Bible Prophecy

[Gregrios]

I agree with you on those interpetations for the most part. However I noticed there was a couple points you were simply speculating on. But for the most part I think you've hit it right on the nail.

[Backglass]

Are you guys still arguing about superheros & supervillians?

Time to grow up kiddies...Your magical superbeings don't exist!

[MR. Nate]

That's OK Backglass, neither do you.

[Backglass]

That's OK Backglass, neither do you.

LOL...whatever makes you feel better about your delusions Nate.

[Napoleon Ier]

Are you guys still arguing about superheros & supervillians?

Time to grow up kiddies...Your magical superbeings don't exist!

This is a rather sickening example of intellectual arrogance. I mean, again, when people like Kant and Descartes, hell, the big man himself A. Flew, believe/d in God, how can you sit there with a pathetic smirk on your face thinking that all your intellectual opponents must be wrong.

I am able accept atheism is backed up with a wealth of evidence and philosophical rationale, and I don't seek to patronize atheists, I just find the logic for God's existence more convincing. Your profoundly silly, disanalogous remarks about fairy tales and sky-daddies, quite frankly, end up with you looking like an arse.

So it is to you sir that I say: time to grow up, kiddie...

[Gregrios]

Are you guys still arguing about superheros & supervillians?

Time to grow up kiddies...Your magical superbeings don't exist!

This is a rather sickening example of intellectual arrogance. I mean, again, when people like Kant and Descartes, hell, the big man himself A. Flew, believe/d in God, how can you sit there with a pathetic smirk on your face thinking that all your intellectual opponents must be wrong.

I am able accept atheism is backed up with a wealth of evidence and philosophical rationale, and I don't seek to patronize atheists, I just find the logic for God's existence more convincing. Your profoundly silly, disanalogous remarks about fairy tales and sky-daddies, quite frankly, end up with you looking like an arse.

So it is to you sir that I say: time to grow up, kiddie...

Well put Napoleon.

The thing that blows my mind is how people such as atheists don't believe in God. So what is their thought process. That we all just appeared out of no where for no reason and started multiplying.

Yeah, that makes alot of sense.

God has given you people all the proof that you need, (the bible, the mastery of how everything in the world works including life cycles, weather patterns, the way the planet takes it's course), and yet you deny his exsistence.

So I say to you like Napoleon so gracefully put, grow up kiddies because you people are the ones that are living a lie.

[Frigidus]

Well put Napoleon.

The thing that blows my mind is how people such as atheists don't believe in God. So what is their thought process. That we all just appeared out of no where for no reason and started multiplying.

Yeah, that makes alot of sense.

I hate to be a jerk about this kind of stuff, but your argument involves an all-powerful, all-knowing, zombie demigod who can't be described but is Definitely Real. Life, heck, existence itself is complex, and no matter what explanation we might give for it there has to, at some point, be an unexplainable event. Yours is creation by a god, ours is sheer coincidence.

God has given you people all the proof that you need, (the bible, the mastery of how everything in the world works including life cycles, weather patterns, the way the planet takes it's course), and yet you deny his exsistence.

The Bible bit aside (it was written and compiled by people, not a god), it is quite natural that everything around us suits our existence perfectly. After all, if it didn't we wouldn't exist to consider it. The universe is incomprehensibly huge. It goes on for as far as light can reach us while remaining focused and in all probability even further. It would actually be unlikely that a place suitable for life wouldn't exist.

So I say to you like Napoleon so gracefully put, grow up kiddies because you people are the ones that are living a lie.

I respectfully decline. I "grew up" in sixth grade, I just grew in a different direction.

[Neoteny]

Is it Frigid's turn for a pat on the back?

[Backglass]

This is a rather sickening example of intellectual arrogance.

So sayeth the King of Arrogance.

Back to your goats!

The thing that blows my mind is how people such as atheists don't believe in God. So what is their thought process. That we all just appeared out of no where for no reason and started multiplying?

IRONY METER!!!! OFF THE SCALE!

And what do you believe? Ah yes....that we "all appeared out of nowhere and started multiplying"...ie: creation.

Gotcha.

Yeah, that makes alot of sense. Confused

Exactly.

