Logic dictates that there is a God!

Paulicus · Post by **Paulicus** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:29 pm

Backglass wrote:
Paulicus wrote:I think sometimes those devout who turn atheists somtime never had found God... just felowship and a group of people who acepted them, but over time it wasn't enough, others maybe just didn't get what they asked for in prayer, got mad and left.. who knows but they??
Or, maybe they just came to their senses.

The one thing I ask to atheists is.. putting all divinity aside for a moment and just looking at values and a way of life. Why be so against a way of living that suports treating others with equality, love, compassion and against all acts that could hurt society on a whole?

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:49 pm

Paulicus wrote:
Backglass wrote:
Paulicus wrote:I think sometimes those devout who turn atheists somtime never had found God... just felowship and a group of people who acepted them, but over time it wasn't enough, others maybe just didn't get what they asked for in prayer, got mad and left.. who knows but they??
Or, maybe they just came to their senses.
The one thing I ask to atheists is.. putting all divinity aside for a moment and just looking at values and a way of life. Why be so against a way of living that suports treating others with equality, love, compassion and against all acts that could hurt society on a whole?

good question.

slash1890 · Post by **slash1890** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:09 pm

Paulicus wrote: The one thing I ask to atheists is.. putting all divinity aside for a moment and just looking at values and a way of life. Why be so against a way of living that suports treating others with equality, love, compassion and against all acts that could hurt society on a whole?

You mean, besides everyone who isn't like you?

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:22 pm

Paulicus wrote:The one thing I ask to atheists is.. putting all divinity aside for a moment and just looking at values and a way of life. Why be so against a way of living that suports treating others with equality, love, compassion and against all acts that could hurt society on a whole?

<sigh>

Huh? Nobody, especially athiests are against your way of life. Once again I will reply with the same answer for the third time in this thread. Please try to follow along this time:

Athiests are not against anything. We just dont believe there are gods. One does not have to go to a church and participate in rituals in order to treat others with love & compassion.

That's it. Nothing more.

Again ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION. This is obviously very difficult for christians to comprehend. We dont have churchs, meetings or mens study groups. We only have one thing in common. We dont think that gods exist.

So...becaue we dont think gods exists, right away you assume that atheists are AGAINST all that you believe in? Well we arent.

I have three kids. My wife bakes great cookies for the kindergarden class. I mow my lawn every weekend. I take my boy to his soccer games. I like to have a beer & watch the football game. I have a good job. I want Bin Laden caught & dealt with. I want our troops to come home. I want to protect our fine nation. I vote.

We are just like you except we dont believe there are gods...from any religion. We think it's all superstition & fairy tales.

Thats all. Really.

strike wolf · Post by **strike wolf** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:28 pm

I have nothing personally against athiest that's just how they live. However some of the athiests themselves get on my nerves because I feel that a lot of the time they are going out of their ways to disprove religion.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:42 pm

Backglass wrote:
Paulicus wrote:The one thing I ask to atheists is.. putting all divinity aside for a moment and just looking at values and a way of life. Why be so against a way of living that suports treating others with equality, love, compassion and against all acts that could hurt society on a whole?
<sigh>

Huh? Nobody, especially athiests are against your way of life. Once again I will reply with the same answer for the third time in this thread. Please try to follow along this time:

Athiests are not against anything. We just dont believe there are gods. One does not have to go to a church and participate in rituals in order to treat others with love & compassion.

That's it. Nothing more.

Again ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION.

Christianity is not a religion either. Its a relationship.

This is obviously very difficult for christians to comprehend. We dont have churchs, meetings or mens study groups. We only have one thing in common. We dont think that gods exist.

So...becaue we dont think gods exists, right away you assume that atheists are AGAINST all that you believe in? Well we arent.

I have three kids. My wife bakes great cookies for the kindergarden class. I mow my lawn every weekend. I take my boy to his soccer games. I like to have a beer & watch the football game. I have a good job. I want Bin Laden caught & dealt with. I want our troops to come home. I want to protect our fine nation. I vote.

You just don't have a relationship with your creator.

We are just like you except we dont believe there are gods...from any religion. We think it's all superstition & fairy tales.

Thats all. Really.

