Evolution vs Creation-Comparing each View

[MeDeFe]

It seems going back and reading older posts is too much to ask of bradley, so for his sake I'll repost what I wrote a few days ago.

I made that point in a very different context. If I remember correctly it was when daddy1gringo and I were arguing absolute truth and occasionally other people would dare speak up as well. Anyway, someone tried to tell me that mathematics are absolute and independent of anything and everything, I just pointed out that even in mathematics there is nothing that can be demonstrated to be true without referencing to something else.

DangerBoy has a link to a proof in his sig, but that one relies on a large number of other definitions, which rather nicely proves my point from the other thread. Namely that things can be understood or even exist only in relation to other things.

Now, bradley, is that really so moronic as you claim, or have you simply not understood it? Noone has disputed that 1 + 1 = 2, only that the correctness, or truth, of the equation is something absolute, meaning "independent of all external factors". Now, unless you have more to offer than quips about kindergarten and attempts at insulting my intelligence that only show you don't know what you're talking about in the first place, shut up. If, on the other hand, you do have more to offer, feel free to post a reply.

[Carebian Knight]

Looks like you really don't have much there dangerboy, do you? Of course you can poke holes in evolution because there's always going to be holes in any theory but it doesn't prove that creationism is correct. If you want to believe the Bible that's cool but just don't try to shove it on everyone else. Also, stop trying to make us all look like MeDeFe. We could always come back and say all Christians are like Jimmy Swaggart but I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate that now, would you! A vast majority of people who are atheist do not demand proof that 1 + 1 = 2, we accept that as common sense. We're not all morons. Of course there are weirdos in every group of people.

If you've got some form of proof then by all means share it. Do you believe there's a young earth or not?

But if you had been taught that 1 + 1 = 3 all your life, you would believe it. Humans believe what they hear instead of what they themselves have come to figure out. Is there physical proof that God exists? In my opinion yes, in yours, probably not. Most likely this is because you have been taught that God doesn't exist, have you actually read the Bible and other religious works? I won't lie, I haven't read Darwin's book, but I know enough about it from school to see there are numerous flaws, humans make mistakes, the major ones being not realizing when someone else has made one.

If your friend came up and told you that your father was a cold blooded killer. Would you believe him? Probably not, but do you actually have proof that he isn't? No, from what you know of your father, you make the conclusion that he is not a killer. But if you believe your friend, then you might tell someone else, who will tell someone else and so on and so forth until word reaches the police, by that time the jury might have believed the rumor and your father might receive the death penalty. Now somone has died, because you didn't realize his mistake.

I believe the same is true of evolution, someone many years ago could've made a mistake somewhere and now everyone believes he didn't and for that reason the rumor has spread and everyone believes it is true.

[Snorri1234]

Is there physical proof that God exists? In my opinion yes, in yours, probably not.

I like, please post this proof of God.

Most likely this is because you have been taught that God doesn't exist, have you actually read the Bible and other religious works?

I have. I've been taught about the bible from an early age. Though you probably have a point in that my parents weren't really that religious or anything.

I won't lie, I haven't read Darwin's book, but I know enough about it from school to see there are numerous flaws,

Oh man, I know there are lots of flaws in Darwin's book. The awesome thing is that we don't just take what Darwin said as the truth. He was wrong on a number of things, often due to lack of information. (Noone knew about DNA and stuff like that.)

I believe the same is true of evolution, someone many years ago could've made a mistake somewhere and now everyone believes he didn't and for that reason the rumor has spread and everyone believes it is true.

This would be true if it weren't science. The great thing about science is that people actually test something to see whether or not it's true. We don't just believe what someone else said because he said it, we have it tested.

[silvanricky]

The whole problem with this 1 + 1 = 2 thing is that people who say that it's not absolute minus external sources are still stating that as an absolute. It's ridiculous to ask for proof for something that is so plain to even youngsters.

[Snorri1234]

The whole problem with this 1 + 1 = 2 thing is that people who say that it's not absolute minus external sources are still stating that as an absolute. It's ridiculous to ask for proof for something that is so plain to even youngsters.

No doubt it's an absolute. But without the external sources, you have no application to the real world. The fun thing about math is that the real world isn't neccesarily the same. Math is internally consistent, but that's because it's an abstract concept outside of the real world. (It seems to fit into the real world perfectly at the moment, but that's no proof it will absolutely do.)

