regions recognised (unless you count Taiwan under the One Country Two Systems concept).

Nous-irons · Post by **Nous-irons** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:55 pm

Lupo wrote:
Seronja wrote:Is the oceania bonus changed?

I got only 3 reinforcements for oceania and it should have been 9...

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=135085#gmtop
2006-12-16 00:18:19 - Seronja receives 3 armies for holding Oceania
2006-12-16 00:18:19 - Seronja receives 2 armies for holding Australia
2006-12-16 00:18:19 - Seronja receives 4 armies for holding East Indies

TOTAL 9

you cannot add subcontinental bonuses to the continental bonuses!

moreover if you look the legend, it is also written: Oceania (total) 9

I think this concept should be englightened more. "Total" can be interpreted both ways. Why not "counting subcontinental bonuses"?

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:08 pm

Nous-irons wrote: SA is actually quite vulnerable. I just attacked SA through Antarctica: it's going to be very hard for my opponent to take it back because I can eat my way through the heart of the continent, robbing him of all of the bonuses, without ever touching his border regions that would allow him to launch a counterattack in one turn.

Note in contrast Africa, in which one cannot eat one's way through the middle of the continent without attacking either Cameeroon, Sudan, Congo and Tanzania span the length of the middle of the continent and are defensible places to hold bonuses.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think that makes SA more vulnerable. All of the total continents have widespread borders because they include so many countries. The only total continent borders that connect are Phillipines/Hawaii in Oceania....Turkey/Levant in Asia and Komi/Kazakhstan in Asia. But Asia is essentially impossible to hold anyway because it has so many borders, it doesn't really matter how many of those borders connect.

But on any total continent, if you break through a border you will be able to ruin the person's bonuses with little retaliation for the reasons you mentioned (unless its one of the two northern borders in Oceania)

Fish Breeder Boy · Post by **Fish Breeder Boy** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:24 pm

I'm not sure if this issue has been solved yet but Venezuela is spelled wrong. It says Venezuala.

Kashmir · Post by **Kashmir** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:18 pm

I'm not sure if this is a bug, is Hawaii part of Oceania and could someone please list me all the territories in Oceania. I thought I had them all but I didn't get the bonus

s.xkitten · Post by **s.xkitten** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:55 pm

i'm not sure...but i think it is, cause i didn't get my bonus till i owned it...its kinda weird though, i think it should be part of the North America part, but it seems to be part of oceania

Kashmir · Post by **Kashmir** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:18 pm

my thoughts exactly, I just assumed since Hawaii is one of the states of the U.S. it would be part of NA, World 2.0 has so many different territories and the colors aren't real definitive, there ought to be some list stating which ones belong to which continent, I bet a lot of people have lost bonuses because of the color misidentifications

s.xkitten · Post by **s.xkitten** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:21 pm

heck yes i have...not that it matters, since you get killer amounts of troops anyways...

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:41 pm

Perhaps zim could move the army shadow off of Hawaii so you can see that it is actually ORANGE underneath, thus referring to Oceania.

--Andy

s.xkitten · Post by **s.xkitten** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:42 pm

thanks andy...while you're here, can you block people from posting about the sumatra-brunei boarder ppppllllleeeeeaaaassseeee

grauenstadt · Post by **grauenstadt** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:49 pm

Hawaii should also connect to the western United States.
An Arctic ice shelf would be a good addition -- maybe just one or two territories -- to bridge Alaska and Canada to a couple Russian territories. The North Pole, like Antarctica, won't provide troop bonuses.

If the Russian and Canadian territories are open to attack from over the North Pole, then Canada and Russia ought to offer additional troop bonuses. Perhaps +1 for every 1 or 2 connecting routes are added.

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:01 pm

Please post your map related suggestion to the map's thread in the Map Foundry forum so that the author will read it:

World Map 2.0 Issues/Bugs...

Molacole · Post by **Molacole** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:12 pm

Outstanding job ZIM (and those who helped)!! This is by far the best map I've played.

zim · Post by **zim** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:25 pm

World Map 2.1

Todo list:
Definite fixes:
* Adjust sea route from Sumatra to Central Indonesia to make it clearer that it is NOT Sumatra --> Brunei. Or if this is still unclear remove the Brunei border and make the two territories into the two islands; the northern one (which contains Brunei) would become Kalimantan and the Southern one Sulawesi. I'm leaning in this direction as I think it's clearer and will save s.xkitten from having to kill any other forum members.[/li]
* Remove Norway <---> Moskva attack route from the XML and clean up border to make it clear that only Finland borders Moskva.
* Remove second reference to Finland from Moskva XML (doesn't affect game play but clean code is better...)
* Move Korea/China border so that it is clearer that Korea does not border Irkutsk.
* Correct spelling of Venezuala.
* Make Peru/Chile border clearer.
* Move Hawaii army shadow to make it more visible that it is Orange and hence part of Oceania

Other possible edits/updates:
* Should Sorong be renamed Irian Jaya? The area currently known as Sorong is actually contains two provinces Papua and West Irian Jaya so Irian Jaya would be inexact as well but probably closer to reality than Sorong. Thoughts?
* Should the Far East continent bonus be lowered from 4 to 3?
* Should the South America total bonus be lowered from 9 to 8?

Any other residual bugs or areas of signicant confusion that I've missed please let me know.

Cheers,

Zim

P.S. Not sure if this'll do any good but I'd prefer not to re-open continent design issues, perform major surgery on sub-continent membership, etc.
P.P.S. And (for what it's worth) please take a few minutes to skim the original design thread before making these kinds of suggestions if you still feel you really must...

World 2.0/1 Map [Quenched]

World 2.0 Suggestions

World Map 2.1