Way to knock someone else's beliefs! You "say" you aren't against Christianity... yet with almost every post you have a snide remark about our beliefs. "Whoever is not for me, is against me." You my friend, are against God wether you acknowledge His existence or not.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:43 pm

strike wolf wrote:I have nothing personally against athiest that's just how they live. However some of the athiests themselves get on my nerves because I feel that a lot of the time they are going out of their ways to disprove religion.

And I have nothing personally against christians, that's just how they live. However some of the christians themselves get on my nerves because I feel that a lot of the time they are going out of their ways to push religion on the rest of the world.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:46 pm

Paulicus wrote: The one thing I ask to atheists is.. putting all divinity aside for a moment and just looking at values and a way of life. Why be so against a way of living that suports treating others with equality, love, compassion and against all acts that could hurt society on a whole?

Mostly because the same way of living encourages evangelism (the process of forcing someone to listen to your beliefs while ignoring the possibility that they may have their own beliefs), the shunning and conversion of non-christians, and the overall polarization of the nation by passing laws based on Christian precepts.

strike wolf · Post by **strike wolf** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:46 pm

Well duh blackglass that's our jobs.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:53 pm

jay_a2j wrote:Christianity is not a religion either. Its a relationship.

Whatever makes you feel better about yourself jay.

jay_a2j wrote:You just don't have a relationship with your creator.

Not true. I have a very good relationship with my parents.

jay_a2j wrote:Way to knock someone else's beliefs! You "say" you aren't against Christianity... yet with almost every post you have a snide remark about our beliefs.

Hello pot, I'm kettle!

jay_a2j wrote:"Whoever is not for me, is against me." You my friend, are against God wether you acknowledge His existence or not.

<sigh> Fourth time. I am not against gods. I just dont think they exist. None of them. Shiva, poseiden, ra, your nameless god, you name it. You cannot be against something you dont believe exists.

Again...why are you against Santa Claus? Why do you hate him so?

"He who does not eat green eggs and ham, does not like them...Sam I am." Thats means about as much sense to me as your quotes jay.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:58 pm

The difference? God exists and Santa doesn't. I will never stand in front of Santa and hear him say, "Depart from me! I never knew you!" . But I will someday stand in front of God, and if I'm not right with Him I will hear Him say thoses words.

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:01 pm

jay_a2j wrote:The difference? God exists and Santa doesn't. I will never stand in front of Santa and hear him say, "Depart from me! I never knew you!" . But I will someday stand in front of God, and if I'm not right with Him I will hear Him say thoses words.

I think his point, jay, is that he doesn't agree with you on the part that I bolded.

If you look at it in THAT manner you will clearly be able to see the difference.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:04 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:If you look at it in THAT manner you will clearly be able to see the difference.

Don't be so sure, I don't have much faith in his ability to see the whole picture.

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:06 pm

vtmarik wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:If you look at it in THAT manner you will clearly be able to see the difference.
Don't be so sure, I don't have much faith in his ability to see the whole picture.

Jay, I encourage you to attempt to see the whole picture of his side of the argument. You can never hope to gain much ground if you fight blindfolded.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:12 pm

Paulicus wrote: The one thing I ask to atheists is.. putting all divinity aside for a moment and just looking at values and a way of life. Why be so against a way of living that suports treating others with equality, love, compassion and against all acts that could hurt society on a whole?

Assuming you are asking out of genuine curiosity, you should be aware that some Christians (and other religionists) tend to hold opinions on general society that conflict with those of moderate religionists and atheists, such as abortion, capital punishment, how the state and religion should interact (eg, should religion be taught in schools, and how?), terrorism and so on and so forth.

So you see, even if everyone could agree to leave each other alone on the points of religion (and you should be aware that Christians and Muslims can't leave anyone alone, and for good reason), they can still conflict on politics. So there's plenty there. Also, note which group starts each thread on this forum.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:13 pm

Stopper wrote:Assuming you are asking out of genuine curiosity, you should be aware that some Christians (and other religionists) tend to hold opinions on general society that conflict with those of moderate religionists and atheists, such as abortion, capital punishment, how the state and religion should interact (eg, should religion be taught in schools, and how?), terrorism and so on and so forth.

So you see, even if everyone could agree to leave each other alone on the points of religion (and you should be aware that Christians and Muslims can't leave anyone alone, and for good reason), they can still conflict on politics. So there's plenty there. Also, note which group starts each thread on this forum.

