The Jesus Freaks

[OnlyAmbrose]

IN A LAKE OF FIRE!

Where is this lake anyway? Can we waterski there? Kneeboarding might be better, but doing a faceplant into fire would probably sting. Does it have a dock where we can get gas, beer & munchies?

And why a lake anyway? "POND OF FIRE!" or "WADING POOL OF FIRE!" just doesnt frighten the kids enough I guess...but OCEAN OF FIRE would have been much better.

You guys are just silly...

Truely sad. Back, I feel sorry for you man. Why can't you step back from yourself and ask, "What if they are right?", "What if Hell is real?". Instead of make fun of it. It really is too big of an issue to not invest some reserch into. Because if there is an afterlife, your 70- 90 years on Earth will seem like nothing. And spending all that time denying an afterlife might someday be the most ironic thing you have ever witnessed.

I don't know what it is with the obsession with hell you two have (jay and HSF). YES it's a reality, and YES it is something to be avoided, but do you really want people to begin a relationship with God out of fear of hell?

Perhaps it would be better for them to begin by loving God.

A better thing to ask yourself, Backglass, would be:

"What if they are right? What if there is a God who loves me unconditionally and wants to see me reach out to Him with open arms? What if there is a God who is watching me with loving eyes, waiting for me to run into His arms like a child to his father?"

well if that is so... umm then when i see it ill run into it's arms like a child to his/her father/mother... if god is all loving unconditionally then god will understand me questioning the existance, and if god loves unconditionally then there will be no hell as he loves everyone enough to let them in unconditionally..

The damned damn themselves, God does not damn anyone. God will present Himself to you in your life at some point, if He hasn't already, and it is then up to you to accept or deny Him. If you deny Him in this life, you do so in the next, but know that while you are in this life, there is always time to accept Him.

The love of God is a gift- He will not force it upon you, you must open your hand and freely receive it.

[Stopper]

The damned damn themselves, God does not damn anyone. God will present Himself to you in your life at some point, if He hasn't already, and it is then up to you to accept or deny Him. If you deny Him in this life, you do so in the next, but know that while you are in this life, there is always time to accept Him.

The love of God is a gift- He will not force it upon you, you must open your hand and freely receive it.

For an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient being, he doesn't half play games with us mere mortals, does he?

[vtmarik]

The damned damn themselves, God does not damn anyone. God will present Himself to you in your life at some point, if He hasn't already, and it is then up to you to accept or deny Him. If you deny Him in this life, you do so in the next, but know that while you are in this life, there is always time to accept Him.

The love of God is a gift- He will not force it upon you, you must open your hand and freely receive it.

Yeah, accept god or burn. That isn't a choice. That's like saying "Eat this cotton candy or I'll shoot you," or "Hold my purse or I'll knife you."

What are you going to do in those situations?

[OnlyAmbrose]

The damned damn themselves, God does not damn anyone. God will present Himself to you in your life at some point, if He hasn't already, and it is then up to you to accept or deny Him. If you deny Him in this life, you do so in the next, but know that while you are in this life, there is always time to accept Him.

The love of God is a gift- He will not force it upon you, you must open your hand and freely receive it.

Yeah, accept god or burn. That isn't a choice. That's like saying "Eat this cotton candy or I'll shoot you," or "Hold my purse or I'll knife you."

What are you going to do in those situations?

I think you misunderstand me. God doesn't threaten us with hell. Hell is a conscious choice- by definition it is the absence of God. Only when you see Him in His perfection when you die will you be able to fathom just how terrible such an absence is. But what happens when you die is a reflection of your life- accept God here, and you will accept him there, but if you refuse Him, you're only damning yourself. It's YOUR choice, and God does not, will not tamper with our choices. He wants us to love Him of our own free will.

Again, hell is a conscious choice, YOUR choice. You may choose between God and Godlessness, and I can only pray that your choice changes between now and your death. But what I've been saying to jay is this:

Don't make the choice because hell is such a terrible place. Make the choice because of God's love for you.

[vtmarik]

I think you misunderstand me. God doesn't threaten us with hell. Hell is a conscious choice- by definition it is the absence of God. Only when you see Him in His perfection when you die will you be able to fathom just how terrible such an absence is. But what happens when you die is a reflection of your life- accept God here, and you will accept him there, but if you refuse Him, you're only damning yourself. It's YOUR choice, and God does not, will not tamper with our choices. He wants us to love him of our own free will.

