jay_a2j wrote:OnlyAmbrose wrote:Again, we'll get to the Mary and saints thing later. Back to Confession:
jay_a2j wrote:This boils down to difference of beliefs based on scripture interpretation.
CONFESSIONAL:
James 5:16- Therefore, confess your sins to one another, that you may be healed.
confess your sins to
one another not a priest or minister. I can go directly to God and ask for forgiveness. I don't have to tell a priest so he can tell me if I say 10 hail Mary's I'll be absolved of that sin. That is ludacris. Jesus is our mediator to God not man.
And why, pray, can't a priest or minister be considered "one another"? Indeed, this piece of Biblical gold combined with the passage from John I provided in a prior post seems to indicate that ministers are the best people to confess your sins to- what's more, common sense would seem to dictate that if you are sinning, what better person to provide healing that a minister? I don't understand why it's ok for me to confess to anyone, just NOT a priest or a minister.
What's more, it should be noted that Jesus was a man. He commanded the disciples to carry out his work once he was gone, and if you deny THAT fact I will bust out more Bible verses than the software on this forum can safely handle
.
In addition, your rendition of confessions is almost ridiculously cynical- I can't speak for other Catholics on this matter, but I don't go to confession because I have to, I do so because I WANT to. Even if it were not "required", I think I would, because it is a truly glorious experience. I have lived far from a perfect life and committed sins beyond those which most Christians have, and a confession is the most gratifying and purifying experience I have ever had.
What's more, on a less Biblical note, the priests give darned good advice on how to combat your temptations. I know THAT from experience too. Confession cannot be said to be a bad thing on anyone's watch, not even fundamentalists'- if you were to look at it in a secular viewpoint, it's simply seeking council from a minister in your church. From a Biblical standpoint, there's sufficient ground to argue it and no ground to deny it.
And as a conclusion, I have yet to see you prove how the practice of Confession by the Catholic Church is against scripture, and thus how it denies "some Catholics" their Christianity.
The only thing that denies anyone of their Christianity is them not recieving Jesus as their Lord and Savior. And some Catholics fall into this category. I don't have a problem with confessing to a priest or minister.
But THEY cannot forgive my sin. Who has the power to forgive sin but God? This is what the Pharasies asked Jesus when He forgave sin. (not realizing that Jesus was in fact God) And no doubt that a priest or minister can give good counseling but I hold fast to their inability to forgive sin. WE are commanded to forgive the trespasses of others. That is when we are wronged. To forgive so that we may also be forgiven. Man does not have the power to absolve sin. And do you know what is written on the Pope's garment he wares? I don't know if its true, but I'll have to find it online and post it here to get your view.
I will agree with you on the bolded point. But then... many non-Catholics fall into such a category as well. Though I do not deny that the Catholic Church is particularly unhealthy in terms of the faith of its following. The most I can do to improve this count is participate at my parish and try to set hearts afire with love of God. In any event, it's a plague which I hardly think affects the Catholic Church alone.
Now for the underlined portion. It is through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ that we are forgiven. The actual words the priests say in the confessional generally are something resembling the following:
Rite of Absolution wrote:God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son, has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
You may deny it all you want, but the fact is that in the Bible, according to John, Jesus says thus:
"As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
It would seem to me that Jesus gives the disciples His power to forgive sins here. I fail to understand where there is room for you to claim that God did not give man the power to forgive sin when Jesus is quite clearly giving men the power to forgive sin right here.
And again, I have yet to see anything contrary to Scripture in this doctrine. Not that the absence of contrary evidence would automatically prove its validity, but you seemed to be claiming that it was a doctrine against Biblical teaching when you said the following:
jay_a2j wrote:There is some catholic doctrine that I find not lined up with scripture. (Praying to Mary/ Confessional are two examples)
So if you would like to try to prove that point before we continue, I'd appreciate it
As an aside, no, I'm not an expert on the Pope's wardrobe, sorry
Though I am interested in what you've got to say on the matter, so long as you address the above issues as well
EDIT-
Interesting statement there. Here's the wikipedia article, apparently it's something of a controversy... though since the Pope currently wears no such title I don't see the issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarius_Filii_Dei
I'm working from the same raw materials as you. All interpretation is opinion, and thus cannot be proven right or wrong. But that damn verse says "Women are inferior to men."