Well, I've started one or two, but then again...

I'm in neither camp.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:14 pm

jay_a2j wrote:The difference? God exists and Santa doesn't. I will never stand in front of Santa and hear him say, "Depart from me! I never knew you!" . But I will someday stand in front of God, and if I'm not right with Him I will hear Him say thoses words.

OK jay. If thats what you need to survive, enjoy yourself. I dont.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:I think his point, jay, is that he doesn't agree with you on the part that I bolded. :Razz:

If you look at it in THAT manner you will clearly be able to see the difference.

Thanks Ambrose. They are equally as silly to me. Imagine you were transported back to ancient egypt, and everyone worshipped the sun, told you to worship the sun, live your life for the sun and quoted scriptures from ancient texts about the sun god and how it would judge you if you didnt please it. You'd look around and say "surely these wacko's cant be serious!". Of course we know that a sun god doesnt exist and was just a manifestation of an ancient people to help explain the seasons, rain, crops & life's injustices. It made them feel better having something larger than themselves to look up to.

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:14 pm

Stopper wrote:Also, note which group starts each thread on this forum.

And look at how much fun we've all had!

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:16 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:And look at how much fun we've all had!

Yes, but some get very angry at "those damn athiests and their opinions!"...and then go right back and start another thread about god/jesus/creation.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:16 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Stopper wrote:Also, note which group starts each thread on this forum.
And look at how much fun we've all had!

*puts on his Droopy costume and waves a tiny flag*

[flatly] Whoopee...

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:18 pm

vtmarik wrote: Well, I've started one or two, but then again...

I'm in neither camp.

Yeeeessss, I haven't forgotten about that...

- most appropriate smiley I could find...

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Stopper wrote:Also, note which group starts each thread on this forum.
And look at how much fun we've all had!

LOL, I hope you voted "no" on that johnnyrotten thread...!

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:18 pm

Backglass wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:And look at how much fun we've all had!
Yes, but some get very angry at "those damn athiests and their opinions!"...and then go right back and start another thread and god/jesus/creation.

I look at it more as "SWEEEEEEEET! We've found something ELSE to debate on! Let's make ANOTHER thread!"

I'm sorry you guys don't enjoy this as much as I do

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:19 pm

Stopper wrote:Yeeeessss, I haven't forgotten about that... - most appropriate smiley I could find...

It works quite well.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:I look at it more as "SWEEEEEEEET! We've found something ELSE to debate on! Let's make ANOTHER thread!"

I'm sorry you guys don't enjoy this as much as I do

I enjoy it, but I don't have to look like I do dangit!

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:30 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
vtmarik wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:If you look at it in THAT manner you will clearly be able to see the difference.
Don't be so sure, I don't have much faith in his ability to see the whole picture.
Jay, I encourage you to attempt to see the whole picture of his side of the argument. You can never hope to gain much ground if you fight blindfolded.

lol wow. I am well aware that he does not believe God exists. So why does he continue to come into these kind of threads and do nothing but poke fun at Christian beliefs adding nothing to the debate what-so-ever. No logic, no substantial evidence, just "Santa doesn't exist". He needs to hang out in the callout section or General discussion or simply avoid threads he can't contribute to.

And if you want to side with the athiests by all means, but do not insinuate that I am "blind". I will not let someone attack my beliefs and sit by and say nothing. You do what suits you, but you're not me.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:33 pm

jay_a2j wrote:lol wow. I am well aware that he does not believe God exists. So why does he continue to come into these kind of threads and do nothing but poke fun at Christian beliefs adding nothing to the debate what-so-ever. No logic, no substantial evidence, just "Santa doesn't exist". He needs to hang out in the callout section or General discussion or simply avoid threads he can't contribute to.

Because humor is the weapon of the marginalized. Plus it's like poking your older sister, sure she'll smack you but you just gotta do it.

And if you want to side with the athiests by all means, but do not insinuate that I am "blind". I will not let someone attack my beliefs and sit by and say nothing. You do what suits you, but you're not me.

The battle lines are drawn.

*unfolds a picnic chair and starts muching on popcorn* And i've got premo seats!

Logic dictates that there is a God!

Does God exist?