Again, hell is a conscious choice, YOUR choice. You may choose between God and Godlessness, and I can only pray that your choice changes between now and your death. But what I've been saying to jay is this:

Don't make the choice because hell is such a terrible place. Make the choice because of God's love for you.

Choosing between god and godlessness isn't a choice. A choice is a presentation of two equally good, or equally bad, situations and sets of consequences. Choosing God leads you to heaven, while choosing not God leads you to hell. What if we acknowledge God while making no choice on the matter at all? Will we reincarnate, or is that enough to take us to paradise? Will we end up in purgatory?

This is what I mean by a lack of balance. You choose either God's love, or reject God and thus choose Hell. Where's the middle option? Where's the option where you come to understand God, but don't buy the sales pitch 100% while simultaneously denying the existence of Hell?

[OnlyAmbrose]

I think you misunderstand me. God doesn't threaten us with hell. Hell is a conscious choice- by definition it is the absence of God. Only when you see Him in His perfection when you die will you be able to fathom just how terrible such an absence is. But what happens when you die is a reflection of your life- accept God here, and you will accept him there, but if you refuse Him, you're only damning yourself. It's YOUR choice, and God does not, will not tamper with our choices. He wants us to love him of our own free will.

Again, hell is a conscious choice, YOUR choice. You may choose between God and Godlessness, and I can only pray that your choice changes between now and your death. But what I've been saying to jay is this:

Don't make the choice because hell is such a terrible place. Make the choice because of God's love for you.

Choosing between god and godlessness isn't a choice. A choice is a presentation of two equally good, or equally bad, situations and sets of consequences. Choosing God leads you to heaven, while choosing not God leads you to hell. What if we acknowledge God while making no choice on the matter at all? Will we reincarnate, or is that enough to take us to paradise? Will we end up in purgatory?

This is what I mean by a lack of balance. You choose either God's love, or reject God and thus choose Hell. Where's the middle option? Where's the option where you come to understand God, but don't buy the sales pitch 100% while simultaneously denying the existence of Hell?

Purgatory is a Catholic-only doctrine. Incidentally, the Church never legislates who is in hell- there is no way of knowing. Only God has that knowledge. How do we know someone didn't undergo a last-minute conversion in his heart? We don't KNOW exactly what will become of us. What we do know is that if you go to God, he will not turn you away. But once you pass the point of no return (death), there is no averting your course. Life is precious- we must do with it what we can and head in the right direction so that when we DO pass the point of no return, we're on a vector for God's arms.

[vtmarik]

Purgatory is a Catholic-only doctrine. Incidentally, the Church never legislates who is in hell- there is no way of knowing. Only God has that knowledge. How do we know someone didn't undergo a last-minute conversion in his heart? We don't KNOW exactly what will become of us. What we do know is that if you go to God, he will not turn you away. But once you pass the point of no return (death), there is no averting your course. Life is precious- we must do with it what we can and head in the right direction so that when we DO pass the point of no return, we're on a vector for God's arms.

Ok, now it makes sense. Thanks for spelling it out and having patience with me OnlyAmbrose. I try to understand every side of a debate, which is why I take devil's advocate most of the time (pardon the inverted pun).

I can understand your point of view now, though I still don't subscribe to it. It's too black-and-white for me, there's no third option. Perhaps, down my path, I'll learn something else and meet you up there, but odds are I'm going to be in some other Great Beyond.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Purgatory is a Catholic-only doctrine. Incidentally, the Church never legislates who is in hell- there is no way of knowing. Only God has that knowledge. How do we know someone didn't undergo a last-minute conversion in his heart? We don't KNOW exactly what will become of us. What we do know is that if you go to God, he will not turn you away. But once you pass the point of no return (death), there is no averting your course. Life is precious- we must do with it what we can and head in the right direction so that when we DO pass the point of no return, we're on a vector for God's arms.

Ok, now it makes sense. Thanks for spelling it out and having patience with me OnlyAmbrose. I try to understand every side of a debate, which is why I take devil's advocate most of the time (pardon the inverted pun).

I can understand your point of view now, though I still don't subscribe to it. It's too black-and-white for me, there's no third option. Perhaps, down my path, I'll learn something else and meet you up there, but odds are I'm going to be in some other Great Beyond.

