BadMoonRising [Cleared]

[AAFitz]

Subject line: didnt post name because there are possible explanations

These are suspected Multis

Suspect users: <BadMoonRising>

Game number: http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?p ... ing&sort=D

Comments: <enter comments here>

I prefer no cards. It takes more patience and calculation. and makes the game more fluid for me.

esc is about running the board and chaining cards. The first game I won was on the North American board with 8 folks. I won the game on turn 8.
red had some bad dice and I noticed he had 4 cards. I took him and three others out. The next turn I received 25 armies for all my territories..took out the next weakest and won that turn.

It was LUCK. I knew what to do but I was at the mercy of the dice and cards.

Rank: New Recruit New Recruit
Score: 962
Games: 3 Completed, 0 (0%) Won
Find all games with BadMoonRising


there is at least one possible explanation... It was not a game in CC, but the first game he ever won in risk ever, which was in real life which he plays quite a bit, and just found this place....or another site, or he was babysitting someones account when he posted accidentally...

I recommend players reserve judgment till the check is made... this is very circumstantial at this stage...

[comic boy]

Do other sites or a board version have 8 player games on the North America map ?

[sully800]

Great evidence as always AA.

Here is the game that is being referenced http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=1641351

BadMoonRising is busted with Iron Butterfly

[Iron Butterfly]

BadMoonRising Is my son.

I try to stay clear of BS as I recognize that on the internet I never know who is speaking, and it is not worth the time. No matter what one says someone will poke holes or think they are.

I logged into his account to moniter his games and forgot to log out and posted. I was speaking as me when describing a game I had won. Read my game log and you will see that I indeed won a game as I described.

Look at our logs and look at our records and it will show no funny bussinesss or cheating. We just like to play risk. Look at our record and feed back and call us cheats. I am not buying another computer so we can both enjoy play.

I understand why they need to set rules and guidlines so I am not angry as there are valid cheats out there. But I am angry at this. I am angry at the hypocracy. This is the end of the email I received.

If you have Free Membership:
We've blocked you from playing new games and posting to the forum. The
only way to remove this limitation is to upgrade to Premium Membership.
Our Premium Membership fee shouldn't be too much for something you can
enjoy every day. Plus, you'll be supporting the development of new
features and continuous improvements to the website.

If you have Premium Membership and this is your first violation:
We've cancelled your Premium Membership and blocked you from playing
games with the members mentioned above.

If you have Premium Membership and this is your second violation:
We've cancelled your Premium Membership and blocked you from playing
new games and posting to the forum. The only way to remove this
limitation is to upgrade to Premium Membership once again.

Regards,
The Conquer Club

This is just plain extortion. You want to stop cheats fine do so. But do not turn around and say that we caught you cheating but its ok if you pay us for premium. I was more then happy to pay premium when i joined two or so weeks ago.

I would have been more then happy to renew next year. I wont pay another dime and will be more then happy to play my 4 game limit LOL which will probobly help my rating and average...so I am grateful for that.

I hate BS and Wont be gouged for more money.

Be well all and happy gaming

[delboy01]

Looking at the evidence I would have to say that it does look like father son combo.

They have never played together and no other account has been associated with him. so how can they be deemed a multi.

I think that this guy and his son should be re-installed.

With regard to his comments re- pay again to be re-instated. I have to say that this is putting me off CC more and more.

[MOBAJOBG]

Well, sully800 ...perhaps you could re-open this case for further investigation. My gut says the innocent has just been wrongly penalized.

[jecko7]

This is just plain extortion. You want to stop cheats fine do so. But do not turn around and say that we caught you cheating but its ok if you pay us for premium. I was more then happy to pay premium when i joined two or so weeks ago.

I would have been more then happy to renew next year. I wont pay another dime and will be more then happy to play my 4 game limit LOL which will probobly help my rating and average...so I am grateful for that.

I hate BS and Wont be gouged for more money.

Be well all and happy gaming

I think it's totally legit that if you pay CC after you cheat, you can keep playing.

