Australia [Quenched]

[ttocs]

Two things I don't like two much are;

Alice Springs, it makes it too easy to seize the map and its continent, mabye divide the springs into two, then increase the bonus of the northern territory, or just decrease the bonus of western australia by one.

Queensland should either be a bonus of four, have a territory added, or separate Brisbane and Western Downs, because they are to easy to get, esspecially when they are together.

[Teya]

I like the map & agree with BD Juzza.
Also, I think changing anything in western australia or northern territory is just going round in circles. Just leave it as is.

[sfhbballnut]

wow fastest map work I've ever seen, nice job. Have you tried playing it yet?

[Hoff]

west australia and south australia look very similar in color...

[sfhbballnut]

Its different enough and it looks good overall

[Marvaddin]

west australia and south australia look very similar in color...

If you mean South Australia and Victoria, I agree.
I know why South Australia is given a higher bonus. But dont you think, again, the Victoria area is too strong? 4 minor continents and 2 big ones, no much interesting from begginning. So Victoria can waste 2 of those other small continents... and taking S Australia, 9 countries, 3 borders only, bonus of 6!

Only to mention, I still feel the lack of a medium cont.

[KEYOGI]

west australia and south australia look very similar in color...

If you mean South Australia and Victoria, I agree.
I know why South Australia is given a higher bonus. But dont you think, again, the Victoria area is too strong? 4 minor continents and 2 big ones, no much interesting from begginning. So Victoria can waste 2 of those other small continents... and taking S Australia, 9 countries, 3 borders only, bonus of 6!

Only to mention, I still feel the lack of a medium cont.

What consitutes a medium continent? As far as I'm concerned, there's 2 large, 3 medium and 1 small. I could attempt to take one from another state and add it to New South Wales, making one with 6.

Bonus numbers are easily changed, I felt they needed to be adjusted to reflect the border changes. They might not be right, but that's what the threads for... discussion. Offer your opinion of what bonus numbers should be.

I'm sick of going backwards and forwards with this map. There seems to be an "either-or" option and none of them are ideal. It's just the restrictions of the map and it's borders. I think I'll wait and see if Andy has anything to add before considering any other changes.

[Marvaddin]

I forgot to say... I think the background is almost invisible... Did I mention it already?

I think:
3 countries - tiny continent
4-5 - small
6-7 - medium
8-9 - big
10+ - gigantic
But its only the way I think...

I like the higher bonus to South Australia, I can say. The problem is victoria, its very strong, since it can prevent other areas from being held. What to do? maybe reduce Victoria bonus to 1? Or increase N. Territory to 4 and put S. Australia to 3? I dont know exactly what to do... like you said, there are some options, but none is perfect. Maybe leave it as it is. Opinions?

[happysadfun]

Its different enough and it looks good overall

Except Alice Springs area

[Rednaxela]

Youv'e done a good job Keyogi cant wait to play.

I have one idea to add. Maybe make all the capital cities stand out with bold lettering or something like that. Then have bonuses for holding 3 or more of them, say like
3 capitals = 3 armies
4 capitals = 4 armies
5 capitals = 5 armies ......................................................
and so on etc.
It would reflect the fact that most of the population here in Aus lives in the capital cities.

My 2 cents worth.

[Hoff]

west australia and south australia look very similar in color...

If you mean South Australia and Victoria, I agree.

No I think Victoria is fine, victoria is green. While west and south australia are both a yellowish color. One slightly more orange then the other. I think fiddling around with the shading should make the difference more noticable. Or ifyou can fix it, maybe move the colors around so that they arent next to each other.

[KEYOGI]

I've been putting some thought into the map and what people have said.

Two things I don't like two much are;

Alice Springs, it makes it too easy to seize the map and its continent, mabye divide the springs into two, then increase the bonus of the northern territory, or just decrease the bonus of western australia by one.

Queensland should either be a bonus of four, have a territory added, or separate Brisbane and Western Downs, because they are to easy to get, esspecially when they are together.

Northern Territory was modified to make it easier to defend... I've already gone backwards and forwards on this. I think it's fine, but it's my map.

