this is beggars belief....

[brooksieb]

Of course it's not applicable to everybody. But thats why I like the Freedom of Choice. You can choose what you do and don't want to pay for. Instead of just being taxed at a crazy rate and given a piece of shit healthcare....

I like to CHOOSE what I want...instead of it being forced upon me.

what u sed right there was absolutely true however, what if i had to have a op that costed loads of money and i cudnt afford it, so i dont know for sure if i wud like tht

[got tonkaed]

Of course it's not applicable to everybody. But thats why I like the Freedom of Choice. You can choose what you do and don't want to pay for. Instead of just being taxed at a crazy rate and given a piece of shit healthcare....

I like to CHOOSE what I want...instead of it being forced upon me.

dont get me wrong, as a single individual there are alot of attractive alternatives to an idea of a national healthcare system, especially as a healthy individual.

However, you dont solve social problems by thinking about self interest. As much as napoelon likes to think it would solve everything, any evidence of praxis we have which gives insight seems to suggest it does not.

By blaming the victims so to speak for not getting healthcare, you are simply assuming everyone would have the same access to healthcare that you as a single indivdual would have. Certainly there are likely some people who do fail to make the most of their oppertunities, however it seems much more likely most people are not.

In a system where at the end of the day the goal is to make money, you are going to have some difficulties with social aspects of those who cannot pay. As a result we have a lot of people who are falling through the gaps. Your type of rationale rather contributes to this dilemma, instead working toward solving it.

[Quinton]

Of course it's not applicable to everybody. But thats why I like the Freedom of Choice. You can choose what you do and don't want to pay for. Instead of just being taxed at a crazy rate and given a piece of shit healthcare....

I like to CHOOSE what I want...instead of it being forced upon me.

Excellent post

Much agreed.

After all, wouldnt that be a totalitarian state idea?

[bedub1]

Of course it's not applicable to everybody. But thats why I like the Freedom of Choice. You can choose what you do and don't want to pay for. Instead of just being taxed at a crazy rate and given a piece of shit healthcare....

I like to CHOOSE what I want...instead of it being forced upon me.

what u sed right there was absolutely true however, what if i had to have a op that costed loads of money and i cudnt afford it, so i dont know for sure if i wud like tht

Then apparently you made the WRONG choice...and should suffer from it, and learn from it. Otherwise you might be dead.....which I'm actually okay with. Survival of the fittest baby!

[bradleybadly]

well to contrast it....in america, you are likely to get fantastic care if you have a quality insurance provider...but for millions of people, citizens and aliens, you are just as likely to not be able to get some of the care that you might hope for or expect to be able to get.

Yeah, and forcing people to be covered under a government health insurance program guarantees that they'll receive good health care, right? Don't worry, if you Democrats have your way then we'll all be forced to stand in line for 2 weeks to get a free government band-aid. But at least it's free. yipee!!

[got tonkaed]

well to contrast it....in america, you are likely to get fantastic care if you have a quality insurance provider...but for millions of people, citizens and aliens, you are just as likely to not be able to get some of the care that you might hope for or expect to be able to get.

Yeah, and forcing people to be covered under a government health insurance program guarantees that they'll receive good health care, right? Don't worry, if you Democrats have your way then we'll all be forced to stand in line for 2 weeks to get a free government band-aid. But at least it's free. yipee!!

that does seem like a pretty accurate representation of what would likely happen....

democrats get something put through and then all of the sudden all of the strong willed, take care of your own business, republicans and libertarians would forget how to put band-aids on.

Your right, national healthcare would make our country so stupid, we would have no chance to be economically competitive.

Free market solutions ftw!

[Neoteny]

well to contrast it....in america, you are likely to get fantastic care if you have a quality insurance provider...but for millions of people, citizens and aliens, you are just as likely to not be able to get some of the care that you might hope for or expect to be able to get.

Yeah, and forcing people to be covered under a government health insurance program guarantees that they'll receive good health care, right? Don't worry, if you Democrats have your way then we'll all be forced to stand in line for 2 weeks to get a free government band-aid. But at least it's free. yipee!!

that does seem like a pretty accurate representation of what would likely happen....

democrats get something put through and then all of the sudden all of the strong willed, take care of your own business, republicans and libertarians would forget how to put band-aids on.

Your right, national healthcare would make our country so stupid, we would have no chance to be economically competitive.

Free market solutions ftw!

Whoa tonk! Somebody get him his lithium!

[Frigidus]

Of course it's not applicable to everybody. But thats why I like the Freedom of Choice. You can choose what you do and don't want to pay for. Instead of just being taxed at a crazy rate and given a piece of shit healthcare....

I like to CHOOSE what I want...instead of it being forced upon me.

what u sed right there was absolutely true however, what if i had to have a op that costed loads of money and i cudnt afford it, so i dont know for sure if i wud like tht

Then apparently you made the WRONG choice...and should suffer from it, and learn from it. Otherwise you might be dead.....which I'm actually okay with. Survival of the fittest baby!

It's hard to argue against this just because there are so many places to start from. You made the wrong choice if you're poor? Really?

[Guiscard]

In approximately one minute of googling I have found the answer to his little diatribe anyway.

