Europa [Quenched]

[MrBenn]

in europe there is no british isles....Its the United Kingdom and the republic of ireland has nothing to do with the UK. please change this

No thanks. Rep. Ireland is not part of the UK, and I want to keep the British Countries as they are - especially as I live in England

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands?

What about this?

Sorry...
I'll look at that when I redo the legend. Cyprus was orignally brown, which is why there is brown on there...

1. so is greece part of the islands continent?
2. It doesn't seem like it should be. And, if it is, I think it needs to be more clear.

3. The BeNeLux colour is better now.

4. I'd say you should show more of corsica's colour and not block it with the army rectangle and the label. Make it easy to see right away that it's red.

5. I'd say make that part of russia (kalingrad?) be grey. So, just make it non-playable. Otherwise you'd have to mention somewhere it's part of Russia. I don't think it adds to gameplay. I know you're trying to be accurate with the map so lets hear other opinions.

1. No
2. The Med Islands are going to be confusing too If I go ahead with that bonus, then they will all be in two continents... the one that corresponds to their colour, and the Med Islands one too.
3. Thanks - it was an easy fix
4. Good suggestion - I'll move the Corsica label - I think that's the easist thing to do.
5. I'm not sure - but lets hear other opinions

[iancanton]

The BeNeLux colour is better now.

have similar colours been deliberately positioned beside each other? red is beside pink, orange is beside peach, deep green is beside pale green and deep blue beside pale blue.

I'd say make that part of russia (kalingrad?) be grey. So, just make it non-playable. Otherwise you'd have to mention somewhere it's part of Russia. I don't think it adds to gameplay. I know you're trying to be accurate with the map so lets hear other opinions.

qwert is having similar problems with creta & cyrenaica territory on his imperium romanum map. here, we have three brown countries with exclaves: russia has kaliningrad, turkey has thrace and azerbaijan has nakichevan. the latter two have had artificial land bridges added, but it's impractical to do this with russia. would the purpose of a brown dotted line connecting each exclave with its mother country be more obvious if there were three of them instead of just one? in other words, how about removing the land bridges (for turkey and azerbaijan) and using brown dotted lines for all three of these countries?

the border between albania and serbia needs to be lengthened a bit to be properly visible. perhaps this can be done by shifting macedonia slightly to the right. otherwise, the balkans is a great improvement on before.

ian.

[edbeard]

1. so is greece part of the islands continent?

1. No

so then it's not part of anything? I hate those type of countries for maps.

Are you adding a crete-greece-cyprus bonus or something? I don't get the sudden colour change and I didn't see an explanation. Ok now I just saw this

- The Balkan States- to get a bonus for this area, I'm contemplating having a 'hold any 6 or 7' (out of 10) requirement, instead of having to hold the whole thing??

so maybe the colour change was a mistake since the numbered territories only go up to 8. Greece and crete would make 10 and I'm not sure where cyprus would fit. Maybe with the transcontinental?

[Qwert]

Aim from balkan,and i know that Grece is a part of Balkan

[hulmey]

in europe there is no british isles....Its the United Kingdom and the republic of ireland has nothing to do with the UK. please change this

No thanks. Rep. Ireland is not part of the UK, and I want to keep the British Countries as they are - especially as I live in England

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands?

What about this?

Sorry...
I'll look at that when I redo the legend. Cyprus was orignally brown, which is why there is brown on there...

1. so is greece part of the islands continent?
2. It doesn't seem like it should be. And, if it is, I think it needs to be more clear.

3. The BeNeLux colour is better now.

4. I'd say you should show more of corsica's colour and not block it with the army rectangle and the label. Make it easy to see right away that it's red.

5. I'd say make that part of russia (kalingrad?) be grey. So, just make it non-playable. Otherwise you'd have to mention somewhere it's part of Russia. I don't think it adds to gameplay. I know you're trying to be accurate with the map so lets hear other opinions.

1. No
2. The Med Islands are going to be confusing too If I go ahead with that bonus, then they will all be in two continents... the one that corresponds to their colour, and the Med Islands one too.
3. Thanks - it was an easy fix
4. Good suggestion - I'll move the Corsica label - I think that's the easist thing to do.
5. I'm not sure - but lets hear other opinions

well, your not offering a true representation of "Europa". Should'nt we be sticking to true represnation of europe!?!?! plus i was probably living there before you were born lol (jut one of the lucky ones the get away)

[The Viking]

Wait, hulmey what are you suggesting be done?

