New York City [Quenched]

snapdoodle · Post by **snapdoodle** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:07 pm

InkL0sed wrote:This is what I think the bonuses should be. Obviously they aren't perfect either, but something to think about:

Manhattan: 12
Uptown: 3
Downtown: 5

Queens: 13
Inner: 3
Outer: 5

Bronx: 10
West: 5
East: 4

Brooklyn: 16
North: 6
East: 3
South: 5

Staten Island: 2

actually i like these a lot.

snapdoodle · Post by **snapdoodle** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:17 pm

JACKAZZTJM wrote:I imagined the map to have this modern metalic look to it .......it just doesnt appeal to me no graphics

modern metallic could be a lot of things so I think i need more feedback than that.

but we are working on adding touches of detail here and there. More than likely we probably don't want to add texture. in part because we're really intent on keeping a clean and less cluttered map. this is especially true because of the number of territories and because of how the trains weave across territories.

FreeMan10 · Post by **FreeMan10** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:54 pm

snapdoodle wrote:More than likely we probably don't want to add texture. in part because we're really intent on keeping a clean and less cluttered map. this is especially true because of the number of territories and because of how the trains weave across territories.

Don't forget, this is based on the TA subway map, and there's not a whole lot of texture in the background of that, if I recall correctly.

snapdoodle · Post by **snapdoodle** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:21 am

Small - new v12

Large - new v12

Greets,

Benny and I chat conferenced this update since I'm ill.

The Done List:

~added skyline
~changed graf color and style
~shifted jersey
~enlarged the statue of liberty (was too small for 88)
~changed bonuses! (thanks inkl0sed)
~adjusted tert names and army circles so they won't overlap with 888.
~added color boxes to legend

To do:

We're still hashing out the new stuff we've added. Benny has qualms with some of the graphical stuff I've added so we'll change some stuff later. But overall we're just responding to feedback so fire back!

-snap

and benny by proxy even though he really wishes we had held off on posting...

benny profane · Post by **benny profane** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:29 am

snap tells the truth, there is plenty about this new version i'm not pleased with.
but, i don't want to influence the feedback, so i'll hold off for a bit.

Incandenza · Post by **Incandenza** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:33 am

If nothing else, you guys seem to have gotten the DUMBO issues worked out.

edbeard · Post by **edbeard** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:36 am

It looks like the skyline is on some sort of track and is going to fall off the edge of the sign

Or, maybe it's just slipping.

fumandomuerte · Post by **fumandomuerte** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:42 am

Why does the bonuses changed from the small picture to the large?

I think you should reconsider the bonus of most of the continents, they don't agree with the balance of attack-defense.
For example, East Brooklyn is attacked by 9 neighbors and you're giving a plus of 3??? no way man...

9 attackers
4 borders
4 territories to defend
Total=17
17/3=5.66 very near to 6

snapdoodle · Post by **snapdoodle** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:11 am

fumandomuerte wrote:Why does the bonuses changed from the small picture to the large?

I think you should reconsider the bonus of most of the continents, they don't agree with the balance of attack-defense.
For example, East Brooklyn is attacked by 9 neighbors and you're giving a plus of 3??? no way man...

9 attackers
4 borders
4 territories to defend
Total=17
17/3=5.66 very near to 6

The first thing is a mistake on my part. I'm sick and it was late.

The large map bonuses are the right ones.

As for the bonus we're giving it, if you look back some in this thread, the bonuses are something we're in the middle of working out. But East Brooklyn in particular should not be more than three because of the likely hood of starting with that entire bonus increases because there are so many terts. Giving it a 5 or 6 bonus means that someone at some point will start with it and it would be hard to take it from them. So the bonuses are being calculated differently.

Roger Dodger · Post by **Roger Dodger** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:17 am

hey, i grew up in the Port Morris area !!!

sounds fancy huh? it's really the South Bronx boys & girls.

fumandomuerte · Post by **fumandomuerte** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:49 am

snapdoodle wrote:As for the bonus we're giving it, if you look back some in this thread, the bonuses are something we're in the middle of working out. But East Brooklyn in particular should not be more than three because of the likely hood of starting with that entire bonus increases because there are so many terts. Giving it a 5 or 6 bonus means that someone at some point will start with it and it would be hard to take it from them. So the bonuses are being calculated differently.

What about fixing that whit some neutral terits?

FreeMan10 · Post by **FreeMan10** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:33 am

I agree that the skyline looks like it's ready to slip off the top of the sign - maybe give it a bit of a kick to the left? Don't center it, that'd be too neat.

Also, the graffiti on the sign looks too 'nice'. Like you were trying not to cover up too much of the sign. I realize that you're trying to leave 'New York' readable for ID purposes, but a real tag-artist wouldn't care about such trivial matters - the sign is his canvas and what's underneath is irrelevant. I think that in an effort to achieve an authentic feel, you could cover more of the 'significant' lettering on the sign (who cares what the population of NYC is, at least for our purposes) since the person creating a game based on this map will know the map name from the selection grid, those choosing to join the game will see the map name listed underneath the map in the list of available games, and once you're in the game, if you can't tell that this is NYC, you've probably got other issues to deal with.