God has given you people all the proof that you need, (the bible, the mastery of how everything in the world works including life cycles, weather patterns, the way the planet takes it's course), and yet you deny his exsistence.

Exactly where in your book is the explanation for how "everything in the world works"? Perhaps you could inform the Weather Channel of these passages so that they could better improve their forcasting.

Yup...magical gods (all 737 of them throughout time, good & evil) don't exist. Hate to break it to ya. Living a lie indeed.

[Napoleon Ier]

Oh, I see Backglass! You, like comicboy, have uncovered so many of the great, fundamental truths underlying complex mechanisms of the universe and philosophy that you can call people like Flew and Anselm mere "kiddies" and no be considered of arrogant...my bad.

[cramill]

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

I believe this to be none other than our lovable President George W. Bush.

Since when has Bush spoken as a dragon?

[Backglass]

Oh, I see Backglass! You, like comicboy, have uncovered so many of the great, fundamental truths underlying complex mechanisms of the universe and philosophy that you can call people like Flew and Anselm mere "kiddies"...

Well, when you live your life by Mother Goose.....

[Guistard]

Well, when you live your life by Mother Goose.....

Umm, i'd like to see a citation, please.

[Neoteny]

Well, when you live your life by Mother Goose.....

Umm, i'd like to see a citation, please.

lmao

[Frigidus]

Well, when you live your life by Mother Goose.....

Umm, i'd like to see a citation, please.

Is that you Nappy? Or maybe Norse?

[Snorri1234]

Well, when you live your life by Mother Goose.....

Umm, i'd like to see a citation, please.

Is that you Nappy? Or maybe Norse?

I think it's Norse.

[Gregrios]

Atheism is convient for the weak willed person. Heck, to choose Atheism over God is the easy way out because you havn't got to change your life inorder to believe in it.

[Snorri1234]

Atheism is convient for the weak willed person. Heck, to choose Atheism over God is the easy way out because you havn't got to change your life inorder to believe in it.

Oh yes, I'm an atheist because I think it's convenient instead of because I think he's a fairy tale.

I have never in my life thought there was a god. It wasn't "obvious" or anything. I never thought: "Ohh, it's perfectly logical God send his own son/himself to this earth to be killed so that we could all get into heaven and that all the troubles in this world will disappear if we just start believing in him really hard!"
That shit just doesn't make sense to me.

[TheTrust]

Atheism is convient for the weak willed person. Heck, to choose Atheism over God is the easy way out because you havn't got to change your life inorder to believe in it.

Oh yes, I'm an atheist because I think it's convenient instead of because I think he's a fairy tale.

I have never in my life thought there was a god. It wasn't "obvious" or anything. I never thought: "Ohh, it's perfectly logical God send his own son/himself to this earth to be killed so that we could all get into heaven and that all the troubles in this world will disappear if we just start believing in him really hard!"
That shit just doesn't make sense to me.

Over time alot of things have lost specific nature. What you take out of this story is merely a portion jumbled together. There was a time when the reasons behind this, and the need for it were honoured, respected, revered by families, nations, generations themselves. Overtime and as the world grew, believes began to vary, people would either worship God or pledge an allegiance to another (or many at once). This is a recurring cycle.

From Adam and Eve who daily communicated with God, who then, after disobeying and having been removed from the garden had sons, one of whom fully respected God and another who became jealous and wondered why the son who respected God was so special and even killed him. (where he was then "cursed" to be known as God's enemy and of course his generation to follow).

The cycle rebooted so to speak when the flood destroyed everyone but Noah's family. This family revered, respected and loved God and was the only family spared on the face of the Earth. Of course, as the earth repopulated people strayed. For a time God was never forgotten and never stopped being feared, whether you hated or loved him, God was a major aspect of everyone's life.

Of course, the more populated the world became, the more generations build, the more self-sufficient we become and suddenly, God isnt such an important force in our lives. He takes a back seat to what we begin to accomplish ourselves. Eventually that initial bond of Creator and Creation becomes lost as the world grows and more and more people stop according such an importance to him. The result, generations down the line becomes the initial doubt that he even exists. Questions such as: "where is this God when floods are happening and people are dying" and finally, "There must be no god, have you seen him? I havent!"

