if the conquer key was part of the objective, i think that this map is too bonus-loaded for it to ever be used.Tieryn wrote:I've had thoughts along this way, certainly for the Escape key. (or the No Escape key?) "Escapeless" maybewhitestazn88 wrote:i think the conquer key should have the ability to bombard, and you should change esc and backspace/delete to something like alcatraz in the san fran map.. maybe? i dunno, just throwing shit out there
Logically, it's delete and backspace that can "delete" keystrokes, which is what I'd analogise bombarding too.
Maybe the conquer key could just have some bonuses?
Or perhaps the winning objective could be forming some word, (including capitalisation or shift) and perhaps some number combination - to make it long and not easily achievable... and the Conquer key.
The only function it serves is to finish the game, it starts full of neutrals, people wouldn't go for it unless they had the word, and when they had the word, everyone would be trying to stop them...
thoughts on this idea? I think this could be a map where objectives are important... Perhaps there could be several possible winning objectives (to make the game more interesting), I'd be thinking perhaps an 8 or 9 unique letter word, the shift key, three numbers (arbitrary... would like to justify this somehow) and then the conquer key.
2 Shifts or capslock would have 3 possibilities that way.
So you'd have to get
[large # of letters from lots of possibles]
----------[one of three caps]---------------
--------------[CONQUER]------------------
Or instead of including numbers in the words.. that could be its own objective...
(territories to win/74)
Objective 1) - Hold "Conquer Club" (10 letters), + a Shift, + Conquer (12/74)
Objective 2) - Hold any single row + Conquer
{` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = backspace conquer} (15/74) or
{tab q w e r t y u i o p [ ] \ conquer} (15/74) or
{capslock a s d f g h j k l ; ' conquer} (13/74) or
{shift z x c v b n m , . / shift conquer} (13/74) or
{Esc F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 F7 F8 F9 F10 F11 F12} (14/74)
The massive interconnectedness makes this less easy that it might initially look. 12/74 is a hard lot to get.
To make it so you couldn't start with a win, and obviously... you start with a blank document. Everything is 1/random/varied neutrals to begin with, except conquer which is more, and the starting points are Start, Start, Alt, Alt, Ctrl, Ctrl, Tab, Del. 8 starting locations.
This will definately increase gameplay possibilities and remove the "insta-win" condition.
QWERTY Keyboard - Brand New Design [vacation]
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whitestazn88
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haven't read the entire thread, but i wanted to pop my head in and comment based on the map/first post. If my concern has already been discussed, my apologies.
My initial reaction is that with so many bonuses, there is an extremely high likelihood that players are going to start with a bunch of bonuses. Let's say I'm playing a standard six player game, so I start with 12 territories. There are dozens of combinations that could give me a big first move... why just having F, O, X and Alt gives me +5 to add to the 4 armies I have to drop. That's a big advantage to begin the game.
Also, I find the colors extremely hard to distinguish.
My initial reaction is that with so many bonuses, there is an extremely high likelihood that players are going to start with a bunch of bonuses. Let's say I'm playing a standard six player game, so I start with 12 territories. There are dozens of combinations that could give me a big first move... why just having F, O, X and Alt gives me +5 to add to the 4 armies I have to drop. That's a big advantage to begin the game.
Also, I find the colors extremely hard to distinguish.
Bonuses Updated
Green Keys get incremental bonuses for holding them as shown.
Function Keys get +1 per turn.
Escape gets -2 per turn
I have re-adjusted the Key Shortcut bonuses to be more reasonable (I hope) and be on an incremental scale, to overcome the ease of holding multiple with few keys. Also, I hope this map can act as an educational tool in my campaign against the evil Mouse!
Have changed the words to make them all map-specific rather than random. Bonuses are calculated as-per below. Please check and comment.
Word (unique letters) SHORTCUT LETTERS (Keys non-shortcut) Extra
Conquer Club (9 letters) CERL (5+2 non-shortcut) Needs Space and Shift/Caps
+2 bonus for also holding Conquer Key
QWERTY (6 letters) ER (4+1 non-shortcut) Needs Shift/Capslock
ASDF JKL; (8 letters) ADFL (4+1 non-shortcut) Needs Shift/Capslock
keyboard (8 letters) EAR (5 non-shortcut)
backspace (7 letters) ACE (4 non-shortcut)
shift (5 letters) (5 non-shortcut)
control (6 letters) CNRL (2 non-shortcut)
alternate (8 letters) ALERN (3 non-shortcut)
delete (4 letters) DEL (1 non-shortcut)
start (4 letters) AR (2 non-shortcut)
caps lock (7 letters) CAL (4 non-shortcut)
tab (3 letters) A (2 non-shortcut)
escape (5 letters) ECA (2 non-shortcut)
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Cherry pepsi?
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Previous versions had some impassables. Regardless of impassables, the fact that all keys on one hand can attack each other wouldn't change, unless people are drastically against that idea, but I thought/hoped people liked that idea. since the continents are not directly connected, but instead word/shortcut combo's, I thought the connections would actually improve gameplay.
Any impassables that were added were rather arbitrary, and didn't really contribute to gameplay. if you have any suggestions as where they might be added, logically, and how they would contribute to gameplay, please let me know
Any impassables that were added were rather arbitrary, and didn't really contribute to gameplay. if you have any suggestions as where they might be added, logically, and how they would contribute to gameplay, please let me know
Bump, need comment on where this needs to go from its current version?
I'm relatively happy with the bonus situation, although once I do up some XML and run a few simulations I'll be able to provide a few more insights into initial drop dynamics and gameplay.
On another note: You know what would be a really cool app? one that could simulate an entire game
or second to that, a test server where we could actually -play- games on maps at a certain stage in the process and see how the gameplay goes (or does this happen to forged maps?)
