Does America need a revolution?

[subdork]

Hehe, there does tend to be some wacko ideas coming out of the libertarian party... like privatizing the police... But I trust that since libertarians wouldn't have complete power that their only effect would be to decrease government spending. yay... but this is only my own political viewpoint.... feel free to completely ignore it.

Well, yeah. Some are a bit extreme, but private security firms in Vegas do a pretty good job protecting casinos.... Food for thought maybe...

I don't doubt that they would catch the bad guys a whole lot better, but entrusting our liberties to a business is too far to me.

And while most good politicians seem to get sifted out as you travel from the local level to the national level, I still believe that this is primarily due to people not voting in the primaries.

Pun not intended I hope...

But yeah, if more people voted in the primaries, candidates might stick it out longer... Maybe...

Oh, it wasn't intended at first... but after I saw it, I had to italicize to bring it some extra attention.

But my original point was that you would find a lot more middle of road candidates on the ballot if more middle of the road people voted in the primaries. With the way things are today, you've got Dems and Reps at opposite extremes and so there's little hope of common sense compromise. And yes, I know, libertarians are pretty far from the middle of the road. I can't help it if my politics are in their corner of the political square.

[vtmarik]

Libertarians are as far left as you can go before you get to Anarchist, so yeah.

The problem with moderates is that they aren't as wacky and attractive as the extreme candidates so no one pays attention to them.

It's like if "When Animals Mangle Innocent Babies VI" was playing in the same time slot as "Easygoing Guy and his Wife and their wacky misadventures."

The Mangling gets more attention. The old news adage "If it bleeds, it leads"

[subdork]

Libertarians are as far left as you can go before you get to Anarchist, so yeah.

The problem with moderates is that they aren't as wacky and attractive as the extreme candidates so no one pays attention to them.

It's like if "When Animals Mangle Innocent Babies VI" was playing in the same time slot as "Easygoing Guy and his Wife and their wacky misadventures."

The Mangling gets more attention. The old news adage "If it bleeds, it leads"

I guess my cases-in-point would be
1) John McCain... who would have cleaned up at the polls if he had made it past the republican primaries... he was bit more middle of the road and a lot more flexible than Bush. 2 attributes that conservative nuts abhor.

2) Joe Lieberman... who probably will win his election even though he lost his primary because he has such a broad appeal across the middle, the near right and the near left. He's also one to actually work with both parties... which liberal nuts abhor.

Left and Right are no longer valid once we get past a strictly dem-rep comparison. You definately can't call libs bleeding hearts or bible-thumpers

[OnlyAmbrose]

I might vote Libertarian, if their candidates were'nt all wackos.

They all remind me of L. Ron Hubbard.

And voting for Sharpton would have been like voting for Marion Berry.
Get Real!

This brings up another issue... when you vote for a party of similar ideology to either of the major parties, you pretty much pull a "Nader effect"... meaning you essentially cause your end of the political spectrum (left or right, in Nader's case, left) to lose, because your end of the spectrum's votes would be divided between several parties. So while in that case the opposite end may not have a majority, they may be so much better unified in their choice of candidates that they win anyways.

Again, it boils down to the "lesser of two evils" deal.

[subdork]

I might vote Libertarian, if their candidates were'nt all wackos.

They all remind me of L. Ron Hubbard.

And voting for Sharpton would have been like voting for Marion Berry.
Get Real!

This brings up another issue... when you vote for a party of similar ideology to either of the major parties, you pretty much pull a "Nader effect"... meaning you essentially cause your end of the political spectrum (left or right, in Nader's case, left) to lose, because your end of the spectrum's votes would be divided between several parties. So while in that case the opposite end may not have a majority, they may be so much better unified in their choice of candidates that they win anyways.

Again, it boils down to the "lesser of two evils" deal.

Primaries... if people really wanted nader to be president, then he would win the democratic primary. But yes, after it's been narrowed down to whoever wins the democratic nom and whoever wins the republican nom, then indeed, if you still don't like what you see, then it is the lesser of two evils. Hopefully at least 25% of the population really wanted one of those 2 "evils" instead of just 4%

[terrafirma]

so america has kept europe a "freen" continent has it? so tell me this, what would have happened without the u.k and yes, even the USSR in world war II (which is very obviously what you're talkin about) i'll tell you, nazis take over europe before america comes along, develop better weapons and BOOM! hitlers statue is in front of the white house! (btw i'm not supporting communists i'm just saying that particular country had an effect in wwII) you americans think all our countries wouldn't last a second without you don't you? we're only posting because we'd like to have an opinion!!!

