Jews are not a race, but members of a faith.

[the_lion]

No more needs to be said... and that cunt wicked can't shut us down here.

[Anarkistsdream]

No more needs to be said... and that cunt wicked can't shut us down here.

Except that you are still wrong.

And you are the only one on your side of the debate.

Oh, I'm sorry, you have Wicked on your side too.

[wicked]

Actually I have no side, but it does appear to be an interesting discussion. As I stated in the first thread, I was just quoting a website on Judaism, figured if anyone knew, they would! I think it's obvious even though they may not technically be a race by definition (according to some), it's come to mean that in common definition today regardless.

Thanks lion for starting it here... just keep the insults and name-calling out of here. I won't shut this thread down, but you will get warned for that.

[reminisco]

yeah, i've gotta back up AD here.

it is a distinct ethnicity with a rich cultural history that i admire and would defend if necessary.

[Dancing Mustard]

I was always of the understanding that Judaism was a faith to which any ethnic group could be adherents, but that 'Jewish' was the correct term for an ethnic group originating from from the middle east (who just so happened to be the founders and main adherents to, Judaism).

Are you sure that you people aren't arguing at cross purposes here? Is the real point not that 'Jewish' can mean an ethnic Jew (who are almost unarguably a defined racial group) or a religious Jew (the much persecuted followers of a religious movement)?

Or is the problem that The_Lion is just being obtuse?

[the_lion]

See below... Jews aren't listed.


Outline of Human Racial Classification:

SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA GROUP
I. Capoid or Khoisanid Subspecies of southern Africa

A. Khoid (Hottentot) race
B. Sanid (Bushmen) race

II. Congoid Subspecies of sub-Saharan Africa

A. Central Congoid race (Geographic center and origin in the Congo river basin)

1. Palaecongoid subrace (the Congo river basin: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Congo, Angola)
2. Sudanid subrace (western Africa: Niger, Mali, Senegal, Guinea)
3. Nilotid subrace (southern Sudan; the ancient Nubians were of this subrace)
4. Kafrid or Bantid subrace (east and south Africa: Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, Natal)

B. Bambutid race (African Pygmies)
C. Aethiopid race (Ethiopia, Somalia; hybridized with Caucasoids)


"OUT-OF-AFRICA" GROUP
I. Caucasoid or Europid Subspecies

A. Mediterranid race

1. West Mediterranean or Iberid subrace (Spain, Portugal, Corsica, Sardinia, and coastal areas of Morocco and Tunisia; the Atlanto-Mediterranean peoples who expanded over much of the Atlantic coastal regions of Europe during the Mesolithic period were a branch of this subrace)
2. East Mediterranean or Pontid subrace (Black Sea coast of Ukraine, Romania and Bulgaria; Aegean coasts of Greece and Turkey)
3. Dinaricized Mediterraneans (Residual mixed types resulting from the blending of Mediterranids with Dinarics, Alpines or Armenids; not a unified type, has much regional variation; predominant element [over 60%] in Sicily and southern Italy, principal element in Turkey [35%], important element in western Syria, Lebanon and central Italy, common in northern Italy. The ancient Cappadocian Mediterranean subrace of Anatolia was dinaricized during the Bronze Age [second millennium B.C.] and is a major contributor to this type in modern Turkey.)
4. South Mediterranean or Saharid subrace (predominant in Algeria and Libya, important in Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt)
5. Orientalid or Arabid subrace (predominant in Arabia, major element from Egypt to Syria, primary in northern Sudan, important in Iraq, predominant element among the Oriental Jews)

B. Dinaric race (predominant in western Balkans [Dinaric Mountains] and northern Italy, important in the Czech Republic, eastern and southern Switzerland, western Austria and eastern Ukraine. Its distribution in Europe, and that of its derived Dinaricized Mediterranean type, may be associated with the expansion of the Neolithic Anatolian farmers beginning circa 6,500 B.C.)
C. Alpine race (predominant element in Luxembourg, primary in Bavaria and Bohemia, important in France, Hungary, eastern and southern Switzerland)
D. Ladogan race (named after Lake Ladoga; indigenous to Russia; includes Lappish subrace of arctic Europe)
E. Nordish or Northern European race (various subraces in the British Isles, Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Belgium; predominant element in Germany, Switzerland, Poland, Finland and the Baltic States; majority in Austria and Russia; minority in France, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary; outlined in detail in The Nordish Race)
F. Armenid race (predominant element in Armenia, common in Syria, Lebanon and northern Iraq, primary element among the Ashkenazic Jews)
G. Turanid race (partially hybridized with Mongoloids; predominant element in Kazakhstan.; common in Hungary and Turkey)
H. Irano-Afghan race (predominant in Iran and Afghanistan, primary element in Iraq, common [25%] in Turkey)
I. Indic or Nordindid race (Pakistan and northern India)
J. Dravidic race (India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka [Ceylon]; ancient stabilized Indic-Veddoid [Australoid] blend)

II. Australoid Subspecies

A. Veddoid race (remnant Australoid population in central and southern India)
B. Negritos (remnants in Malaysia and the Philippines)
C. Melanesian race (New Guinea, Papua, Solomon Islands)
D. Australian-Tasmanian race (Australian Aborigines)