Input and comment please people. Please be constructive.
I'm relatively happy with the bonus situation, although once I do up some XML and run a few simulations I'll be able to provide a few more insights into initial drop dynamics and gameplay.
On another note: You know what would be a really cool app? one that could simulate an entire game
or second to that, a test server where we could actually -play- games on maps at a certain stage in the process and see how the gameplay goes (or does this happen to forged maps?)Input and comment please people. Please be constructive.
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whitestazn88
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i'm a fan of what you have so far.
considering i was one of the folks that pushed for all letters on one hand can attack each other, i still like that idea, especially as you said, the bonuses are more arbitrary than position.
i don't really like all the shortcut bonuses though, and i think its because i'm more of a 1v1 player. I just feel that a player could too easily start with a massive bonus.
this is also true of other maps though, so i'll let it go for now.
as for the colors... leave them as is, but maybe change the top part of the keyboard, like the area above the numbers and up. i don't particularly like the green with the circuitry. maybe you could go for the gray that's the rest of the background, and use paperclips or staples to show the connections. it would look more like a desk that way
considering i was one of the folks that pushed for all letters on one hand can attack each other, i still like that idea, especially as you said, the bonuses are more arbitrary than position.
i don't really like all the shortcut bonuses though, and i think its because i'm more of a 1v1 player. I just feel that a player could too easily start with a massive bonus.
this is also true of other maps though, so i'll let it go for now.
as for the colors... leave them as is, but maybe change the top part of the keyboard, like the area above the numbers and up. i don't particularly like the green with the circuitry. maybe you could go for the gray that's the rest of the background, and use paperclips or staples to show the connections. it would look more like a desk that way
love the QWERTY idea
I really like your idea, and you've obviously done lots of great, hard work on it.
I try to imagine what my first thought would be when I search for a map to start a new game. If I clicked on your map as is, I would haul ass to the next one. I like the keyboard set-up, but there is so much going on that I would be intimidated. Why? Because there are bonuses for a hundred different reasons and same color attackers and crazy colors coming from everywhere.
I understand that many players like more advanced maps with hard to achieve bonuses and non-traditional attack routes. However, to achieve mass appeal, something might have to give.
My suggestion, then, is to find a way to make it feel a little safer to attract beginning and middle level players. Lots of people have been saying things, though, without helpful ideas. So, here goes.
One thing you could do without sacrificing your creativity in game play is to remove some attack routes between the top row and main board.
Like this:
Esc to F1 and ~
F1 to Esc, 1, and F2
F2 to only F1 and F3
F3 to F2 and F4
F4 to F5 and 5
F5 to F4, F6, and 6
F6 to F5 and F7
F7 to F6 and F8
F8 to F7, F9, and 9
F9 to F8, F10, and 0
F10 to F9 and F11
F11 to F10 and F12
F12 to F11 and Back
Maybe this would be too much for you, but there might be a compromise in the middle somewhere. Good luck, and I'll check back in a few days.
Best,
Laci
I try to imagine what my first thought would be when I search for a map to start a new game. If I clicked on your map as is, I would haul ass to the next one. I like the keyboard set-up, but there is so much going on that I would be intimidated. Why? Because there are bonuses for a hundred different reasons and same color attackers and crazy colors coming from everywhere.
I understand that many players like more advanced maps with hard to achieve bonuses and non-traditional attack routes. However, to achieve mass appeal, something might have to give.
My suggestion, then, is to find a way to make it feel a little safer to attract beginning and middle level players. Lots of people have been saying things, though, without helpful ideas. So, here goes.
One thing you could do without sacrificing your creativity in game play is to remove some attack routes between the top row and main board.
Like this:
Esc to F1 and ~
F1 to Esc, 1, and F2
F2 to only F1 and F3
F3 to F2 and F4
F4 to F5 and 5
F5 to F4, F6, and 6
F6 to F5 and F7
F7 to F6 and F8
F8 to F7, F9, and 9
F9 to F8, F10, and 0
F10 to F9 and F11
F11 to F10 and F12
F12 to F11 and Back
Maybe this would be too much for you, but there might be a compromise in the middle somewhere. Good luck, and I'll check back in a few days.
Best,
Laci
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fumandomuerte
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I'm a few words fan.
The special combinations are enough with maybe some words like QWERTY, RISK, CONQUER, CLUB...
And like others say, too connections between the function Keys and the rest of the keyboard.
Since most of the bonuses are based on the fact of having the SHIFT/CAPS/CTRL/ALT and the START keys, maybe adding some to the F keys would be nice.
The graphics need to be worket a lot.
I LOVE THIS MAP, KEEP THIS MOVING ON.
The special combinations are enough with maybe some words like QWERTY, RISK, CONQUER, CLUB...
And like others say, too connections between the function Keys and the rest of the keyboard.
Since most of the bonuses are based on the fact of having the SHIFT/CAPS/CTRL/ALT and the START keys, maybe adding some to the F keys would be nice.
The graphics need to be worket a lot.
I LOVE THIS MAP, KEEP THIS MOVING ON.
Specific question: are there any starting neutrals? First post doesn't mention any, but with all of the territory bonuses it might be helpful to avoid lucky starts.
General concern: the poll put you just above 50% approval... 21 people like it, 16 people either want you to scrap it or completely redo it. And the fact that you had to bump your own post doesn't suggest it has a ton of support.
Of course, by saying this I may be setting off a wave of support and interest, which is fine by me!
General concern: the poll put you just above 50% approval... 21 people like it, 16 people either want you to scrap it or completely redo it. And the fact that you had to bump your own post doesn't suggest it has a ton of support.
Of course, by saying this I may be setting off a wave of support and interest, which is fine by me!
