Hell. Is it a real place?

[OnlyAmbrose]

but what do you make of it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... eism.shtml

Its a bunch of rubbish is what I make of it. Its one authors oppinion (yet he states them like they are facts).

Oh, you're right that this is just one author's opinion, but you should be aware that this kind of thought is not uncommon amongst certain people in Britain, and I dare say, the US...It was someone (I forget who, and I can't find it) who posted recently on either this thread or the "Logic Dictates..." who reminded me of it, because s/he said they only went to church because they liked the ritual, songs, community, etc..etc

Some saint once said that when two or more are gathered in God's name, His presence becomes infinitely more real. Said poster in the Logic Dictates thread loved Church for God and just didn't know it, imho

[2dimes]

Ah, but as it says on the site, you'll see that this is intellectually sophisticated cuckoo.

Fair enough.

[Stopper]

Some saint once said that when two or more are gathered in God's name, His presence becomes infinitely more real. Said poster in the Logic Dictates thread loved Church for God and just didn't know it, imho

But surely s/he and the others gathered either know there's a god or there isn't...I mean, I like a lot of Christian music (I'm talking hymns & Handel's Messiah here, not Christian Rock *vomit*) but I don't go to mass to listen to the stuff - I realise it's the product of human beings, human desires, and so on.

Oh, just remembered your other post...and I'd also say that moral grounding doesn't require going to church - we're born with some, & taught by our parents & society etc - and this is probably the socialist in me, but a sense of community etc, can be provided in other ways - religion isn't necessary, in my opinion, nor desirable.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Some saint once said that when two or more are gathered in God's name, His presence becomes infinitely more real. Said poster in the Logic Dictates thread loved Church for God and just didn't know it, imho

But surely s/he and the others gathered either know there's a god or there isn't...I mean, I like a lot of Christian music (I'm talking hymns & Handel's Messiah here, not Christian Rock *vomit*) but I don't go to mass to listen to the stuff - I realise it's the product of human beings, human desires, and so on.

I'm not sure I follow the first part. A lot of people are VERY much on the fence on the whole "God" issue, particularly Catholic teenagers, unfortunately. Reasons for attendence of church are quite varied... and unfortunately, often quite insincere. However, making music more appealing to youth generally means the youth enjoy the mass a bit more, which means they may actually pay attention and get something out of it.

Conversions are usually spiritual. However, there's a proverb I have highlighted in my Bible (which is not with me atm ) which states that any man who believes souly by what he feels is a fool. So while the conversion must be spiritual, it also must make sense to the person. /random tangent.

[Stopper]

Some saint once said that when two or more are gathered in God's name, His presence becomes infinitely more real. Said poster in the Logic Dictates thread loved Church for God and just didn't know it, imho

But surely s/he and the others gathered either know there's a god or there isn't...I mean, I like a lot of Christian music (I'm talking hymns & Handel's Messiah here, not Christian Rock *vomit*) but I don't go to mass to listen to the stuff - I realise it's the product of human beings, human desires, and so on.

I'm not sure I follow the first part. A lot of people are VERY much on the fence on the whole "God" issue, particularly Catholic teenagers, unfortunately. Reasons for attendence of church are quite varied... and unfortunately, often quite insincere. However, making music more appealing to youth generally means the youth enjoy the mass a bit more, which means they may actually pay attention and get something out of it.

Conversions are usually spiritual. However, there's a proverb I have highlighted in my Bible (which is not with me atm ) which states that any man who believes souly by what he feels is a fool. So while the conversion must be spiritual, it also must make sense to the person. /random tangent.

Argh, you're posting too quickly for me - I had just edited that post...By first part you mean church attendance? I have always assumed that church attendance should be grounded in spiritual/religious grounds and not the content of what the ritual actually provides...otherwise I can't see the point. The Non-Realists I posted about would say that simply attending church & and the errr...entertainment it provides is itself part of the point of religion.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Some saint once said that when two or more are gathered in God's name, His presence becomes infinitely more real. Said poster in the Logic Dictates thread loved Church for God and just didn't know it, imho

But surely s/he and the others gathered either know there's a god or there isn't...I mean, I like a lot of Christian music (I'm talking hymns & Handel's Messiah here, not Christian Rock *vomit*) but I don't go to mass to listen to the stuff - I realise it's the product of human beings, human desires, and so on.

I'm not sure I follow the first part. A lot of people are VERY much on the fence on the whole "God" issue, particularly Catholic teenagers, unfortunately. Reasons for attendence of church are quite varied... and unfortunately, often quite insincere. However, making music more appealing to youth generally means the youth enjoy the mass a bit more, which means they may actually pay attention and get something out of it.

Conversions are usually spiritual. However, there's a proverb I have highlighted in my Bible (which is not with me atm ) which states that any man who believes souly by what he feels is a fool. So while the conversion must be spiritual, it also must make sense to the person. /random tangent.

Argh, you're posting too quickly for me - I had just edited that post...By first part you mean church attendance? I have always assumed that church attendance should be grounded in spiritual/religious grounds and not the content of what the ritual actually provides...otherwise I can't see the point. The Non-Realists I posted about would say that simply attending church & and the errr...entertainment it provides is itself part of the point of religion.

And they are wrong

But that's not to say churches shouldn't take steps to make their services more engaging. An entertained audience is usually one who will listen to what you have to say.

[Stopper]

Argh, you're posting too quickly for me - I had just edited that post...By first part you mean church attendance? I have always assumed that church attendance should be grounded in spiritual/religious grounds and not the content of what the ritual actually provides...otherwise I can't see the point. The Non-Realists I posted about would say that simply attending church & and the errr...entertainment it provides is itself part of the point of religion.

And they are wrong

But that's not to say churches shouldn't take steps to make their services more engaging. An entertained audience is usually one who will listen to what you have to say.

Ah, right, well, I'm certainly in no position to argue with you on that second point, as higher church attendance is not something that I see as necessarily desirable, so I'll leave that to others...

[jay_a2j]

Ah, right, well, I'm certainly in no position to argue with you on that second point, as higher church attendance is not something that I see as necessarily desirable, so I'll leave that to others...

"not something that I see as necessarily desirable" hmmm and what do you see as desirable? A ban on the Bible? All churches torn down? Freedom of religion ended?

[OnlyAmbrose]

Ah, right, well, I'm certainly in no position to argue with you on that second point, as higher church attendance is not something that I see as necessarily desirable, so I'll leave that to others...

"not something that I see as necessarily desirable" hmmm and what do you see as desirable? A ban on the Bible? All churches torn down? Freedom of religion ended?

He's just stating his belief. On the same note, an increase in atheists is not something that I see as "necessarily desirable", but I'm hardly calling for a federal ban on atheism.

[dracojax]

personallly i say we are already in hell. for example take the greeting
hello there drop the o and t and you have hell here. strange but true.

[strike wolf]

Strange but irrelevant you mean.

[vtmarik]

Strange but irrelevant you mean.

Actually, i think some small group of Christians wanted to popularize "Heaveno" as a greeting at one time. I think i heard about it on NPR News around 1993-94.

[strike wolf]

Well now we bring some relevant material into it. Thanx VT.