From Adam, to the testing of Job, to today the devil who is also very real has been wedging and feeding that gap between God and Man. The devil doesnt need to turn people against God, he doesnt need to get people to hate God or denounce him, he can simply convince people that they dont need God. This self-inpowering anthem very slyly undermines the principle of the bond between Creator and Creation. God was feared and revered because he Created the world, his power is unlimited and he is the beginning and the end, yet not understood, For those who accept him, this becomes acceptable through Faith. For those who dont, it becomes an irritation because they don't see what the "believers" see in a "fictional Character"

It comes down to faith after awhile. There was a time when God showed up in person to talk with Adam and Eve and Nations were convinced that he was real. The Egyptians believed he was real even though they opposed him. The devil who is the "prince of this world" has done a great job of hiding God from us, to the point where we have no choice at times but to have faith in something we cant see. Even when Jesus walked the earth and healed the sick, resurrected the dead and had risen himself from the dead, the "religious leaders" of the era did not worship him, they did not admit their mistakes, they orchestrated a cover-up, they bribed the guards of the body to report that Jesus Followers Kidnapped his corpse. These were men who manipulated the word of God and their position of religious authority in their culture and were threatened when the son of God exposed them day after day in teachings. The culture developped by these people became more important. The System they developped to honour and worship their God became more important to them then God himself...

And that, my friend is why Jesus had to die. There was no other way that a society or we as a creation could go before God when we didnt accord his authority. In the bible God says "paraphrasing here" that people have been so blinded past a certain point that he will shut their eyes and allow them to be deceived by a great lie" After a certain point, God just becomes a nobody to us, he becomes a nothing. He's an expendable asset that we use to feel good or get a confidance boost, stroke our ego. But there are people in this world through the generations that have kept that bond with God, that question the bible and question where they've come from, and whats happened and want to live with God. God seperates the wheat from the weeds.

There was a parable in the bible about 2 men, one who planted continuously prosperous harvests and the other who was jealous, so the jealous man, one night, sneaked into the vinyard of the prosperous man and sabotaged all the plantings. Weeds began to grow with the crop and the servant recommended to the master that they pull everything out and start fresh. The master pointed out that among the weeds there was still good crop and so they let it grow, with time the weeds would limp and the good crop would hold firm. Soon after the weeds and good crop were easily seperated and they were both collected, crop set aside and weeds as well. The point of the parable was that God could start over fresh again if he wanted (like with the flood) but he promised Noah that he would never again send a flood. For the sake of those that care to know him and go to heaven, God does put up with alot of the things we as a creation do to him. The Jokes, the ridicule, cults, all these things that he hates to see in his creation and yet respecting our free will allows us to grow until the time to seperate his wheat from the weeds.

[Neoteny]

Atheism is convient for the weak willed person. Heck, to choose Atheism over God is the easy way out because you havn't got to change your life inorder to believe in it.

I'm not exactly sure how it is convenient for a weak will as atheists toss aside the comfort blanket that is an afterlife. That's something that apparently takes a rather strong will, considering we atheists are in the minority. Particularly as Christians cling unpleasantly to an idea of elitist salvation and eternal life. I'll let you decide which requires the stronger will; I will say that my opinion is neither. There are plenty of strong-willed individuals in either camp.

I don't live my life any differently morally between the times I was a Christian and my current atheism. It's a bit pretentious of you to assume otherwise.

TheTrust, I'm not sure what your point was, but I don't think it was effective in what you were trying to accomplish.

[TheTrust]

Atheism is convient for the weak willed person. Heck, to choose Atheism over God is the easy way out because you havn't got to change your life inorder to believe in it.

I'm not exactly sure how it is convenient for a weak will as atheists toss aside the comfort blanket that is an afterlife. That's something that apparently takes a rather strong will, considering we atheists are in the minority. Particularly as Christians cling unpleasantly to an idea of elitist salvation and eternal life. I'll let you decide which requires the stronger will; I will say that my opinion is neither. There are plenty of strong-willed individuals in either camp.

I don't live my life any differently morally between the times I was a Christian and my current atheism. It's a bit pretentious of you to assume otherwise.

