Faith

[Stopper]

Well, technically the Catholic church was the first Christian church (considering that Paul was the first Pope).

I've never fully understood it myself, but just to be pedantic, couldn't you equally say the Eastern Orthodox Church is just as old as the Catholic, since it only became separate after the Great Schism of the 11th century?

[jay_a2j]

Ok first of all I'm not "putting women down". God has put man at the head of the house. Not that women are lesser then men or that men should rule over women.

Ok, now I know that you're making stuff up.

"11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

If someone is ordered to be submissive and quiet means that they're being ordered to shut up and do as they're told, how is that not making women lesser than men?

This passage says "Women are not allowed to have the same privileges as men because Eve tempted Adam and was created second to Adam. Women are thus unclean and sinful and therefore are permanently wicked. However, if a woman gives birth, she can be saved if she doesn't have sex again or violate the rules of silence and submission that I have laid upon her."

* In other words it tells women to stay home, shut up, and have babies because that's all they're good for. It also says that the saving upon giving birth isn't automatic. If she, say, wants to have a career after having kids or wants to teach then there's a problem.

Here's another question raised from that, if women in the Church aren't allowed to teach men why are there nuns rapping kids on the knuckles with rulers in parochial schools?

It is a position that God has appointed man within the household/church. (If memory serves me well the women used to not be allowed to sit with the men in the temple... someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to give inacurate information) Jesus is the head of the Church. Thats just the way God set it up.

No, Jesus was the sacrifice and returned to heaven, Paul was the head of the Church. That's why we have dogmatic law, "Whatever you hold true on Earth, I'll hold true in Heaven." If Jesus was the head of the Church, he would've come back by now pissed as all hell. "Alright, that's it, Jesus is taking over again. You morons fucked it all up!"

Ok this post is FULL of mis-information. I bolded the parts where you made up stuff as scripture and it is nowhere to be found in scripture.
Also the paragraph with the astric * is nothing more then your interpretation.

And I never said Catholics were not Christian. Some are, some aren't. (I believe I defended Catholics against Calebs rants) There is some catholic doctrine that I find not lined up with scripture. (Praying to Mary/ Confessional are two examples)

When believers say, "the Church", we mean all the people who have Faith in Jesus. Not a building or denomination. Jesus is the head of "the Church", we (Christians) are "the body". The Spirit of God dwells in the hearts of men/women not buildings.

[OwlLawyer]

Why won't you ever respond to my questions?

[jay_a2j]

I dont have any problem with females being pastors. Men are placed at the Head of the household, yes. But when a ministry like Joyce Meyers comes around, with Joyce Meyer as the head, I dont see an issue. God never said that women werent allowed to be pastors and such. At my church, its more out of respect for the pastor and his family, but sometimes, she teaches if the pastor is out of town. If they are annointed of God, let them speak.

My pastor's wife sometimes preaches (obviously having his permission). I myself would not attend a church with a woman as head pastor. (My interpretation of scripture I guess) I have heard women preach and some gave really good sermons. But I believe men should be head of the church.

[jay_a2j]

And what, exactly, does it mean that men are head of the house?


And please, someone answer me and justify why the Bible is to be read literally.

The man is responcible for the household. (I know its against feminism and all, but thats the way God wants it. You can run your household as God instructs or you can go by Hillary Clintons "It Takes a Village").


The Bible is the Word of God. Thats why.

[OwlLawyer]

The Bible is the Word of God. Thats why.

Which version?

[Jargo The Axe]

Hey about the Jesus Freak Clan thing I recently created a clan called the JC Warriors. I'm the admin. so if you're interested in joining pm me or check the thread and pos in general discussion. We've already been ridiculed so it would be nice to increase enrollment.

[OwlLawyer]

The Bible is the Word of God. Thats why.

Which version?

[jay_a2j]

The Bible is the Word of God. Thats why.

Which version?

All versions say the same thing. They just use different words (which mean the same thing). King James can be hard to understand with the Thee's and Thou's and such and other version just make reading easier. Its not like the different versions are different Books.

[OwlLawyer]

So I guess my question will be ignored now.

[Caleb the Cruel]

http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/LCMS/wa_ordinationofwomen.pdf

there, that should have the answers about women not being pastors

[jay_a2j]

Again,

The Bible is the Word of God. Thats why.

