Multiculturalism

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

Do you think multiculturalism works?

I used to think so until yesterday when i decided to look up what happened in the former Yougoslavia after reading what some ppl said in the flame forum. Basically what happened was Yougoslavia had been multicultural since the end of world war 2, and the populations of the people had mixed to an extent (they started living in the same area). But then in the early 1990's they started killing each other and ethnically cleansing the minority races.

Then i read about the Cyprus issue. Turks and Greeks had been living together for 400 years peacefully mixed all over the island, then they got angry at each other and the turkish army invaded, took just under half the island and moved all the greeks to the other half of the island and got the turks to come to the new area.

These are only 2 of the many examples (Jews in Germany, Armenians in Turkey) of failures in multiculturalism throughout history. I hope we can stay multicultural without killing each other. What do you all think about multiculturalism?

spring1 · Post by **spring1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:50 am

Seems to be working in the USA...not that it's not without it's problems, but...

Can it work the world over? I don't know. Do people in general have the ability to stop being ignorant? Not a chance in hell.

owheelj · Post by **owheelj** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:52 am

Those examples you give aren't really multiculturalism (at least in my opinion) - they're biculturalism - which is significantly different. I think when you truely have a mix of cultures you don't have divisions at all. In Australia when we've had racial tensions it has always been between two cultural divisions and not more than 2.

I also think that cultural divisions that are also along national lines seem to often cause significant tensions.

For example - India and Pakistan, China and Japan, USA and Mexico (to a lesser extent than the others) etc.

Caleb the Cruel · Post by **Caleb the Cruel** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:06 pm

i think that it's religion, not race, that tears people apart more than any other factor
like in your examples of yugoslavia there were muslims and christians, right?
in cyprus the greeks were probably mostly christian and the turks were mostly islmaic
india and pakistan are hindu and islamic
china is mostly aethiest and mahayana buddhist and many of the japanese are shintoists and japanese buddhist
the tensions between the untied states and mexico are not large at all
plus the u.s government likes the new president of mexico...

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:23 pm

The Croats and the Bosnian Serbs also fought each other in Yugoslavia - they're definitely all Christians - true, some Croats are Catholic, but others are Orthodox.

I don't think you can ask the general question whether multiculturalism works, and then pick out some of the worse examples, and ignore all the large majority of places where it generally goes fine - places you never hear about because it never makes the news.

w3a2 · Post by **w3a2** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:55 pm

i love it how people blame religion when often the biggest perpetrators in most instances are not religious at all but using it as a guise.

hendy · Post by **hendy** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:29 pm

its working well for Canada aswell I think it is important

P Gizzle · Post by **P Gizzle** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:40 pm

it seems to work for the us. i mean there are hate crimes, but so far no genocide

Cheesemore · Post by **Cheesemore** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:35 pm

Multiculturism can work, however it won't until people stop being ignorant and stupid (which may never happen)

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:18 pm

Well if its religious, i think our problems might be over soon, as we get more educated we seem to be getting more athiest.

Nobunaga · Post by **Nobunaga** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:04 am

... What's a "hate crime"? I mean, I hate Budweiser. Is that a crime?

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:16 am

Nobunaga wrote:... What's a "hate crime"? I mean, I hate Budweiser. Is that a crime?

To simplify it for you, white guy kills a random brown guy just for having different pigmants. Islamic extreamist goes to a public place and blows up.

It doesn't have to be serious physical violence in North America.

Distributing or teaching false hoods against a group counts, ie. being a school teacher and giving out pamphlets and lectures that the houlocaust never occured.

Nobunaga · Post by **Nobunaga** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:21 am

... Sounds very American.

... So I'm alright then. Nobody's going to stop me at immigration when next I go to the US, and cuff me for hating the "King of Beers".

... Works for me.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:39 am

That's true it's a free country attached to another free country and a poor country.

You can even hate people for what ever reason, it's only when you try to convert others to that hatred or act out physically that it constitutes a crime.

Enjoy your visit.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:59 am

America isn't really multicultural. It's a melting pot, where new immigrants are allowed to have their own cultures while at the same time have to adopt American 'culture' to a certain extent as well. It's semi-multiculturalism.

And yes, Nobunaga, it is very American. I'm torn on the issue of hate crime laws. On the one hand no murder should be treated differently than another simply based on the race, orientation, gender, etc. of those involved, on the other hand when someone ties a person up to a tree and makes him recite "Hail Mary"s while they pelt him with rocks and bricks simply because he's gay, that person should get a stiffer sentence than someone who killed another person in a robbery.

It's really a wiggly issue, and it's hard to come to a consensus about it.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:04 am

vtmarik wrote: when someone ties a person up to a tree and makes him recite "Hail Mary"s while they pelt him with rocks and bricks simply because he's gay.

Wait is that one a hate crime, kind of depends on the state, no?

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:08 am

2dimes wrote:Wait is that one a hate crime, kind of depends on the state, no?

Under Federal law, that constitutes a Hate crime. And the feds trump state.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:10 am

What about freedom of shoving religion down peoples throat?

Your constitution seems to be weakening.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:12 am

Well, as Bush and his administration have said, it's ok to bend the rules of the constitution to catch the evildoers.

And really, if it takes bricks and rocks to convert someone to Catholicism then they might need to adjust the sales pitch. Perhaps give away free toasters to converts.

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:18 am

Perhaps I shouldn't speak too much about things I don't understand because I must be wrong but... they're really doing the guy a favour.

A huge part of catholisism is cleansing through suffering, why wait until the guy understands and volunteers to get started.

So it's not so much trying to convince the guy through violence as accepting him into the fold.