III. Mongoloid Subspecies

A. Northeast Asian or Northern Mogoloid race (various subraces in China, Manchuria, Korea and Japan)
B. Southeast Asian or Southern Mongoloid race (various subraces in southwest China, Indochina, Thailand, Myanmar [Burma], Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines, the last four partly hybridized with Australoids)
C. Micronesian-Polynesian race (predominantly Southern Mongoloid partly hybridized with Australoids)
D. Ainuid race (remnants of aboriginal population in northern Japan)
E. Tungid race (Mongolia and Siberia, Eskimos)
F. Amerindian race (American Indians; various subraces)

[Dancing Mustard]

Source? Credibility? Author?

What is it about this wall of text that makes it any more valid than any list of 'races' I could write down on my bathroom wall? Come on Lion, half-baked copy+pasting is even less useful to you there than it is in FW.

[the_lion]

Source? Credibility? Author?

What is it about this wall of text that makes it any more valid than any list of 'races' I could write down on my bathroom wall? Come on Lion, half-baked copy+pasting is even less useful to you there than it is in FW.

Sorry...
http://www.racialcompact.com/racesofhumanity.html

[Nickbaldwin]

Either way it doesn't matter to me, Jews or not they're still people.

[greenoaks]

See below... Jews aren't listed.

"OUT-OF-AFRICA" GROUP
I. Caucasoid or Europid Subspecies

A. Mediterranid race

1. West Mediterranean or Iberid subrace
2. East Mediterranean or Pontid subrace
3. Dinaricized Mediterraneans
4. South Mediterranean or Saharid subrace
5. Orientalid or Arabid subrace (predominant in Arabia, major element from Egypt to Syria, primary in northern Sudan, important in Iraq, predominant element among the Oriental Jews)

B. Dinaric race
C. Alpine race
D. Ladogan race
E. Nordish or Northern European race
F. Armenid race (predominant element in Armenia, common in Syria, Lebanon and northern Iraq, primary element among the Ashkenazic Jews)
G. Turanid race
H. Irano-Afghan race
I. Indic or Nordindid race
J. Dravidic race

II. Australoid Subspecies

III. Mongoloid Subspecies

[muy_thaiguy]

They are not listed in a race unto themselves. That is where the problem is. They are considered part of other groups in the area, but not their own exclusive group.

[neryan]

[imghttp://0z.se/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/screen-clip-hitler-w-paraclete2.jpg][/img]



what did hitler refer them as faith or race anyone know

[btownmeggy]

You silly people. Race doesn't exist.

It was invented by conquistadores in the early modern era. It was "rationalized" by quacks in the 19th century.

[btownmeggy]

[imghttp://0z.se/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/screen-clip-hitler-w-paraclete2.jpg][/img]



what did hitler refer them as faith or race anyone know

RACE.

[got tonkaed]

as far as hitler...i think he used both terms in derogatory senses, as in certain situations either term would have fit the type of point he wanted to make.

Race made sense in the context of providing an opposition to the aryan race mentality he was attempting to craft alongside others in the party.

Faith made sense in the context of providing that there was something inherently Jewish and not Christian and could not be transformed, as was part of the conception of faith within Germany around the time of the eliminationist mind set in the 1930s-40s

[Neoteny]

race
–noun

3. Anthropology.
a. any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.

I would argue both.

[got tonkaed]

I think the question is are these things anything other than simply social constructs. Id have to come down on the side that really race is nothing more than an idea that caught on a ton in the timeperiod and fashion btownmeggy suggests and doesnt really have much in the way of representational reality.

[apey]

Jews are BOTH you can have have that ya know


and Wicked Y the hell did you let kitty outta his cage in FW

[the_lion]

Jews are BOTH you can have have that ya know


and Wicked Y the hell did you let kitty outta his cage in FW

because I make too much noise when locked up.

[Snorri1234]

May I ask why this is important to anyone?

[tzor]

Are Jews a race? I would have more thought it a marathon myself. Where's the start line? Where's the finish line? It took them how many years to go over that small course in the dessert? Mind you Ben Hur wasn't so bad as a racer.

[Nickbaldwin]

Are Jews a race? I would have more thought it a marathon myself. Where's the start line? Where's the finish line? It took them how many years to go over that small course in the dessert? Mind you Ben Hur wasn't so bad as a racer.

[wicked]

best answer yet = tzor

[btownmeggy]

Source? Credibility? Author?

What is it about this wall of text that makes it any more valid than any list of 'races' I could write down on my bathroom wall? Come on Lion, half-baked copy+pasting is even less useful to you there than it is in FW.

Sorry...
http://www.racialcompact.com/racesofhumanity.html

Surprise surprise! Came from a white supremacy website! Subspecies...

[the_lion]

"Essays on a new concept of racial relations that promotes the continued existence, independence and legitimate rights and interests of all races, providing a preservationist alternative to the racially destructive consequences of multiracialism"

That doesn't sound white supremest to me. Also, they referred to all species as "sub".