Abortion

[bedub1]

"Supporters of Virginia's ban say it would stop the practice of killing infants moments after they are prematurely delivered."
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/virginia ... ia_ab.html

Um...if the baby is already delivered...isn't that just murder then? Don't abortions have to take place inside the womb?

[Snorri1234]

Yeah I am not fully getting it either...

[MeDeFe]

It's a tricky question. Technically birth is the moment after which there is really no way you can argue that it's not a human being, on the other hand, it's an artificially induced birth. Furthermore, I'm not sure if it's viable to inject poison into the fetus or if that would be a too great risk for the pregnant woman.
Also: the article does not state that the method the OP mentioned is the only way late-stage abortions are being carried out in VIrginia, it just said that this practice was not specifically excluded in the legislation.

And to act preemptively here: I really doubt abortions at a late stage of the pregnancy are ever "convenience abortions" where the parents-to-be decide they don't want a child after all, as some people would like to describe all abortions that take place. If an abortion takes place then I suppose there are good reasons for it, like the life or health of the woman being at danger, or the fetus having an irreparable physical defect that would cause it to be stillborn or unable to survive for more than a few hours or days after birth. In the second case an abortion can save the parents from a lot of emotional stress.

[Napoleon Ier]

Abortions essentially use a large vacuum pump to rip the child to shreds and suck it out from the womb, but in some instances, the child has to come out of the womb alive and then have the skull decompressed by sucking out the brain so that the head will fit through.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

All done of course, on a perfectly insentient, non-human "clump-of-cells"...

[suggs]

Lets please not have another fucking abortion thread.

[bedub1]

Lets please not have another fucking abortion thread.

Merge it then.

I just saw that article, and was curious how it's called an "abortion" if the child has already been delivered.....

[Snorri1234]

And to act preemptively here: I really doubt abortions at a late stage of the pregnancy are ever "convenience abortions" where the parents-to-be decide they don't want a child after all, as some people would like to describe all abortions that take place. If an abortion takes place then I suppose there are good reasons for it, like the life or health of the woman being at danger, or the fetus having an irreparable physical defect that would cause it to be stillborn or unable to survive for more than a few hours or days after birth. In the second case an abortion can save the parents from a lot of emotional stress.

Word. After less than 4 weeks the girl probably knows she's pregnant, due to her not having her period and stuff like that.

[Napoleon Ier]

Word. After less than 4 weeks the girl probably knows she's pregnant, due to her not having her period and stuff like that.

As ever, the shining beacons of Dutch medicine enlighten the lesser advanced with precise, scientific language and in-depth analysis of symptoms.

[MeDeFe]

Abortions essentially use a large vacuum pump to rip the child to shreds and suck it out from the womb, but in some instances, the child has to come out of the womb alive and then have the skull decompressed by sucking out the brain so that the head will fit through.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

All done of course, on a perfectly insentient, non-human "clump-of-cells"...

And what would you suggest if the life of the mother was at stake?

[Snorri1234]

Word. After less than 4 weeks the girl probably knows she's pregnant, due to her not having her period and stuff like that.

As ever, the shining beacons of Dutch medicine enlighten the lesser advanced with precise, scientific language and in-depth analysis of symptoms.

Oh, I bet there are tons of girls who only notice something is amiss after missing fucking 6 periods, but we're not talking about utter retards here.

Ofcourse, after realising they're pregnant it takes some time for a girl to decide. But to think that late-term abortions are mostly a convenience-abortion is just silly.

[Dancing Mustard]

Nuke more fetuses.

[Napoleon Ier]

Abortions essentially use a large vacuum pump to rip the child to shreds and suck it out from the womb, but in some instances, the child has to come out of the womb alive and then have the skull decompressed by sucking out the brain so that the head will fit through.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

All done of course, on a perfectly insentient, non-human "clump-of-cells"...

And what would you suggest if the life of the mother was at stake?

That you read Aquinas' discourses on ethical double effects.

[Snorri1234]

Abortions essentially use a large vacuum pump to rip the child to shreds and suck it out from the womb, but in some instances, the child has to come out of the womb alive and then have the skull decompressed by sucking out the brain so that the head will fit through.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

All done of course, on a perfectly insentient, non-human "clump-of-cells"...

And what would you suggest if the life of the mother was at stake?

That you read Aquinas' discourses on ethical double effects.

And also be a motherfucking catholic!

[Napoleon Ier]

Word. After less than 4 weeks the girl probably knows she's pregnant, due to her not having her period and stuff like that.

As ever, the shining beacons of Dutch medicine enlighten the lesser advanced with precise, scientific language and in-depth analysis of symptoms.

Oh, I bet there are tons of girls who only notice something is amiss after missing fucking 6 periods, but we're not talking about utter retards here.

Ofcourse, after realising they're pregnant it takes some time for a girl to decide. But to think that late-term abortions are mostly a convenience-abortion is just silly.