Well, I believe in a 3rd option (purgatory). And though there's no official doctrine on the following, it's not unusual for Catholics scholars to subscribe to a 4th option too, for the unborn souls who have never been baptized/tested but never did wrong either.

edit- and anytime, vt, thanks for listening. I'm always happy to share my POV, as many people know

[morph]

Purgatory is a Catholic-only doctrine. Incidentally, the Church never legislates who is in hell- there is no way of knowing. Only God has that knowledge. How do we know someone didn't undergo a last-minute conversion in his heart? We don't KNOW exactly what will become of us. What we do know is that if you go to God, he will not turn you away. But once you pass the point of no return (death), there is no averting your course. Life is precious- we must do with it what we can and head in the right direction so that when we DO pass the point of no return, we're on a vector for God's arms.

Ok, now it makes sense. Thanks for spelling it out and having patience with me OnlyAmbrose. I try to understand every side of a debate, which is why I take devil's advocate most of the time (pardon the inverted pun).

I can understand your point of view now, though I still don't subscribe to it. It's too black-and-white for me, there's no third option. Perhaps, down my path, I'll learn something else and meet you up there, but odds are I'm going to be in some other Great Beyond.

Well, I believe in a 3rd option (purgatory). And though there's no official doctrine on the following, it's not unusual for Catholics scholars to subscribe to a 4th option too, for the unborn souls who have never been baptized/tested but never did wrong either.

edit- and anytime, vt, thanks for listening. I'm always happy to share my POV, as many people know

i like both of you, for the fact that both of you explain the points and such and ambrose i do not think you have pointed things out and yet not been able to give a example of it being true... so far you have said things and been able to back it up, unlike a lot of people..

[jay_a2j]

Yeah, accept god or burn. That isn't a choice. That's like saying "Eat this cotton candy or I'll shoot you," or "Hold my purse or I'll knife you."

What are you going to do in those situations?

Its more like saying, "I have sent my Son to die in your place so that you and I could live together since your sin is paid for" or Live in sin, not accepting Gods free gift of salvation and you will live in eternity apart from God by your own choosing.

[Jolly Roger]

Yeah, accept god or burn. That isn't a choice. That's like saying "Eat this cotton candy or I'll shoot you," or "Hold my purse or I'll knife you."

What are you going to do in those situations?

Its more like saying, "I have sent my Son to die in your place so that you and I could live together since your sin is paid for" or Live in sin, not accepting Gods free gift of salvation and you will live in eternity apart from God by your own choosing.

Do you believe people can lead good lives and still be barred from heaven because they don't believe in God?

[jay_a2j]

Yeah, accept god or burn. That isn't a choice. That's like saying "Eat this cotton candy or I'll shoot you," or "Hold my purse or I'll knife you."

What are you going to do in those situations?

Its more like saying, "I have sent my Son to die in your place so that you and I could live together since your sin is paid for" or Live in sin, not accepting Gods free gift of salvation and you will live in eternity apart from God by your own choosing.

Do you believe people can lead good lives and still be barred from heaven because they don't believe in God?

"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

"No one is good except God"

"Unless a man be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

If you die in sin, you can not enter the Kingdom of God. No one has lived a "good" life. So the answer is not barred, but chosen.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Yeah, accept god or burn. That isn't a choice. That's like saying "Eat this cotton candy or I'll shoot you," or "Hold my purse or I'll knife you."

What are you going to do in those situations?

Its more like saying, "I have sent my Son to die in your place so that you and I could live together since your sin is paid for" or Live in sin, not accepting Gods free gift of salvation and you will live in eternity apart from God by your own choosing.

Do you believe people can lead good lives and still be barred from heaven because they don't believe in God?

I can't speak for jay, but Catholic dogma on the matter states that there is no salvation without Christ.

BUT.

That does NOT necessarily mean one needs formal membership in the Christian Church by the time of his/her death to be saved. As I have said before, it boils down to this- acceptance or denial of God. If God shows himself to you and you reject Him, you're off course. But if you accept Him, Christian or no, you are on the right path. What this means is that if you are shown that Christianity is the true faith and you reject it anyways (for whatever reason- pride, not wanting to conform to such moral standards, etc), THAT is what denies you your salvation.

Hope that helps.

[Jolly Roger]

Yeah, accept god or burn. That isn't a choice. That's like saying "Eat this cotton candy or I'll shoot you," or "Hold my purse or I'll knife you."

What are you going to do in those situations?

Its more like saying, "I have sent my Son to die in your place so that you and I could live together since your sin is paid for" or Live in sin, not accepting Gods free gift of salvation and you will live in eternity apart from God by your own choosing.

Do you believe people can lead good lives and still be barred from heaven because they don't believe in God?

"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

"No one is good except God"

"Unless a man be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

If you die in sin, you can not enter the Kingdom of God. No one has lived a "good" life. So the answer is not barred, but chosen.