I think I've now used my daily quota of commas and run-on sentences, so I'll sign off here. Keep up the great work, guys!

benny profane · Post by **benny profane** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:53 am

i pretty much agree with everyone so far.
-the traffic sign/title needs to be much larger
-the skyline needs to be shrunk a bit and extended to fit the sign
-the bonuses aren't done
-the ferry routes look worse than before
-and the graffiti is horrible

the best version of the graffiti hasn't been posted for some reason.
snap insisted on posting to get something out there,
but i don't see the point in posting when the work is incomplete and shoddy!

also, snap forgot to mention that we changed the color of staten island to accommodate suggestions that it was too similar to brooklyn.

benny profane · Post by **benny profane** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:01 am

fumandomuerte wrote:
snapdoodle wrote:As for the bonus we're giving it, if you look back some in this thread, the bonuses are something we're in the middle of working out. But East Brooklyn in particular should not be more than three because of the likely hood of starting with that entire bonus increases because there are so many terts. Giving it a 5 or 6 bonus means that someone at some point will start with it and it would be hard to take it from them. So the bonuses are being calculated differently.
What about fixing that whit some neutral terits?

oops, forgot to address this.
snap and i are both very opposed to adding neutrals.
your calculation is correct, but if you look on page 11 of this thread,
you'll see oaktown's very good point about common sense trumping the bonus calculator.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:05 pm

I like the new signature, and it is quite fine as it is. If you wanted to you could slightly alter both names in the graffiti to make them stand out a little more, perhaps with a gray, or some other neutral tone. I've seen lots of graffiti tags where certain words were stylized and set apart with different color.

--Andy

gimil · Post by **gimil** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:11 pm

Im stuggling to pick out any major graphical issues. So lets hope oaktown is in here soon. The only think I can see is its a little difficult to read some terr names that pass over train lines, but I don't know how you would fix that so dont worry about it to much.

Another point, you note on how the rtain lines attack doesnt really make sence to me. Could you reword it?

InkL0sed · Post by **InkL0sed** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:14 pm

I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but this is something I noticed when coming up with the bonuses: if there is more than one subway station in a continent, it essentially adds a border to the continent.

Let's take Brooklyn, for example. If you're holding DUMBO and East New York, then you don't have to worry about the enemy holding that subway station, because s/he still has to attack that territory to break you. However, if you have DUMBO and someone else has the DUMBO train station, then your enemy can go on to the Sunset Park station and break you there instead. So now you have to either guard Sunset Park (which is a bad idea because it would also require guarding Coney Island), Sunset Park's station, or DUMBO station. I noticed you tried to have the stations on border territories, but this is not true everywhere. I hope you factored that in when making bonuses.

benny profane · Post by **benny profane** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:48 pm

InkL0sed wrote:I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but this is something I noticed when coming up with the bonuses: if there is more than one subway station in a continent, it essentially adds a border to the continent.

Let's take Brooklyn, for example. If you're holding DUMBO and East New York, then you don't have to worry about the enemy holding that subway station, because s/he still has to attack that territory to break you. However, if you have DUMBO and someone else has the DUMBO train station, then your enemy can go on to the Sunset Park station and break you there instead. So now you have to either guard Sunset Park (which is a bad idea because it would also require guarding Coney Island), Sunset Park's station, or DUMBO station. I noticed you tried to have the stations on border territories, but this is not true everywhere. I hope you factored that it when making bonuses.

yeah, we were aware.
this is exactly why the bonuses were so high to begin with.
it's going to take some puzzling to get this right.

don't worry gimil, that sentence will be re-worded.

FreeMan10 · Post by **FreeMan10** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:16 pm

benny profane wrote:don't worry gimil, that sentence will be re-worded.

FreeMan10 wrote:
i'd also like to rewrite the line about the stations. it doesn't quite work right now.
How 'bout something like this:
"Subway Stations and Transfer Stations can attack adjacent stations and the territory they are in. The subway lines are their own bonuses."

that suggestion was back on page... 14ish. Thought it might help to refresh memories.

benny profane · Post by **benny profane** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:30 pm

FreeMan10 wrote:
benny profane wrote:don't worry gimil, that sentence will be re-worded.

FreeMan10 wrote:
i'd also like to rewrite the line about the stations. it doesn't quite work right now.
How 'bout something like this:
"Subway Stations and Transfer Stations can attack adjacent stations and the territory they are in. The subway lines are their own bonuses."
that suggestion was back on page... 14ish. Thought it might help to refresh memories.

don't worry buddy, i didn't forget about that!

FreeMan10 · Post by **FreeMan10** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:22 am

benny profane wrote:don't worry buddy, i didn't forget about that!

Awwww... "buddy"? Man, I really feel like part of the team now!

Glad I can be helpful.

rustlemania · Post by **rustlemania** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:03 am

how about saying something like "subway and continent bonuses are separate."
I think the sign should be just a tad bigger, and the graffiti to be more 'in your face'.
i like the bonuses as is... it'll be a real battle.

JACKAZZTJM · Post by **JACKAZZTJM** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:14 pm

Juust an idea What do you think about a ground 0 deduction penalty?

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:14 pm

JACKAZZTJM wrote:Juust an idea What do you think about a ground 0 deduction penalty?

I don't think "Ground Zero" figures on the map (as it is part of DUMBO? (Or is it FD?))

C.

snapdoodle · Post by **snapdoodle** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:54 pm

It would be part of FD if we were to include it.

I don't think we're going to go that route. I think that would be a good inclusion for a manhattan map. The problem with including landmarks such as that here, is that manhattan would be filled with them and manhattan is short on space as it is.

Possibly good for a manhattan map where you could include all the recognizable landmarks of the city.