first of all i am not only talking about ww2 i am also talking about ww1 because without the threat of more and morea merican troops the kaiser's statue would be in front of every capitol on the continent. 2nd germany could never have had a successful invasion of america for one simple reason(which also is the reason we have won every war since 1812) america has so much industrial power behind it that we could out produce every country in the world in everything that matters. 3rd with out the US and Lend lease both britain and the USSR would be spreches duetsch so again please if you are a European dont post here because in american politics your opinion doesnt matter. oh and 4th without the US the rest of europe would be communist because of the USSR so i can say the word "freen" when ever i want cause my country is a helluva lot better then yours because if you ask anyone in the world what they think of america they will say they hate us but if you can get them a greencard they will jump at the chance to leave whatever shithole they caome from and wrap the star spangled banner around themselves while they sleep. 5th can you name one country in the world that hasnt been fucked up cause of europe. lets see if britain had left the middle east along tribal lines there wouldnt be any wars there. same thing with the french and every other major colonizer because what ever we do we can never be as bad as europeans have been to anyone else on the planet so go f*ck yourselves europe leave world politics to the big boys in the US of A

[qeee1]

so america has kept europe a "freen" continent has it? so tell me this, what would have happened without the u.k and yes, even the USSR in world war II (which is very obviously what you're talkin about) i'll tell you, nazis take over europe before america comes along, develop better weapons and BOOM! hitlers statue is in front of the white house! (btw i'm not supporting communists i'm just saying that particular country had an effect in wwII) you americans think all our countries wouldn't last a second without you don't you? we're only posting because we'd like to have an opinion!!!

first of all i am not only talking about ww2 i am also talking about ww1 because without the threat of more and morea merican troops the kaiser's statue would be in front of every capitol on the continent. 2nd germany could never have had a successful invasion of america for one simple reason(which also is the reason we have won every war since 1812) america has so much industrial power behind it that we could out produce every country in the world in everything that matters. 3rd with out the US and Lend lease both britain and the USSR would be spreches duetsch so again please if you are a European dont post here because in american politics your opinion doesnt matter. oh and 4th without the US the rest of europe would be communist because of the USSR so i can say the word "freen" when ever i want cause my country is a helluva lot better then yours because if you ask anyone in the world what they think of america they will say they hate us but if you can get them a greencard they will jump at the chance to leave whatever shithole they caome from and wrap the star spangled banner around themselves while they sleep. 5th can you name one country in the world that hasnt been fucked up cause of europe. lets see if britain had left the middle east along tribal lines there wouldnt be any wars there. same thing with the french and every other major colonizer because what ever we do we can never be as bad as europeans have been to anyone else on the planet so go f*ck yourselves europe leave world politics to the big boys in the US of A

I was going to make a constuctive post, but then I saw this and realised constuctive posting isn't what this thread is about anymore.

[terrafirma]

Amen

[subdork]

I was going to make a constuctive post, but then I saw this and realised constuctive posting isn't what this thread is about anymore.

constructive? Its along the lines of my tangent, but read this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,223998,00.html

[qeee1]

I meant that terrafirma's post was so wrong and annoying, I couldn't be bothered responding.

[terrafirma]

I meant that terrafirma's post was so wrong and annoying, I couldn't be bothered responding.

maybe its so annoying because oyu arent ameircan and you know that what goes on in europe doesnt really matter anymore

[qeee1]

I meant that terrafirma's post was so wrong and annoying, I couldn't be bothered responding.

maybe its so annoying because oyu arent ameircan and you know that what goes on in europe doesnt really matter anymore

yeah, you're right, I'm wrong, how could I have been so misguided? Being in Europe obviously renders my opinions less valid, regardless of their truth. No one in Europe could ever have anything insightful or objective to say because we are all so blinded by envy. Let's just forget about arguing logically and in future judge all arguments based on a persons nationality.

[terrafirma]

hey i didnt mean it like that i meant that because europeans are exactly that "europeans" means that they dont understand american politics in way that they should be able to decide if america needs a revolution

[mr. incrediball]

so america has kept europe a "freen" continent has it? so tell me this, what would have happened without the u.k and yes, even the USSR in world war II (which is very obviously what you're talkin about) i'll tell you, nazis take over europe before america comes along, develop better weapons and BOOM! hitlers statue is in front of the white house! (btw i'm not supporting communists i'm just saying that particular country had an effect in wwII) you americans think all our countries wouldn't last a second without you don't you? we're only posting because we'd like to have an opinion!!!

first of all i am not only talking about ww2 i am also talking about ww1 because without the threat of more and morea merican troops the kaiser's statue would be in front of every capitol on the continent. 2nd germany could never have had a successful invasion of america for one simple reason(which also is the reason we have won every war since 1812) america has so much industrial power behind it that we could out produce every country in the world in everything that matters. 3rd with out the US and Lend lease both britain and the USSR would be spreches duetsch so again please if you are a European dont post here because in american politics your opinion doesnt matter. oh and 4th without the US the rest of europe would be communist because of the USSR so i can say the word "freen" when ever i want cause my country is a helluva lot better then yours because if you ask anyone in the world what they think of america they will say they hate us but if you can get them a greencard they will jump at the chance to leave whatever shithole they caome from and wrap the star spangled banner around themselves while they sleep. 5th can you name one country in the world that hasnt been fucked up cause of europe. lets see if britain had left the middle east along tribal lines there wouldnt be any wars there. same thing with the french and every other major colonizer because what ever we do we can never be as bad as europeans have been to anyone else on the planet so go f*ck yourselves europe leave world politics to the big boys in the US of A

WHAT!?