[silvanricky]

The whole problem with this 1 + 1 = 2 thing is that people who say that it's not absolute minus external sources are still stating that as an absolute. It's ridiculous to ask for proof for something that is so plain to even youngsters.

No doubt it's an absolute. But without the external sources, you have no application to the real world. The fun thing about math is that the real world isn't neccesarily the same. Math is internally consistent, but that's because it's an abstract concept outside of the real world. (It seems to fit into the real world perfectly at the moment, but that's no proof it will absolutely do.)

Alright so you say that it's an absolute and then digress into saying it's not an absolute!!! The problem with people who try and pretend like they're aren't absolutes is that it's a self-defeating argument. It should be plain to anyone with an average intelligence. I'm not trying to make the case that evolution is false or that creationism is false. I don't know. But to say that they're aren't absolutes is just silly. Anyone who tries to argue against that is just being stubborn - absolutely

[bradleybadly]

Now, bradley, is that really so moronic as you claim, or have you simply not understood it?

It's moronic. Of course you probably look at yourself and think it's a genius piece of work.

Noone has disputed that 1 + 1 = 2, only that the correctness, or truth, of the equation is something absolute, meaning "independent of all external factors". Now, unless you have more to offer than quips about kindergarten and attempts at insulting my intelligence that only show you don't know what you're talking about in the first place, shut up. If, on the other hand, you do have more to offer, feel free to post a reply.

I can't stop you from posting stupid shit and trying to make it sound like your the next Stephen Fucking Hawkings. Just don't try and tell me to shut up. You're the one posting "show me the proof". Perhaps you'll ask for proof that there's a planet called Earth next. Good luck with that one.




............................still waiting, DangerBoy! Don't think I've forgotten you.

[muy_thaiguy]

DangerBoy

Here's his profile. Just scroll down and you'll see it.

[Snorri1234]

I can't stop you from posting stupid shit and trying to make it sound like your the next Stephen Fucking Hawkings. Just don't try and tell me to shut up. You're the one posting "show me the proof". Perhaps you'll ask for proof that there's a planet called Earth next. Good luck with that one.

Seeing as how you can't even prove that you yourself exist, I'd like to see you try proving earth exists.

[Snorri1234]

Alright so you say that it's an absolute and then digress into saying it's not an absolute!!!

Yes, because it is only an absolute in math.

The problem with people who try and pretend like they're aren't absolutes is that it's a self-defeating argument. It should be plain to anyone with an average intelligence. I'm not trying to make the case that evolution is false or that creationism is false. I don't know. But to say that they're aren't absolutes is just silly. Anyone who tries to argue against that is just being stubborn - absolutely

This is not about evolution! We're not discussing science here, we're discussing philosophy. Absolute truth and all that.

[Dancing Mustard]

Ha ha! First post on page 100! Take that bitches.

PS. I just proved evolution because what I did is evidence that I have clearly been born to be faster than everyone else on internet forums, this gives me an advantage over you at the vital skill of 'being really annoying', and allows me to put my wing-wang into a greater number of femmes than yourselves.

In other words. I win this thread. Bow down to a true pimp.

[MeDeFe]

Alright so you say that it's an absolute and then digress into saying it's not an absolute!!!

Yes, because it is only an absolute in math.

Not quite, the equation 1+1=2 is not an absolute even in mathematics, as DangerBoy's proof rather nicely shows. You need a definition of N as a series of numbers starting at 1 with an interval of 1, you need to define 2 as being the number that follows after 1 in N, while it nicely demostrates that 1+1 equals 2, it does not at all show that this mathematical equation is a case of something absolutely true, since the truth of the equation relies on a number of definitions that do not follow from the equation itself.

The complete system of everything mathematical could arguably be considered an absolute entity (in the philosophical meaning of the word), however, because we rely on symbols that are themselves not immediately derived from the system in order to make sense of it we can never treat it as such.


And to you people out there who think you're being witty, give me a break with the linguistic puns already. Statements such as "There exists such a thing as X" or "There is no such thing as Y" are not absolute whatever you are smoking. Get up to date on the terminology before you make yourself look like fools, at least then you will look like competent fools.

[Neoteny]

DangerBoy

Here's his profile. Just scroll down and you'll see it.