Think of CC as the real world (shouldn't be too hard for some people on here...). What they're basically doing is fining people $25 for cheating. Repeat offenders get fined an additional $25. Threepeat offenders receive capital punishment - permaban, life imprisonment with no bail and no parole. Execution by lethal injection. You get the picture.

Although on topic, I agree that this could very well be a father-son duo, and that banning is a little harsh considering there's reasonable doubt and that they don't actually play games with each other. Just my opinion though.

[wcaclimbing]

Well, sully800 ...perhaps you could re-open this case for further investigation. My gut says the innocent has just been wrongly penalized.

I agree.

[AAFitz]

This is hardly BS, one of you were playing with an account that wasnt yours, and mistakenly posted.

I posted this because I wanted it to be handled fairly, because I knew there were some possible explanations. Also, because I take accusations seriously, so I knew I could post to help clear your name if it was just a mistake.

Sully is a great hunter. He will review your case and work with you to see what really happened.

You cant blame them for doing this, though, because there was no other choice. Clearly it was one player posting from another account. An easy mistake, and one ive made while baby sitting other peoples accounts, but it does show two people playing from the same Ip on two accounts.

Personally, I think this was a professional post and bust. You cant possibly have expected anything else. Now that we know your story, I happen to believe you. I think you may have taken it more personally than you should have considering the circumstances... but I also understand it sucks being called a cheater. Not many react all that well to it...

In a perfect world, Sully would have been able to chat with you and see what was happening, but there simply isnt time for that... and since nine out of ten times, a case like this is an actual multi, they have no choice but to bust and correct if there is enough evidence to clear.

Im glad I took this one on though, because I do happen to believe you, and once Sully checks your story, will have no problem posting that you are not a cheater at all as often as necessary.

It is cases like this that show why cheating is so detrimental to the site. Innocent players pay the price all the time.

[AAFitz]

Short version...

the case had to be posted

Sully had to bust him with the available info

Im sure the case will be reviewed, and as I posted... I fully believe him

Its not a perfect system, and you can thank the many cheaters past and present for causing these problems. Its why so many work hard to find them.

[Iron Butterfly]

Ladies and Gents,

I have no problem with what you do, how you do it and why you do what you did.

I honestly didnt think such a big deal would be made from this. I have posted a ticket.

I simply received a ticket that said I was banned and that all would be forgiven if I put some more quarters in the game machine. THAT is what irked me. One can rationalize anything to make it seem right. The game is not that important to me to pay a so called fine. Fines stop nothing except make the CC coffer larger.

One can just as easily make two free accounts and get away with murder.
Whatever is decided life will go on, folks will bum rush Australia, people will curse the dice and husbands will listen to wives forever complain on how they waste money on stupid crap.

best regards

[AAFitz]

Partially true, but the fines do insure less cheaters are around, and considering the time that is put into investigating them... they are more than justified...

In your case though, if you really have a son, youll be fine... Sully is very reasonable, and thorough... mistakes are inevitable, but all of the hunters work very hard to fix them.

[Hotdoggie]

Partially true, but the fines do insure less cheaters are around, and considering the time that is put into investigating them... they are more than justified...

In your case though, if you really have a son, youll be fine... Sully is very reasonable, and thorough... mistakes are inevitable, but all of the hunters work very hard to fix them.

Idd, the fines are a great idea! Cheaters can either pay for their bad deeds and help the site, or leave - either is super!

And also idd, the hunters do an awesome job, some slip ups happen.

[Tk 421]

Guys. This guy never played with his son, He has infact broken no rules. He hasn't got a secret alliance nor has he got a multi account. Therefore He souldn't have to pay $20 Just to contiue To pay!

[oVo]

Short version...

the case had to be posted

Sully had to bust him with the available info

I'm sure the case will be reviewed, and as I posted... I fully believe him

The case had to be posted... this makes sense.

Sully had to bust him with the available info... this doesn't make sense.
Sure there are two players who share an IP, but
BadMoonRising and Iron Butterfly have not played a single game together,
so why would they be busted as cheats ?