Are you forgetting something?

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. -- John 5:29
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12
I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. -- Jeremiah 17:10
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16.27
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- Matthew 25:34-36
Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13
For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17
I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13

[vtmarik]

I can't speak for jay, but Catholic dogma on the matter states that there is no salvation without Christ.

BUT.

That does NOT necessarily mean one needs formal membership in the Christian Church by the time of his/her death to be saved. As I have said before, it boils down to this- acceptance or denial of God. If God shows himself to you and you reject Him, you're off course. But if you accept Him, Christian or no, you are on the right path. What this means is that if you are shown that Christianity is the true faith and you reject it anyways (for whatever reason- pride, not wanting to conform to such moral standards, etc), THAT is what denies you your salvation.

Hope that helps.

So, since I do accept God, even though I refer to Him in the only way I can conceptualize Him, I'm groovy?

[OnlyAmbrose]

Yeah, accept god or burn. That isn't a choice. That's like saying "Eat this cotton candy or I'll shoot you," or "Hold my purse or I'll knife you."

What are you going to do in those situations?

Its more like saying, "I have sent my Son to die in your place so that you and I could live together since your sin is paid for" or Live in sin, not accepting Gods free gift of salvation and you will live in eternity apart from God by your own choosing.

Do you believe people can lead good lives and still be barred from heaven because they don't believe in God?

"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"

"No one is good except God"

"Unless a man be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

If you die in sin, you can not enter the Kingdom of God. No one has lived a "good" life. So the answer is not barred, but chosen.

Are you forgetting something?

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. -- John 5:29
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12
I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. -- Jeremiah 17:10
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16.27
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- Matthew 25:34-36
Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13
For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17
I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13

You left out the one which (in my opinion) sums the whole thing up-

What god is it, my brothers, if someone says they have faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Indeed, someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active among his works, and faith was completed by the works. Thus the scriputure was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God." See how a person is justified by works and not faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as the body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Often, we as Christians tend to think that we are somehow exempt from the threat of hell so long as we believe in Christ. Indeed, many denominations TEACH that. As James points out here, this is not the case. Living a good life is a vital component of salvation. It goes hand in hand with having faith.

We can't say for certain who is and is not saved. Only you and God know what is happening in your hearts- only God knows your culpability behind your nonbelief, and, in the case of Christians, only God knows the TRUE conviction you have in your beliefs.

In conclusion, I'm basically saying, we don't KNOW who is and is not saved. What is clear is this- salvation is impossible without God. Whether or not salvation is possible for non-Christians is the subject of much debate. Personally, I don't like people who think that Christianity is some sort of exclusive "club" of people who are guaranteed to be saved. God reaches out to ALL people, and perhaps moreso to nonbelievers. When Christ was on earth, he paid the most attention to the sinners, stating that "a man who is well does not need a physician." Salvation is a gift to humanity, not just Christians. Nonetheless, it is your choice and yours alone whether or not you accept it.

[Knight of Orient]

O.A. is my vote for official candidate for spokesman of the Jesus Freaks . Well put O.A.

[jay_a2j]

Are you forgetting something?

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. -- John 5:29
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12
I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. -- Jeremiah 17:10
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16.27
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- Matthew 25:34-36
Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13
For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17
I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13

Most, if not all the verses you quoted refer to "works". Salvation can not be earned. It is by grace that we are saved. However, faith without works is dead. "Fruit" is what your faith produces. A man who leads many to Christ has abundant "fruit". If a "tree" produces no fruit it "will be cut down and thrown into the fire". We must not only read Gods word .... we must live it.

[OnlyAmbrose]

ALRIGHT FOLKS!

Due to the complete leadership vacuum we've been experiencing lately, we're having elections in a few days. Check out the newest thread in the Town Square to post what position you want to run for so we can get this clan rolling and accepting members.

[morph]

....if a man has many "fruit" and then God "eats" these "fruit" and you are the "tree" and the tree in the story of creation was full of like evil or somethin (i cant quite remember it all, i was taught it, but a bad childhood has barred most of it from me), and you come from outside of paradise, tech God is eating your "fruit" and the "Fruit" is bad.. does this mean people get to kick out God, for eating bad "fruit" ..... i dont know, i have confounded myself and lost myself.... wow... its a first, ill leave it here incase someone wants to sort it out...