TheTrust, I'm not sure what your point was, but I don't think it was effective in what you were trying to accomplish.

Pretentious of you to assume I was trying to accomplish anything other than to point out the breakdown of relationship between creation and creator, which I feel was clearly pointed out. You make an interesting point in stating that you live your life no differently morally between the times you were a christian and your current atheism. People can be morally respectable people on all camps. Your absolutely right. What it comes down to is faith on either end...

To assume there is no God takes just as much faith as to assume there is a God wouldn't you say? I mean, when all is said and done can you be 100% sure that in your atheism you will not stand before God and enter Heaven or not? Seems like Faith could put you on both sides of the fence.

The bible tells the story of a prince who did everything morally correct, he obeyed all the commandments but it was moreso in being civil than in just trying to obey God or accept a religion. You will find that the 10 commandments really (whether christian or not) earn you respect anyway, not stealing, not killing, always helping your neighbor, being honest, all these things whether you do it to obey God or just to maintain your moral status earn you respect. Anyway, this prince asked what more he would have to do to enter heaven, and Jesus told him to leave everything and follow him. The man could not do this. In following all the commandments and being socially respectable this young prince had earned great wealth and love among many people and whether or not it he was hoping it could also get him into heaven "on the side" we'll never know, but he was not able to put aside everything he had earned to follow God and it made him walk away sad.

Sometimes "afterlife" isnt a cushion. The Fear of God is a big element in the lives of alot of people because they know that there is a hell and hence, there is something to discourage them from giving into the everyday little "sin". Whether it be stealing, mouthing off, whatever, in times where they get discouraged they take solice in the fact that they are not living the life here for themselves, their life was a gift from God and they live it for him until that day when they can be with him again.

There are no sidelines in this world, there is a heaven and hell no matter how much (even I at times) wish there wasn't.

[Neoteny]

Atheism is convient for the weak willed person. Heck, to choose Atheism over God is the easy way out because you havn't got to change your life inorder to believe in it.

I'm not exactly sure how it is convenient for a weak will as atheists toss aside the comfort blanket that is an afterlife. That's something that apparently takes a rather strong will, considering we atheists are in the minority. Particularly as Christians cling unpleasantly to an idea of elitist salvation and eternal life. I'll let you decide which requires the stronger will; I will say that my opinion is neither. There are plenty of strong-willed individuals in either camp.

I don't live my life any differently morally between the times I was a Christian and my current atheism. It's a bit pretentious of you to assume otherwise.

TheTrust, I'm not sure what your point was, but I don't think it was effective in what you were trying to accomplish.

Pretentious of you to assume I was trying to accomplish anything other than to point out the breakdown of relationship between creation and creator, which I feel was clearly pointed out. You make an interesting point in stating that you live your life no differently morally between the times you were a christian and your current atheism. People can be morally respectable people on all camps. Your absolutely right. What it comes down to is faith on either end...

To assume there is no God takes just as much faith as to assume there is a God wouldn't you say? I mean, when all is said and done can you be 100% sure that in your atheism you will not stand before God and enter Heaven or not? Seems like Faith could put you on both sides of the fence.

The bible tells the story of a prince who did everything morally correct, he obeyed all the commandments but it was moreso in being civil than in just trying to obey God or accept a religion. You will find that the 10 commandments really (whether christian or not) earn you respect anyway, not stealing, not killing, always helping your neighbor, being honest, all these things whether you do it to obey God or just to maintain your moral status earn you respect. Anyway, this prince asked what more he would have to do to enter heaven, and Jesus told him to leave everything and follow him. The man could not do this. In following all the commandments and being socially respectable this young prince had earned great wealth and love among many people and whether or not it he was hoping it could also get him into heaven "on the side" we'll never know, but he was not able to put aside everything he had earned to follow God and it made him walk away sad.

Sometimes "afterlife" isnt a cushion. The Fear of God is a big element in the lives of alot of people because they know that there is a hell and hence, there is something to discourage them from giving into the everyday little "sin". Whether it be stealing, mouthing off, whatever, in times where they get discouraged they take solice in the fact that they are not living the life here for themselves, their life was a gift from God and they live it for him until that day when they can be with him again.