1:america has lost a war since 1812: the vietnam war

2:if germany had taken over europe they would have MASSES of industrial backing! easily enough to rival the USA!

3:oh so our opinion doesn't matter cause we're not american? you arrogant little...

4: no i wouldn't give up my exellent country for america if you give me a "greencard" whatever the hell that is...

5:The reason the world isn't communist is cause no-one wanted a third world war, that's the only reason the world didn't erupt into nuclear war

6: without us "evil european colonizers" the USA WOULDN'T EXIST!!!! neither would canada or australia for that matter...

it's people like you that ruin the usa...

[mr. incrediball]

I meant that terrafirma's post was so wrong and annoying, I couldn't be bothered responding.

maybe its so annoying because oyu arent ameircan and you know that what goes on in europe doesnt really matter anymore

yeah, you're right, I'm wrong, how could I have been so misguided? Being in Europe obviously renders my opinions less valid, regardless of their truth. No one in Europe could ever have anything insightful or objective to say because we are all so blinded by envy. Let's just forget about arguing logically and in future judge all arguments based on a persons nationality.

amen queeeee... amen....

[terrafirma]

Libertarians are as far left as you can go before you get to Anarchist, so yeah.

The problem with moderates is that they aren't as wacky and attractive as the extreme candidates so no one pays attention to them.

It's like if "When Animals Mangle Innocent Babies VI" was playing in the same time slot as "Easygoing Guy and his Wife and their wacky misadventures."

The Mangling gets more attention. The old news adage "If it bleeds, it leads"

i am a libretarian but i am not a leftist if you knew what a libretarian was you would never say something like that

[Econ2000]

people i think we all need to remember this the media tells u wat the government thinks

[qeee1]

people i think we all need to remember this the media tells u wat the government thinks

Not necessarily the government, I'd say they're more influenced by big business.

[P Gizzle]

people i think we all need to remember this the media tells u wat the government thinks

Not necessarily the government, I'd say they're more influenced by big business.

and what they want you to think. the media controls ALL of american political life (i cant talk about anywhere else, never been). so, if it's a democratic media, Bush is hated nationwide. if it's a Republican, bush is idolized. like, ever notice anything u hear on the news about iraq is bad? i mean, you hear about 12 soldiers dying, but what about the insurgents? are they invinceable?

[terrafirma]

good point

[OnlyAmbrose]

A few things to clear up...

Firstly, liberatrians are NOT to the far left. Leftists these days mean socialists (or more extreme), and libertarians are the exact opposite.

Secondly...

people i think we all need to remember this the media tells u wat the government thinks

Not necessarily the government, I'd say they're more influenced by big business.

I'd tend to disagree, at least here in America the media seems quite liberal, and liberals are generally NOT in the pockets of big businesses. An interesting anomaly though, considering that news corporations are OWNED by big businesses... huh. Anyways, the impression I get from most newspapers and TV news channels is an EXTREME leftist bias (with a few notable exceptions).

In any event, it seems the thread has descended into a mudslinging contest, and I could watch the news if I wanted to see completely subjective and often baseless opinions being thrown by people on both sides. So I'll back out of this 'un for awhile, ta ta!

[qeee1]

I'd tend to disagree, at least here in America the media seems quite liberal, and liberals are generally NOT in the pockets of big businesses. An interesting anomaly though, considering that news corporations are OWNED by big businesses... huh. Anyways, the impression I get from most newspapers and TV news channels is an EXTREME leftist bias (with a few notable exceptions).

In any event, it seems the thread has descended into a mudslinging contest, and I could watch the news if I wanted to see completely subjective and often baseless opinions being thrown by people on both sides. So I'll back out of this 'un for awhile, ta ta!

hmmm... I said I'd do the same a few posts back, but then forgot. Oh well I guess I'll end it here, just posting to say that to me, what I've seen of the American media, (which admittedly is not much) seems biased towards the right, and even if it could be considered leftist biased, it could never be considered an EXTREME bias. They're most definately biased against the extreme left.

[P Gizzle]

i believe the media is moderate liberal