* 71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
* 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
* 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
* 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
* 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
* 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
* 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
* 6% Woman didn't know timing is important
* 5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
* 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
* 11% Other

Not according to the stats, it isn't.

[MeDeFe]

Word. After less than 4 weeks the girl probably knows she's pregnant, due to her not having her period and stuff like that.

As ever, the shining beacons of Dutch medicine enlighten the lesser advanced with precise, scientific language and in-depth analysis of symptoms.

Oh, I bet there are tons of girls who only notice something is amiss after missing fucking 6 periods, but we're not talking about utter retards here.

Ofcourse, after realising they're pregnant it takes some time for a girl to decide. But to think that late-term abortions are mostly a convenience-abortion is just silly.

* 71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
* 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
* 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
* 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
* 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
* 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
* 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
* 6% Woman didn't know timing is important
* 5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
* 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
* 11% Other

Not according to the stats, it isn't.

Those stats are more than 20 years old Naps. In case you didn't check the date of them on Wikipedia.

[Snorri1234]

Word. After less than 4 weeks the girl probably knows she's pregnant, due to her not having her period and stuff like that.

As ever, the shining beacons of Dutch medicine enlighten the lesser advanced with precise, scientific language and in-depth analysis of symptoms.

Also, dickweed, the Netherlands has one of the lowest rates in unwanted pregnancies in the world, so I guess we're pretty fucking good at teaching kids how to f*ck save.

[Napoleon Ier]

Word. After less than 4 weeks the girl probably knows she's pregnant, due to her not having her period and stuff like that.

As ever, the shining beacons of Dutch medicine enlighten the lesser advanced with precise, scientific language and in-depth analysis of symptoms.

Also, dickweed, the Netherlands has one of the lowest rates in unwanted pregnancies in the world, so I guess we're pretty fucking good at teaching kids how to f*ck save.

That or your girls are all f*ck ugly.

[Snorri1234]

There is a reason that using a condom and the pill is called "double dutch"...

[tzor]

Um...if the baby is already delivered...isn't that just murder then? Don't abortions have to take place inside the womb?

The simple answer is "no" although in life nothing is ever so simple. The simple fact is that some viable pre-born do survive abortions. In some cases the people involved save the life of the now "born" child. In other cases they treat the living child as they would had the child been not alive after the abortion; as garbage. (Actually doctors are required by law to treat medical waste like used needles with more care than the byproducts of an abortion.)

Before you dog pile on me please note that I am from New York, the Abortion Capitol of the United States. You should see the pile of legislation that the former Governor tried to ram down the lesiglature on the subject of abortions. The fact of the matter is that given the location where abortions can be performed (and indeed the people who are qualified to perform them) most clinics would simply lack the facilities to be able to care for a survivor of an abortion who may be pre-mature as well.

Abortion is a complex issue. But both sides want absolute answers. In many ways it's a lot like the religion/athiest debate ... a lot of yelling at each other and nothing on the actual problems of real people; born and pre-born.

[PLAYER57832]

Okay, I am going to interject some points here.

1. When looking at stats, realize that they include the most common procedure for removing a MISCARRIED (i.e. dead) fetus.

2. NOT all women lose their period the first month they get pregnant... and, since it can stop for many other reasons and pregnancy tests are not 100% reliable (even the doctor's ones ... never mind home kits), it is not just the idiot teens who don't know they are pregnant.


3. Medical science has gotten to the point where many premature infants who would normally have died now live. This IS a miracle. Yet, if you have experience with these kids, these families, you know that, while there are many who are celebrating, there are also many who wonder if the life their child is living,( not just "not being like us" but in real pain, suffering every day) really is better than the alternative. I would never tell someone else what to do if faced with choosing between letting a SEVERELY injured child live or letting nature (some might say "God") take its course. I would never say "no", but I would never say "yes", either. It is just too personal a choice.

4. For all this talk of "loving homes" and "wanted children" there are, right now, millions of kids languishing in foster care, sometimes just warehoused in juvenile detention centers because there is no other place for them.

Sometimes those are the lucky ones....

There ARE worse things than death ...

[bedub1]

I'm both for, and against abortion. But IMO, if you are going to have one, do it before 9 months and on the day of the birth etc....do it in the first 6 months.....

[clapper011]

Okay, I am going to interject 2 points here.

1. When looking at stats, realize that they include the most common procedure for removing a MISCARRIED (i.e. dead) fetus.

2. NOT all women lose their period the first month they get pregnant... and, since one stop it for other reasons and pregnancy tests are not 100% reliable (even the doctor's ones ... never mind home kits), it is not just the idiot teens who don't know they are pregnant.

some women actually can menstruate for most, if not all their pregnancy!

[bedub1]

some women actually can menstruate for most, if not all their pregnancy!

Is that considered a special ability...or is it a drag and pain in the ass?

[clapper011]

well, I wouldn't know myself, never had it for the whole pregnancy.

[AndrewLC]

It would suck to have your genitals bleed every month...