There are no sidelines in this world, there is a heaven and hell no matter how much (even I at times) wish there wasn't.

Forgive my pretensions; your point was unclear to me.

"Faith" is a term too carelessly thrown around in discussions of religion and nonreligion. Sure atheism and trust in reason requires faith on my part, but to compare it to the leap of faith required to accept, in your case, the Bible, is specious. Additionally, the examples set and major tenets of most religions, particularly the concept of hell, are particularly disgraceful to me and not attributable to an entity worthy of the title of "god."

[DaGip]

Atheism is convient for the weak willed person. Heck, to choose Atheism over God is the easy way out because you havn't got to change your life inorder to believe in it.

I'm not exactly sure how it is convenient for a weak will as atheists toss aside the comfort blanket that is an afterlife. That's something that apparently takes a rather strong will, considering we atheists are in the minority. Particularly as Christians cling unpleasantly to an idea of elitist salvation and eternal life. I'll let you decide which requires the stronger will; I will say that my opinion is neither. There are plenty of strong-willed individuals in either camp.

I don't live my life any differently morally between the times I was a Christian and my current atheism. It's a bit pretentious of you to assume otherwise.

TheTrust, I'm not sure what your point was, but I don't think it was effective in what you were trying to accomplish.

I believe in Reincarnation, the transfer of my energy back into the Universe. and the energy that makes up your consciousness (and perhaps a few learned memories) can emerge as another life, somewhere else. Perhaps another human or perhaps not. It depends on what the last thoughts of the mind at death. If one focusses his/her death meditation towards coming back as a human, then that is what he or she will come back as. It doesn't really matter as all lifeforms continue on until they reach an enlightened stage. That enlightenment releases you from reincarnation and you will never come back ever again. You enter into nothingness. This is why Sidhartha Buddha will never return, he reached enlightenment and remains a part of everything, yet is part of nothing.

Most life forms choose to come back over and over and over again, for millions and millions of years; but eventually they will evolve into a higher conscioussness and will become enlightened at some point.

Are humans the only beings that can become enlightened? My belief is no. I think any living creature can find enlightenment and escape from this cycle of suffering, death, and rebirth.

You don't have to believe in a god to believe in reincarnation. I don't know if I talked to you about this before, but the Universe makes more sense as energy cycling and converging. And those convergences make certain patterns and geometries in accordance to their Velocity and Mass.

I believe that there is a HyperConscioussness that collects information like a giant database, and when certain events happen in the Universe that would throw a system out of balance, the HyperConscioussness sends signals out (like a SuperBrain) to correct imbalances in all systems. It is doing this all the time.

I believe it does this through the Stars and the Sun, and that all things are connected (like a Spider's Web) back to the Impulse Event (the Big Bang) that started the entire Universe. And what lies a little bit beyond that Impulse Event is the Universal Hyper Conscious.

Some people try to tag the Hyper Conscious with human attributes (which is quite normal to do, as that is the only way that many of us could possibly come to grips with such majesty and awe), but in reality it can't be gauged by human labels.

I am fine with calling it God, as it doesn't really care what you call it.

Sometimes I call it the Great Iswasat or Wasatis or Isatwas (the reason being because it is such an all enveloping HyperConscioussness that it exists and prevades all space and time, including all present, past, and future events; thusly the combined term ISWASAT for it is the IS and the WAS and the AT, which is to say the yet to be)

When atheism was my thing, I used to refer to God as The Great and Glorious Duh!

But I evolved from that childish mentality, and it is easier for me just to call it God.

And She is so powerful, that She can do anything!

[Neoteny]

I believe in Reincarnation, the transfer of my energy back into the Universe. and the energy that makes up your consciousness (and perhaps a few learned memories) can emerge as another life, somewhere else. Perhaps another human or perhaps not. It depends on what the last thoughts of the mind at death. If one focusses his/her death meditation towards coming back as a human, then that is what he or she will come back as. It doesn't really matter as all lifeforms continue on until they reach an enlightened stage. That enlightenment releases you from reincarnation and you will never come back ever again. You enter into nothingness. This is why Sidhartha Buddha will never return, he reached enlightenment and remains a part of everything, yet is part of nothing.