I'm sure the case will be reviewed, and should be re-reviewed.
If a rush to judgement occurred and an honest mistake was made, this situation should be corrected asap.

[Iron Butterfly]

I have found that other accounts are set up just as ours with husbands, wives, brothers and sisters.

We didnt cheat nor are we cheaters.

Last night I received an email that my sons account was unblocked so that we can play together.

I would now like my Premium restored. AA sent me a supportive email as well and asked that I be patient as it may take time to resolve.

[AAFitz]

Sure there are two players who share an IP, but
BadMoonRising and Iron Butterfly have not played a single game together,
so why would they be busted as cheats ?

It did need to be a bust... it wasnt that there were two players from one IP... it was that one player was using both accounts, and posted with the wrong one. In this case, it was a simple mistake, but in almost every other case like this, it is an actual multi.

They would not have been busted for simply having two accounts...otherwise, id have been busted as well as many other players.... it was the one person in both accounts that made it look like a multi...

they cant go through in a situation like this, and make sure there isnt some silly mistake... it would take longer than it does already, which is too long....

the bust is made, the appeal process is open, and in this case worked perfectly...

no one ever called them cheaters... they were accused of and busted of having a multi account, which is exactly what it was, when one person was using two accounts... it just turned out, that it was by accident... but you cant expect a multi hunter to know that...

Im glad this worked out, and I am glad im the one that posted it, because I am very glad to say they are two separate players, and not multi's, and I hope they enjoy the game like many other families on the site...

[Senfive]

Sure there are two players who share an IP, but
BadMoonRising and Iron Butterfly have not played a single game together,
so why would they be busted as cheats ?

It did need to be a bust... it wasnt that there were two players from one IP... it was that one player was using both accounts, and posted with the wrong one. In this case, it was a simple mistake, but in almost every other case like this, it is an actual multi.

This is where I disagree with AAFitz. I was using my wifes account a year ago. Was not busted and didn't lose my Premium at the time. Why he should lose his is beyond me.

I made the same mistake a year ago. My wife went out of town for a while and I was in charge of making sure she didn't miss her turns. I was also in a Mafia game with my account. I posted in the Mafia game under my wifes name and Wicked caught it before I did.Only thing I can think of is that I made a thread announcing my wife made an account. Therfore Wicked wasn't broadsided when I made that dumb post in the Mafia game.

Sully this is why I question your quick bust,
1. One was a Premium account.
2. They never played a single game together.
3. What reason would a person who buys Premium make a multi and not play in any games together?

[AAFitz]

This is where I disagree with AAFitz. I was using my wifes account a year ago. Was not busted and didn't lose my Premium at the time. Why he should lose his is beyond me.

He should not lose his, and only lost it for a day or two...... he had it taken away initially, and it was given back immediately... had someone made an accusation of you using your wifes, you may have been initially busted too... youd have appealed, and proved it was you were just making a few moves for her and all would have been fixed. In my post I even purposely left his name out of the title, just in case there was a mistake... You cant blame Sully, for following the procedure though. There is simply no other way for it to be done.

If youre suggesting, that the hunters shouldnt bust people when they find two players playing one account from the same IP initially... I suggest you volunteer your time as a hunter so you can investigate every single one every time before a bust is made to make sure it isnt a mistake....

Its as fair as the process can be.... initial busts are necessary... 9 time out of 10 in this situation its a foolish kid that forgot to log out and posted with his own account.

Luckilly ive never been formally accused.. but my dad has had 3 secret alliance accusations.... I simply posted his side of the story and they were resolved quickly... but if one of the the accusations was with me, and we were playing from the same computer, id fully expect a bust, and that Id have to prove we were two separate people....

I was going to leave this as is, and bait someone for fun, but hes in another state, and I am absolutely positive, that the two Ips have been checked.... the only other account i have at my Ip is my gf who plays from her laptop.... if I got busted, Id simply have to show it was her and not me... if it was me, playing too many of her moves, playing when she was around.... Id deserve to get busted...