[MrBenn]

Update!

Here's what I've done:
- The legend has been reworked - I think it's easier to read, and the title fits the style of the rest of the map
- The Med Islands colouring is sorted (I hope), and I've added in another key at the bottom.
- I've modified the style of the territory names, and I think they look a bit more balanced, and seem a bit smoother
- The name/shadow on Corsica has been tweaked to make it more visible
- The texture in the background has been fiddled a bit.

[MrBenn]

edit:

[RjBeals]

Should benelux really be +2? or what about +1?
I like that the bonus amounts are added on the small map. Why didn't you make the small map bigger by moving the title off the legend?

[zimmah]

The Netherlands are after refered to as NL, and not ne, so i'd rather see nl on the key.

[InkL0sed]

Is there any reason why nothing is capitalized?

[AndyDufresne]

Could you put your text above the image, MrBenn? Just so the junk on the right doesn't fall onto the map.

Forgive me if I am rehashing anything old, I've been unfortunately having to devote more time outside the Foundry because of the update!

Does Corsica have a border with Sardinia? If it does, maybe add another little dot below Corsica.

And does Greece have a border with Crete? Another dot or two should do it...

I'd consider moving the route from Crete to Sicily up a little from the Malta name, just so it isn't close to touching it. (And looking at all the dots now, maybe go for a little more consistency...make sure a dot is near the edge of island or landmass, kind of like how it is near Spain.)

Did the Alps leave this map? I see them in the legend, but not on the map.

In the legend, you now have a bonus for 5 of the Med. Islands, so you could add the
+3 to the gray area on the mini map were the text is on the real map.

Also regarding the legend, I wish you could enlarge it a little left and a little down, even if only a few pixels. I feel like everyting is crammed into there. It'd be nice to see some more room between the impassables and the bonuses. Also regarding the Bonuses, maybe consider justifying the text to the left, and the numbers all to the right of the rectangle.

White army shadows I like the best also I think.

Well...suppose I must be going now! Good work, good luck.


--Andy

[InkL0sed]

I can't tell if Corsica borders France or Monaco...

[Joodoo]

1.Greenland's not part of Europe.
2.Add Kaliningrad as a territory and include it in the Transcontinental bonus (makes gameplay trickier). A sea route from Kaliningrad to mainland Russia would be nice. In case anyone doesn't know, it's that brown territory that borders Lithuania and Poland only.
3.Graphics can be improved.
it looks pretty nice, would be looking forward to playing it someday

[oaktown]

I'll nod my head to everything Andy said, including the part about not keeping up with this thread lately. Apologies for any repetition.

A slightly larger mini-map would be helpful - it's quite bunched up, and maybe you could don't need the individual territory borders in the mini-map.

As it seems you may have dumped the alps as an impassable, you could drop the line in the legend entirely if instead of breaking it in two parts you extended the Danube to be one continuous river spanned by some kind of bridge or arrow.

The color of the Greek region looks an awful lot like the water color to me... yep, bad eyes.

I probably missed what the dead areas are, above Poland and between Switz and Austria. Ooh, one is lt - that needs an arrow of some kind.

Are you ready to talk bonuses? Transcontinental only has two border to protect, right? Seems like a +3 rather than a +4 - it's the same size as the British Isles. The West is high at +5 as well. I'll look at the rest when I'm more awake.

[Ruben Cassar]

Update!

Ben I must say that this is the best regional grouping you've used since the start of this map.

[*]BeNeLux - The colour of these states needs to change. It's too similar to that of Central Europe.
[*]Liechtenstein - Is it that tiny dot between Austria and Switzerland? I thought Liechtenstein also connected with Germany in real life.
[*]Mediterranean Islands - Nice touch. I like it.
[*]Italy - Have you removed the mountain non passable range? Will you be adding this one again?

[MrBenn]

Thanks for the comments/feedback - It's all good

I'll put my replies into a couple of categories/common themes, and then post a couple of individual responses... Again, if I've missed your comment, please nudge me again!