Queensland could have a territory removed, but that buggers up the numbers. There's not really any more room to add more countries/territories.

I know why South Australia is given a higher bonus. But dont you think, again, the Victoria area is too strong? 4 minor continents and 2 big ones, no much interesting from begginning. So Victoria can waste 2 of those other small continents... and taking S Australia, 9 countries, 3 borders only, bonus of 6! Shocked

I'm very restricted here by the natural borders in place, but how about removing Hobart from Victoria and making it a continent (the state of Tasmania) all by itself with a bonus of 1? No bonus at all? It's the only way I can think of to reduce the power of Victoria. I dont' know, opinions?

To Rednaxela, a very interesting idea, but I don't think it has a place on this map. It might be better suited to another map.

And finally, on the colours... I don't see a problem with them. On my monitor they are:

Western Australia = Gold
South Australia = Lime
Victoria = Green
New South Wales = Blue
Queensland = Purple/Pink
Northern Territory = Tan

If they are that big of an issue I can adjust them.

So to sum up the changes I feel could be made:
- Make a continent of Tasmania for Hobart, reducing the power of Victoria
- Remove a country in Queensland
- Adjust Northern Territory countries, but I really don't see the point, it's going backwards
- Adjust colours for continents

I really do feel that this map has acheived as much as it can, with the exception of some minor changes. I'll say it again, I feel making a map of Australia and keeping it geographically accurate (as much as possible) is very restricting. If it's not good enough for Conquer Club it's not good enough, I'm not going to cry about it.

Final forge or the rubbish bin?

[gavin_sidhu]

did you mean to put similar coloured continents next to each other, or was that more at random? If it was random, maybe swap the continent colours to fix peoples confustion.

[Teya]

I dont have any problem with any of the colours. Are people having problems with the key? or the actual countries?
Also, to make victoria weaker you could always add another bridge.... between riverina and gippsland, or riverina and grampians.
I dont think it matters though, it can already be attacked from 2 countries.

[Marvaddin]

I dislike the idea of the Tazmania state, it would do it even more powerful. maybe another connection... Hobart - Perth, maybe, but so removing one of the other borders of Western Australia.

About colours, to me they are:
Western Australia = yellow
South Australia = Light green
Victoria = Green
New South Wales = Blue
Queensland = Pink
Northern Territory = orange

So, for what 2 green ones, when you can use red, brown, gray, etc? And even worse adjacent ones.

Adjust NT: unnecessary
Remove 1 from Queensland... maybe, but adding where?

[Teya]

I dont see victoria as being too strong. Its the same as south america in the classic map.

[KEYOGI]

did you mean to put similar coloured continents next to each other, or was that more at random? If it was random, maybe swap the continent colours to fix peoples confustion.

I was trying to reflect the climate of the land and mix in a bit of state colours.

Most of the country is desert, thus the gold and browns of WA and NT. SA is bit of mix, mostly desert but some nicer lands to the south near the coast. QLD, NSW and VIC were all meant to roughly reflect state colours, expect NSW and VIC are both blue, so I had to play around a bit. With Tasmania being green, I tried to incorporate that into VIC.

As for the more recent suggestions, I think adding a bridge is the only way to reduce Victoria's power, but as Teya pointed out, it's the same as South America on the classic. The only real difference is, it's not having to defend/attack a large continent like North America.

I don't see any other changes can be made to the states. They seem about right to me now, but if it really is that bad for playability I guess the map is no good. No harm in trying.

On the colour issue, what if SA is made a red colour? Would that solve it?

[gavin_sidhu]

leave the colours i think, if u change south australia, it will look too much like nt and wa.

[KEYOGI]

Ok, I guess I'll just leave it as is. If Andy has the time to go over it at any point and suggests any changes, I'll go from there.

[AndyDufresne]

Hm, well this map is coming along, I can surely say that much.

Regarding some of the various topics of discussion, it does seem like Alice Springs makes the west a little to easy to hold, but there hasn't been many ideas on how to make everything work 'properly'. Anyways, taking a closer look at the layout...