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

1 account per IP. thats the only way

[Senfive]

This is where I disagree with AAFitz. I was using my wifes account a year ago. Was not busted and didn't lose my Premium at the time. Why he should lose his is beyond me.

He should not lose his, and only lost it for a day or two...... he had it taken away initially, and it was given back immediately... had someone made an accusation of you using your wifes, you may have been initially busted too... youd have appealed, and proved it was you were just making a few moves for her and all would have been fixed. In my post I even purposely left his name out of the title, just in case there was a mistake... You cant blame Sully, for following the procedure though. There is simply no other way for it to be done.

If youre suggesting, that the hunters shouldnt bust people when they find two players playing one account from the same IP initially... I suggest you volunteer your time as a hunter so you can investigate every single one every time before a bust is made to make sure it isnt a mistake....

Its as fair as the process can be.... initial busts are necessary... 9 time out of 10 in this situation its a foolish kid that forgot to log out and posted with his own account.

Luckilly ive never been formally accused.. but my dad has had 3 secret alliance accusations.... I simply posted his side of the story and they were resolved quickly... but if one of the the accusations was with me, and we were playing from the same computer, id fully expect a bust, and that Id have to prove we were two separate people....

I was going to leave this as is, and bait someone for fun, but hes in another state, and I am absolutely positive, that the two Ips have been checked.... the only other account i have at my Ip is my gf who plays from her laptop.... if I got busted, Id simply have to show it was her and not me... if it was me, playing too many of her moves, playing when she was around.... Id deserve to get busted...

Oh so true. I read the thread wrong then. I am sorry for calling his name but its his post that made the initial bust and the Topic Still says Busted.

I highlighted in red what you said about volunteering my time as a hunter. Right now I spend 12hrs a night at work bored stupid cause my job is to maintain networks. have nothing to do but browse CC 98% of the time. I would gladly help hunting if I could but in reality I doubt they would let me. Not saying I am perfect.

Sully I am sorry. Your job is harder than it looks and I know not what you do when you aren't on CC. I know you have a life and I was just being childish when I posted what I did. For that I hope you forgive me.

[sully800]

No worries Senfive.

The original bust was made because the evidence made it clear that one person was using both accounts. It's true that a premium account has little use for a second account if they never play together...I'm sure that's one of the reasons why they were cleared once they appealed.

The reason this was still marked busted is because KA and I handle cases through the forums. Andy gets the appeals through etickets and KA and I will re-look at the case if necessary as well. Since the reactivation occurred outside of the forum I didn't update the thread until now.

Iron Butterfly and BadMoonRising have been cleared.

[delboy01]

1 account per IP. thats the only way

Totally disagree. You are saying that two people using the same computer must be the same person and therefore a cheat.

Provided they do not play together V others there should not be a problem.

And no, no-one else uses my PC.

[Genghis Khan CA]

I simply received a ticket that said I was banned and that all would be forgiven if I put some more quarters in the game machine. THAT is what irked me. One can rationalize anything to make it seem right. The game is not that important to me to pay a so called fine. Fines stop nothing except make the CC coffer larger.

Just to help Iron Butterfly's peace of mind... I think the thought process behind this is that everyone deserves a second chance, a punishment is appropriate, such as having to get/restore premium to be able to play again, but having a relatively 'light' punishment for a first offender is entirely appropriate. Most will learn their lesson after being caught for the first time and this proves the system works.

I know there have been some cases of repeat/serial multies, guys who just don't learn. They are given the second and in some cases third chance, but eventually repeat offenders are permanently banned for the protection of the site's integrity. No amount of money can be used to buy that off.

I understand that you were aggrieved at being accussed of having multi accounts, but the fact is the system works well, there are always going to be some flaws because of the difficulty of the multi-hunting task, the evidence will not always be clear-cut.

[BadMoonRising]

How longs it take to turn the electricity back on?

Its Thursday and I still cant play new games.

Im trying to work my way back down to cook.