Thanks

1. The Alps.
They should be on the map, but I think I just hid that layer by mistake on the last update Having said that, I quite like the look of the map without them?? Unless there is major outcry, they'll stay!

2. Ocean Routes
I will smarten these up and clarify the attack routes etc. on my next update. I haven't changed them for a while, but I've been redrawing borders and land positions which has made them look wrong and a bit messy.
In the meantime, Corsica is linked to Monaco and Sardinia. Crete is linked to Greece, Cyprus and Sicily.

3. Region Colours
I always knew that the two oranges (Benelux/Central Europe) would cause some problems, and I thought I'd got the middle-ground of the Hellenic blue... I'll tweak the colours a bit on the next update.

4. Isolated Areas
Liechtenstein... if it bordered Germany, I could stretch the size easily. I thought I'd drawn an arrow on an early version... I may have deleted/hidden it, but I'll draw another one

Kaliningrad (the brown bit between poland/Lithuania) is by biggest concern at the moment. This Russian exclave is too small to be a seperate territory (there isn't enough room to fit name and number), and I'm torn about how it will work

5. Mini-Map / Legend
I'll make these both a bit bigger. I've tried putting the title elsewhere, but it didn't look right. I'll have another play around and think about it some more.

6. Army Shadows
I prefer the look of the white shadows, but I'm contemplating mixing dark shadows on light areas... would this help #3 above??

7. Territories etc.
My initial goal was to represent Europe exactly as it really is, with every European country on it... the problem is that nobody can define Europe! Do we take a geographical stand-point? If so, tectonic or otherwise? Do we use membership of the EU? or trading agreements? As soon as we get political, then whose opinion should we use? The map here, is comprehensively European, even if it does contain a couple of borderline/self-professed European areas.

There have been 30 pages of discussion about territory groupings, and this is definitely the best yet. Yes, we could still spend hours/weeks debating whether Cyprus should be grouped with Greece or Turkey; whether Greece should really be in the Balkans; whether Greenland is part of Europe or not; whether the transcontinental areas should be on the map; and so on, but I think this is the best compromise that will be reached.

If you have a suggestion to make, please do, but be aware that it may have been discussed before

[MrBenn]

the border between albania and serbia needs to be lengthened a bit to be properly visible. perhaps this can be done by shifting macedonia slightly to the right. otherwise, the balkans is a great improvement on before.

ian.

Good catch Ian.

[MrBenn]

The Netherlands are after refered to as NL, and not ne, so i'd rather see nl on the key.

OK - makes sense to me

Is there any reason why nothing is capitalized?

I like it this way

[MrBenn]

3.Graphics can be improved.
it looks pretty nice, would be looking forward to playing it someday

Thanks, I think

[MrBenn]

Are you ready to talk bonuses? Transcontinental only has two border to protect, right? Seems like a +3 rather than a +4 - it's the same size as the British Isles. The West is high at +5 as well. I'll look at the rest when I'm more awake.

Should benelux really be +2? or what about +1?

Yes! I think that we're down to graphical tweaking now, so gameplay/bonus discussion can go forth in earnest!
Some of the current bonus values are left over from different continent groupings, and I haven't put a lot of thought int the current ones.

[Fitz69]

Like the map!

A few issues though:

Kaliningrad: If you remove the minimap and resize the the legend a bit you should have more room to shift "Estonia" and "Latvia" to the upper right position and "Lithuania" to the right. This way you can get room for "Kaliningrad" in the upper left position.

Minimap: Is'nt the small map redundant? The legend should say it all. (Other maps are out there that could use one though.)

Europa: Inconsistent spelling. All the countries are spelled using english nomenclature and the continent the germanic. I suggest switching the "a" for a "e".

[Qwert]

whether Greece should really be in the Balkans

I realy,realy want to know source where you find that Grecce is not a part of Balkan,because Balkan is not peninsula without Grecce.(ofcourse you can ignore again,like you ignore previous post)

[Joop]

I don't think the minimap should go.

[Joop]

whether Greece should really be in the Balkans

I realy,realy want to know source where you find that Grecce is not a part of Balkan,because Balkan is not peninsula without Grecce.(ofcourse you can ignore again,like you ignore previous post)

Culturally one could say it isn't.