Strategies I see right away:

• South Expansion -- Grabbing one of the continents the south, and expanding into the others seems like one the most sure fire plan to victory. But if others see this also, it could easily become a nice little confrontation area.
• Queensland Hold -- It is a rather nice size continent, with a decent value and number of borders as it is. I think this area can surely help keep the South Expansion (in New South Wales at least) in check a little.
• Western Grab -- One of the more daunting strategies, due to the sheer size the west continent. But with people fighting it out in the east, it could be viable in some games. If you manage to take the west, and limit your borders, you can cut the map nearly in half, (and also keep the South Expsansion in check in South Australia).

Really it seems like the main strategies I see manage to keep all the other ones in check. Does anyone else agree with that?


Few things I'd look into:

• Broken Hill...can it attack Brisbane? The river seems to cut off a corner, making it so it can't, but could you perhaps extend the river a little wider in Western Downs to make it more obvious?
• Many people dislike dead end countries. Perhaps consider adding a route from Hobart -- Gippsland ... as it makes sense geographically and logically if Hobart is connected to Melbourne.
• Definitely look into a different style of mountains. They just don't seem to fit with the map
• Maybe revise the title color, perhaps a little more of a sand/earth/dirt color feel? Maybe even perhaps a texture (as long as it doesn't detract). Also perhaps move the bonus legend a little south, away from the title.

Other thoughts from anyone? How does everyone feel about the bonuses?

Good job thus far Key, you've got some great artistic skills and the map is coming together. Recently, Jas_in_obit contacted me saying he would have a revised version of his map within the next few days, just thought I would let everyone know that!


--Andy

[KEYOGI]

Thanks for those comments, I now have something to work with.

No, Broken Hill can't attack Brisbane, it's something I will fix.

[KEYOGI]

I've attempted to solve the colour issues by making the continents more vibrant. As a consequence, I've had to change the font for countries.

I also lightened the blue for the ocean.

The Brisbane border has been fixed.

Added a sea-route from Gippsland to Hobart.

Mountains were changed, though I'm still not really happy with them, so opinons on mountains would be great.

I'm re-working the key and title and so on, so I just left them off for now so I could post the changes made to the actual map.

[cowshrptrn]

It hink you have WAAY too many boundaries in this map. I suggest shortening the mountains so it only blocks Western Downs- Adelaide and allows for adelaide-broken hill.

[Marvaddin]

I like the new background, the new texture, new mountains, and the new font is ok.

I still dislike S. Australia colour... its not a colour I can name, its not yellow, and not green... I would change it, or at least test other ones.

The region with Mt Gambier, Adelaide, Grampians and Melbourne is a bit crowded... for example, Grampians looks like Mt. Gambier name, at 1st sight. Maybe you can change some borders, to add more room to some territories. Coober Pedy has many wasted space you could use to give Adelaide, and so make Mt Gambier bigger, etc.

If you dislike the way of the old splitted map, why are continents borders giving them aspect of puzzle pieces? And maybe you can reduce the aura around Australia

[KEYOGI]

It hink you have WAAY too many boundaries in this map. I suggest shortening the mountains so it only blocks Western Downs- Adelaide and allows for adelaide-broken hill.

Sorry, I don't understand your comments. The mountains block any attack route between Adelaide and Broken Hill. Adelaide cannot attack Western Downs.

The region with Mt Gambier, Adelaide, Grampians and Melbourne is a bit crowded... for example, Grampians looks like Mt. Gambier name, at 1st sight. Maybe you can change some borders, to add more room to some territories. Coober Pedy has many wasted space you could use to give Adelaide, and so make Mt Gambier bigger, etc.

If you dislike the way of the old splitted map, why are continents borders giving them aspect of puzzle pieces? And maybe you can reduce the aura around Australia Wink

I agree with the comments about the clutter, but I can't do much with it that would make any difference. If I give it a different name, it might help. My suggestions would be Eureka or Bendigo, nothing else in that region is short enough to fit.

The "puzzle pieces" look. That wasn't the aim, but it was to help distinguish between continents, since there were a few having trouble identifying between colours.