I had noticed that before. He's so clever.

[Carebian Knight]

Ha ha! First post on page 100! Take that bitches.

PS. I just proved evolution because what I did is evidence that I have clearly been born to be faster than everyone else on internet forums, this gives me an advantage over you at the vital skill of 'being really annoying', and allows me to put my wing-wang into a greater number of femmes than yourselves.

In other words. I win this thread. Bow down to a true pimp.

This post proves to me that you never have and never wil "put your wing-wang into femmes."

[DangerBoy]

Yep I put that in my sig to show how silly people become when they don't believe in God. They'll fall for anything. It will be a constant reminder to anyone who wants to travel down the path of atheism.

[MeDeFe]

Yep I put that in my sig to show how silly people become when they don't believe in God. They'll fall for anything. It will be a constant reminder to anyone who wants to travel down the path of atheism.

I think it shows that you can quote anything out of context so that the original point is utterly lost. But then again, you're from the US, aren't you? I guess you learn that early on over there, just look at your sorry excuses for political campaigns, it's enough to pity you.

[unriggable]

Does anybody here believe in a young earth? If so, I've got some evidence you should see to.

[bradleybadly]

And to you people out there who think you're being witty, give me a break with the linguistic puns already. Statements such as "There exists such a thing as X" or "There is no such thing as Y" are not absolute whatever you are smoking. Get up to date on the terminology before you make yourself look like fools, at least then you will look like competent fools.

I've heard this one used before. 'It's not that I said something stupid, it's just that everyone else misunderstands the brilliance of my position'.

Still waiting, dangerboy.

[unriggable]

Yep I put that in my sig to show how silly people become when they don't believe in God. They'll fall for anything. It will be a constant reminder to anyone who wants to travel down the path of atheism.

Wait...you're saying that falling back on a sky daddy isn't silly in the least?

[muy_thaiguy]

And to you people out there who think you're being witty, give me a break with the linguistic puns already. Statements such as "There exists such a thing as X" or "There is no such thing as Y" are not absolute whatever you are smoking. Get up to date on the terminology before you make yourself look like fools, at least then you will look like competent fools.

I've heard this one used before. 'It's not that I said something stupid, it's just that everyone else misunderstands the brilliance of my position'.

Still waiting, dangerboy.

Look up a few posts. Not that hard.

[bradleybadly]

Look up a few posts. Not that hard.

What the hell are you talking about? Dangerboy hasn't given me anything that says that the earth is young

[Frigidus]

Yep I put that in my sig to show how silly people become when they don't believe in God. They'll fall for anything. It will be a constant reminder to anyone who wants to travel down the path of atheism.

That's like saying that anyone who likes the Jacksonville Jaguars likes to eat strawberries. Just because we've interpreted the universe differently than you doesn't mean that we're "silly".

[silvanricky]

you're from the US, aren't you? I guess you learn that early on over there, just look at your sorry excuses for political campaigns, it's enough to pity you.

I pity German math students

[Neoteny]

Yep I put that in my sig to show how silly people become when they don't believe in God. They'll fall for anything. It will be a constant reminder to anyone who wants to travel down the path of atheism.

That's like saying that anyone who likes the Jacksonville Jaguars likes to eat strawberries. Just because we've interpreted the universe differently than you doesn't mean that we're "silly".

Nobody actually likes the Jags...

Anyhow, how about we actually debate something rather than going back and forth over this crap. Is there absolute truth?

[bradleybadly]

Seeing as how you can't even prove that you yourself exist, I'd like to see you try proving earth exists.

Since Dangerboy won't answer me I guess we can discuss this. I could prove to you that I exist. I could come and meet you in person and you could physically observe me with your sight, touch, and hear me talk. You could empirically do this. The process could be repeated numerous times with the same result, proving that I exist.

Like I hinted at previously, it's ridiculous to try and argue for something simple like the earth's existence or 1 + 1 = 2 because it's common sense. You and I live in the earth everyday and can empirically know it. It's so simple I don't know why people need to try and pretend to be great philosophers about stuff like this. It takes time away from enjoying life in general, and keeps people from trying to figure out harder stuff.

I can't empirically test God's existence so I'm not a theist. If I could, then of course I'd have to change. The proof would be right there in front of me.