Question, God make everything, and everything is made of God, does this mean God is both Evil and Good as God made Good and Evil...... so he is supposed to be such good and evil... as he made them and everything is made of god... umm also... he went through all the whole i send down fire and brimestone... ummm a good man, women, it (we know them transvestites... *starts to hum a song from Rocky horrer Picture show*) and God said "Thou shalt not kill" or somethin like that for commandments, umm isint God breaking his own commandments and dosnt that mean that God is a hypicrite?? just wonderin...

[OnlyAmbrose]

Question, God make everything, and everything is made of God, does this mean God is both Evil and Good as God made Good and Evil...... so he is supposed to be such good and evil... as he made them and everything is made of god... umm also... he went through all the whole i send down fire and brimestone... ummm a good man, women, it (we know them transvestites... *starts to hum a song from Rocky horrer Picture show*) and God said "Thou shalt not kill" or somethin like that for commandments, umm isint God breaking his own commandments and dosnt that mean that God is a hypicrite?? just wonderin...

Not sure where you get the idea that everything is made of God, lol. Satan is certainly not made of God- God is love, Satan is evil.

God gave us (and the angels) free choice in whether or not to accept him. "Evil", boiled down to its essence, is the REJECTION of God and His ways- Satan rejected God of his own free will, which I guess could be the first evil. Adam and Eve rejected God's ways by disobeying Him, thus original sin greases the slippery slope of human evil.

So everything is NOT made of God, though he made everything. God is all good, and rejection of that good is, in turn, evil.

God bless, hope this clarifies the issue

[vtmarik]

Not sure where you get the idea that everything is made of God, lol. Satan is certainly not made of God- God is love, Satan is evil.

God gave us (and the angels) free choice in whether or not to accept him. "Evil", boiled down to its essence, is the REJECTION of God and His ways- Satan rejected God of his own free will, which I guess could be the first evil. Adam and Eve rejected God's ways by disobeying Him, thus original sin greases the slippery slope of human evil.

What if you reject both? Or, more to the point, can you reject both?

[OnlyAmbrose]

Not sure where you get the idea that everything is made of God, lol. Satan is certainly not made of God- God is love, Satan is evil.

God gave us (and the angels) free choice in whether or not to accept him. "Evil", boiled down to its essence, is the REJECTION of God and His ways- Satan rejected God of his own free will, which I guess could be the first evil. Adam and Eve rejected God's ways by disobeying Him, thus original sin greases the slippery slope of human evil.

What if you reject both? Or, more to the point, can you reject both?

There is only one thing to reject, and that is God, and God is good. You CAN'T reject "both" because both doesn't exist.

So if you reject God and his teachings, that is evil. But on the same note, if God is good, if you reject good, that is an evil.

The debate here really lies in, can you accept good and thus accept God, even if you are not a Christian on paper? I say yes- I believe that, since good could not exist without God, every good act has God within it, whether you consciously know it or not. This, though, is not "official" doctrine, but not contrary to doctrine either, so far as I am aware.

[Aradhus]

Not sure where you get the idea that everything is made of God, lol. Satan is certainly not made of God- God is love, Satan is evil.

God gave us (and the angels) free choice in whether or not to accept him. "Evil", boiled down to its essence, is the REJECTION of God and His ways- Satan rejected God of his own free will, which I guess could be the first evil. Adam and Eve rejected God's ways by disobeying Him, thus original sin greases the slippery slope of human evil.

So everything is NOT made of God, though he made everything. God is all good, and rejection of that good is, in turn, evil.

God bless, hope this clarifies the issue

Only someone with 'faith' could not see how absurd your premise is.

God: You've got free will, but you reject me and you're doomed you little pissant, now worship at my feet!

[OnlyAmbrose]

Not sure where you get the idea that everything is made of God, lol. Satan is certainly not made of God- God is love, Satan is evil.

God gave us (and the angels) free choice in whether or not to accept him. "Evil", boiled down to its essence, is the REJECTION of God and His ways- Satan rejected God of his own free will, which I guess could be the first evil. Adam and Eve rejected God's ways by disobeying Him, thus original sin greases the slippery slope of human evil.

So everything is NOT made of God, though he made everything. God is all good, and rejection of that good is, in turn, evil.

God bless, hope this clarifies the issue

Only someone with 'faith' could not see how absurd your premise is.

God: You've got free will, but you reject me and you're doomed you little pissant, now worship at my feet!

Certainly not. Allow me to rephrase your statement.

God: I offer myself unto you. Accept me, and we shall spend eternity together. You may choose to spend eternity without me, as much as it would grieve me. Know only that I love you and want to see you on the path to my arms.