Which version?

All versions say the same thing. They just use different words (which mean the same thing). King James can be hard to understand with the Thee's and Thou's and such and other version just make reading easier. Its not like the different versions are different Books.

[OwlLawyer]

LMAO... do you ever think for yourself?

[OwlLawyer]

All versions say the same thing. They just use different words (which mean the same thing). King James can be hard to understand with the Thee's and Thou's and such and other version just make reading easier. Its not like the different versions are different Books.

What about deutorocanonicals?

Who chose those books?

What about books that were rejected?


How do you choose what is the Bible?

[OwlLawyer]

Caleb, when you touch the bed of a woman with her period, do you wash yourself and your clothes immediately?

[jay_a2j]

All versions say the same thing. They just use different words (which mean the same thing). King James can be hard to understand with the Thee's and Thou's and such and other version just make reading easier. Its not like the different versions are different Books.

What about deutorocanonicals?

Who chose those books?

What about books that were rejected?


How do you choose what is the Bible?

As someone who believe that God oversee's everything, I am content with the Bible the way it is. If God had wanted any of those "missing books" to be studied and followed I have no doubt in my mind they would have been included in the 66 books of the Bible.

[Caleb the Cruel]

Caleb, when you touch the bed of a woman with her period, do you wash yourself and your clothes immediately?

is that in the Bible?

[Jargo The Axe]

OwlLawyer wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
All versions say the same thing. They just use different words (which mean the same thing). King James can be hard to understand with the Thee's and Thou's and such and other version just make reading easier. Its not like the different versions are different Books.


What about deutorocanonicals?

Who chose those books?

What about books that were rejected?


How do you choose what is the Bible?




How? Well a group of respected Christian leaders gathered and gathered all the books that were used in the bible from all the churches around (this was quite a while ago) and voted on the books after weeks of prayer and diliberation. Some books wweren't even considered like the ones "The Divinci Code" is based on. (They read them and dismissed them) a basic criteria how widely they were used (thus the gospels were used) since almost everyone used them and those who didn't agreed that they were truth.

[Paulicus]

Soon afterward he went on through cities and villages, proclaiming and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3and Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them[a] out of their means

That's the point, Jesus did this to elevate womens role and respect in the society of the day, that they are not slaves but mans equal (in society).
But that is that context, it does not mean they will have the same role to play. Caleb brought up the military referrence.. but I think a sports reference is more accurate.. you don't see the defenceman (person) running up the field to score a goal, but the value of a person playing defence as oppossed to offence is non-existant.

[Jargo The Axe]

^^For the most part I agree if not totally. Women can have leadership roles. Who best to reach a woman then another woman? Yes a woman can be a pastor but primarilly men are the suggested. As Paulicus said everyone has a certain role.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Oh silly boy.... nuns are CATHOLIC! These fundamentalists aren't Catholic. They think nuns should be silent and submissive.

Oh right, I forgot the thing that Truman and Jay said about the Catholic Church not being Christian.

WHERE?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

Point out the post and I'll do my best to address it...

(Pardon me if I address it harshly- last time someone told me Catholics aren't Christians I was dating a nondenominational girl who subsuequently left me because I'm a Catholic "pagan"...)

[Jargo The Axe]

Ok I agree. Why aren't Catholics Christian? I'm not but still..... please explain your views.

[Paulicus]

Ok I agree. Why aren't Catholics Christian? I'm not but still..... please explain your views.

They fall under "christian" because Christ is their head.. but it can be argued that because of the pope being their leader and only he having the power to comunicate directly with Christ.. or something like that (I'm not catholic).. but the scripture does not say the church should be structured like this.

[Paulicus]

Caleb, when you touch the bed of a woman with her period, do you wash yourself and your clothes immediately?

is that in the Bible?

Yes it's the bible, but old testament.. Jesus changed this in the new.

[vtmarik]

WHERE?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

Point out the post and I'll do my best to address it...

(Pardon me if I address it harshly- last time someone told me Catholics aren't Christians I was dating a nondenominational girl who subsuequently left me because I'm a Catholic "pagan"...)

Oh it's on one of the middle pages of the "Logic Dictates there is a God" thread, not sure which.