Because of the very very low rate of TB among the vast majority of the population, the Government have withdrawn TB vaccination from all schools. Now it is a targeted vaccine administered free on the NHS to all in high-risk areas. The immigrant population, many of whom will come from countries with lower healthcare in general, present a much higher TB risk and so immunisation is wide scale for them. You can't just walk into your local GP any more and demand a TB vaccination for free, but if you live in an area where you might be at risk it is still free. Makes sense to me.

i live in a high risk area but im a native yet i still have to pay for my injection

And the last outbreak of TB in your area was?

[Neoteny]

Of course it's not applicable to everybody. But thats why I like the Freedom of Choice. You can choose what you do and don't want to pay for. Instead of just being taxed at a crazy rate and given a piece of shit healthcare....

I like to CHOOSE what I want...instead of it being forced upon me.

what u sed right there was absolutely true however, what if i had to have a op that costed loads of money and i cudnt afford it, so i dont know for sure if i wud like tht

Then apparently you made the WRONG choice...and should suffer from it, and learn from it. Otherwise you might be dead.....which I'm actually okay with. Survival of the fittest baby!

It's hard to argue against this just because there are so many places to start from. You made the wrong choice if you're poor? Really?

Social Darwinism is not cool.

[Grooveman2007]

go step on a rusty nail....won't that get ya a TB shot? or am I thinking of something else.....

That's tetnus.

[brooksieb]

In approximately one minute of googling I have found the answer to his little diatribe anyway.

Because of the very very low rate of TB among the vast majority of the population, the Government have withdrawn TB vaccination from all schools. Now it is a targeted vaccine administered free on the NHS to all in high-risk areas. The immigrant population, many of whom will come from countries with lower healthcare in general, present a much higher TB risk and so immunisation is wide scale for them. You can't just walk into your local GP any more and demand a TB vaccination for free, but if you live in an area where you might be at risk it is still free. Makes sense to me.

i live in a high risk area but im a native yet i still have to pay for my injection

And the last outbreak of TB in your area was?

a few months ago actually it was in the local papers

[Quinton]

And the last outbreak of TB in your area was?

hmmm...when these "immigrants" that you love so dearly came in....according to your own post?

[bedub1]

go step on a rusty nail....won't that get ya a TB shot? or am I thinking of something else.....

That's tetnus.

Thats right...i knew I was thinking of something else.

[Neutrino]

And the last outbreak of TB in your area was?

hmmm...when these "immigrants" that you love so dearly came in....according to your own post?

One would presume that a very small minority of all immigrants actually has Tuberculosis and therefore a few hundred immigrants wouldn't put anyone at risk.

[Grooveman2007]

Free vacinations to immigrants who might be infected with any serious disease is a pretty smart preventative measure.

[Neoteny]

Free vacinations to immigrants who might be infected with any serious disease is a pretty smart preventative measure.

I believe the main idea is to immunize the immigrants who aren't infected, that way when they come into contact with the infected ones, they don't catch and transmit the disease to other immigrants, and finally to natives. Now, I've only had one semester of immunology, so I'm no expert, but that sounds like a fairly decent preventative measure to me.

[Iliad]

Of course it's not applicable to everybody. But thats why I like the Freedom of Choice. You can choose what you do and don't want to pay for. Instead of just being taxed at a crazy rate and given a piece of shit healthcare....

I like to CHOOSE what I want...instead of it being forced upon me.

what u sed right there was absolutely true however, what if i had to have a op that costed loads of money and i cudnt afford it, so i dont know for sure if i wud like tht

Then apparently you made the WRONG choice...and should suffer from it, and learn from it. Otherwise you might be dead.....which I'm actually okay with. Survival of the fittest baby!

but we don't live in the stone age where it was simply try to survive we live in an age where we are civilised(at least I am) and when social darwinism is not in place. Because using your logic we should let all those people in Africa suffering because of famines, war, etc.

[Snorri1234]

well to contrast it....in america, you are likely to get fantastic care if you have a quality insurance provider...but for millions of people, citizens and aliens, you are just as likely to not be able to get some of the care that you might hope for or expect to be able to get.

Yeah, and forcing people to be covered under a government health insurance program guarantees that they'll receive good health care, right? Don't worry, if you Democrats have your way then we'll all be forced to stand in line for 2 weeks to get a free government band-aid. But at least it's free. yipee!!

Yes! Let's all forget about the fact most of Europe has it and they haven't collapsed!

[Guiscard]

Yes! Let's all forget about the fact most of Europe has it and they haven't collapsed!

Indeed. I was ill a couple of weeks ago, I went down to my doctors during drop-in surgery, waited twenty minutes, got seen, got a prescription, picked that up... Was home by lunchtime. The NHS really is falling a part at the seams.

[brooksieb]

the NHS just needs to stop caring for all these households that dont pay taxes and are on the doll simple, no taxes, no NHS

(unless if there disabled or elderly, that's another story)

[Guiscard]

the NHS just needs to stop caring for all these households that dont pay taxes and are on the doll simple, no taxes, no NHS

(unless if there disabled or elderly, that's another story)

Yep. Because free healthcare for all, regardless of social or economic status, is a bad thing. Certainly not one of the core principles of modern Britain or anything.

What about the billionaire bankers and non-doms who use places like Monaco or the Caymen Islands as a tax haven? Should we deny them healthcare?

Brooksieb, I strongly advise you to tone down the political posts. At the moment you're coming accross as a second rate Norse. All the vitriol, all the Daily Mail white middle class fundementalism, but none of the wit.