Most life forms choose to come back over and over and over again, for millions and millions of years; but eventually they will evolve into a higher conscioussness and will become enlightened at some point.

Are humans the only beings that can become enlightened? My belief is no. I think any living creature can find enlightenment and escape from this cycle of suffering, death, and rebirth.

You don't have to believe in a god to believe in reincarnation. I don't know if I talked to you about this before, but the Universe makes more sense as energy cycling and converging. And those convergences make certain patterns and geometries in accordance to their Velocity and Mass.

I believe that there is a HyperConscioussness that collects information like a giant database, and when certain events happen in the Universe that would throw a system out of balance, the HyperConscioussness sends signals out (like a SuperBrain) to correct imbalances in all systems. It is doing this all the time.

I believe it does this through the Stars and the Sun, and that all things are connected (like a Spider's Web) back to the Impulse Event (the Big Bang) that started the entire Universe. And what lies a little bit beyond that Impulse Event is the Universal Hyper Conscious.

Some people try to tag the Hyper Conscious with human attributes (which is quite normal to do, as that is the only way that many of us could possibly come to grips with such majesty and awe), but in reality it can't be gauged by human labels.

I am fine with calling it God, as it doesn't really care what you call it.

Sometimes I call it the Great Iswasat or Wasatis or Isatwas (the reason being because it is such an all enveloping HyperConscioussness that it exists and prevades all space and time, including all present, past, and future events; thusly the combined term ISWASAT for it is the IS and the WAS and the AT, which is to say the yet to be)

When atheism was my thing, I used to refer to God as The Great and Glorious Duh!

But I evolved from that childish mentality, and it is easier for me just to call it God.

And She is so powerful, that She can do anything!

So how do you describe your religious perspective to people in one or two words, Gip? I'm not sure I could do it...

[DaGip]

Atheism is convient for the weak willed person. Heck, to choose Atheism over God is the easy way out because you havn't got to change your life inorder to believe in it.

I'm not exactly sure how it is convenient for a weak will as atheists toss aside the comfort blanket that is an afterlife. That's something that apparently takes a rather strong will, considering we atheists are in the minority. Particularly as Christians cling unpleasantly to an idea of elitist salvation and eternal life. I'll let you decide which requires the stronger will; I will say that my opinion is neither. There are plenty of strong-willed individuals in either camp.

I don't live my life any differently morally between the times I was a Christian and my current atheism. It's a bit pretentious of you to assume otherwise.

TheTrust, I'm not sure what your point was, but I don't think it was effective in what you were trying to accomplish.

Well, I would have to say that you are not living your life any different morally, because your very essence of existing in America engrained your behaviours to reflect Christianized values and morals.

So to say that Christianity is useless, is not really giving it due credit.

What if America was established by Anton LeVay? And the Satanic Bible was what people adhered to for two hundred some years? Then how would you behave, think, and act? I think you would behave a bit differently.

Whether or not we believe in the Bible or the specific tenents of any particular Christianized faith, we are still emersed by Western Christianized thoughts. That is why (in my opinion) you act no differently morally as a nonChristian as opposed to if you were still practicing Christianity.

Just a thought. Christian teachings (do unto others...,love your enemy..., give to the poor...) need a little credit for how most of us westernized people behave. I don't mind reading the Bible every once in a while, as I like what Jesus says in the New Testament, and it actually makes sense. So even though I do not think of myself as a Christian, I still practice what Jesus says in the Bible. Just as I practice what Buddha had said in his teachings.

I grew up in Christianity, and then when I went to Hawaii for a few months, I was introduced to the teaching of Buddha in the libraries there. I would read those books everyday, along with my Bible I carried with me...and you know what?

Buddha said the EXACT same things, almost entirely verbatim! And Buddha existed 500 years before Jesus! So this tells me something!

Jesus acquired his teachings from the same source as Buddha, or he actually studied Buddhism and brought it to Israel.

But I just wanted you to know that because you are an atheist doesn't mean that you all of a sudden turn into a murderous asshole. You still cling on to teachings of the Christians even if you don't realize it. And that is a good thing!