Should Whale Hunting Be Banned?

[Dancing Mustard]

Both whaling and seal-clubbing should be actively encouraged by government subsidies, they both represent sustainable and humane food/energy sources that we have a duty to provide for the next generation.

[Gypsys Kiss]

Where do you live DM. I need some practice with my club

[Dancing Mustard]

*Sigh*

Reduced to trite threats so soon? I should have expected as much from the anti-future lobby...

[size=0]Yes, if you can't tell already. I'm winding people up and I don't believe a word of what I'm saying here...[/size]

[Gypsys Kiss]

You've been threatened with a club often then have you?

[Dancing Mustard]

People frequently offer to take me clubbing, but I'm usually too tired to bother.

[ignotus]

People frequently offer to take me clubbing, but I'm usually too tired to bother.

And they call me boring.

[Wiivja]

Whale meat aint even good

[ignotus]

Whale meat aint even good

Nah, it's all in spices.

[DaGip]

if nature can control whale population then surely she should start controlling our population as we start to get too big and killing her?

If only...its not like nature is a thing with a conscious that can make decisions through its many animals. It's a disorganized system that falls apart with the slightest fiddling.

Bullocks! Nature is a system...like your body is a system, an organism. When parasites become overpopulated beyond a certain threshold, the organism reacts. As humans we get fevers, shivers, runny noses, sneezes, wheezes, coughs, vomit, etc...the Earth is no different as an organism. It can sense when things are out of balance and it will do things to try and curb the parasitic population. When the earth sneezes, however, we get tsunamis and the like.

[spurgistan]

if nature can control whale population then surely she should start controlling our population as we start to get too big and killing her?

If only...its not like nature is a thing with a conscious that can make decisions through its many animals. It's a disorganized system that falls apart with the slightest fiddling.

Bullocks! Nature is a system...like your body is a system, an organism. When parasites become overpopulated beyond a certain threshold, the organism reacts. As humans we get fevers, shivers, runny noses, sneezes, wheezes, coughs, vomit, etc...the Earth is no different as an organism. It can sense when things are out of balance and it will do things to try and curb the parasitic population. When the earth sneezes, however, we get tsunamis and the like.

So your saying that we should continue to look the other way while whalers openly flout international mandates banning commercial whaling... because the whales might someday overthrow the oppressive humans?

[Dancing Mustard]

So your saying that we should continue to look the other way while whalers openly flout international mandates banning commercial whaling... because the whales might someday overthrow the oppressive humans?

No.

It's because whales represent the best source of sustainable meat available to man. Killing anything else just doesn't make mathmatical or ecological sense.

[ignotus]

[DaGip]

if nature can control whale population then surely she should start controlling our population as we start to get too big and killing her?

If only...its not like nature is a thing with a conscious that can make decisions through its many animals. It's a disorganized system that falls apart with the slightest fiddling.

Bullocks! Nature is a system...like your body is a system, an organism. When parasites become overpopulated beyond a certain threshold, the organism reacts. As humans we get fevers, shivers, runny noses, sneezes, wheezes, coughs, vomit, etc...the Earth is no different as an organism. It can sense when things are out of balance and it will do things to try and curb the parasitic population. When the earth sneezes, however, we get tsunamis and the like.

So your saying that we should continue to look the other way while whalers openly flout international mandates banning commercial whaling... because the whales might someday overthrow the oppressive humans?

I am coming back as a Humpback whale when I die...I plan on leading an all out assault on all Navy vessels world wide! All nuclear submarines will be at our mercy...prepare yourselves for the first interspecies war!!!!

[Snorri1234]

if nature can control whale population then surely she should start controlling our population as we start to get too big and killing her?

If only...its not like nature is a thing with a conscious that can make decisions through its many animals. It's a disorganized system that falls apart with the slightest fiddling.

Bullocks! Nature is a system...like your body is a system, an organism. When parasites become overpopulated beyond a certain threshold, the organism reacts. As humans we get fevers, shivers, runny noses, sneezes, wheezes, coughs, vomit, etc...the Earth is no different as an organism. It can sense when things are out of balance and it will do things to try and curb the parasitic population. When the earth sneezes, however, we get tsunamis and the like.

Problem is that some parasites can easily kill an organism. The organism can try getting rid of it, but it won't succeed.

[lozzini]

last time the hman population got too big we had an ice age... perhaps its starting again and as we try and prevent the ice age we destroy our population in the fight... rather than just losing some of it too the ice age

[Symmetry]

Banned? No.

Most Japanese people I know aren't really concerned either way about whaling and whale meat. They'll eat it if it's put in front of them at a dinner, but they won't really choose it.

They don't really appreciate being told what they can and can't eat though. Especially from Americans (what they say- not my opinion). They definitely view it as an erosion of culture. Japan, historically, never really had a problem with whaling. Whales were a source of food and oil. Maintaining whaling means keeping certain areas of Japan alive, much like farming subsidies in the US and the EU. Stop it, and some of the oldest parts of Japan will die, even if it means little sense economically.

Quite frankly, groups like greenpeace and sea shepherd are seen as pirates and half-assed imperialists. Maybe if either group managed to have someone with a decent knowledge of Japan on board they might seem otherwise. Unfortunately they still seem to want confrontation. Politics in Asia generally, and Japan especially, doesn't work that way. They come across as kids having a tantrum.

There's nothing more counter-productive to ending whaling in Japan than the self-righteousness of another country telling them that they are evil and wrong. It may be a great way to get votes in your home country (Kevin Rudd), but it's really naive foreign policy.

They still remember the black ships arriving and seeking whaling outposts for American fleets. They still remember the US encouraging whaling after WWII to counter food shortages. They still remember that it wasn't their fleets that hunted whales to near extinction. So, they still think that this is just another whim of Western powers.

Fact is, Japanese people eat whale, but that it's not particularly popular. It would die out as an industry and even as a "scientific cause for research" if it wasn't the target of so much random vitriol. Just let it die out naturally, as it was before the kids managed to find a boat and a TV camera.

[Neoteny]

Banned? No.

Most Japanese people I know aren't really concerned either way about whaling and whale meat. They'll eat it if it's put in front of them at a dinner, but they won't really choose it.

They don't really appreciate being told what they can and can't eat though. Especially from Americans (what they say- not my opinion). They definitely view it as an erosion of culture. Japan, historically, never really had a problem with whaling. Whales were a source of food and oil. Maintaining whaling means keeping certain areas of Japan alive, much like farming subsidies in the US and the EU. Stop it, and some of the oldest parts of Japan will die, even if it means little sense economically.

Quite frankly, groups like greenpeace and sea shepherd are seen as pirates and half-assed imperialists. Maybe if either group managed to have someone with a decent knowledge of Japan on board they might seem otherwise. Unfortunately they still seem to want confrontation. Politics in Asia generally, and Japan especially, doesn't work that way. They come across as kids having a tantrum.

There's nothing more counter-productive to ending whaling in Japan than the self-righteousness of another country telling them that they are evil and wrong. It may be a great way to get votes in your home country (Kevin Rudd), but it's really naive foreign policy.

They still remember the black ships arriving and seeking whaling outposts for American fleets. They still remember the US encouraging whaling after WWII to counter food shortages. They still remember that it wasn't their fleets that hunted whales to near extinction. So, they still think that this is just another whim of Western powers.

Fact is, Japanese people eat whale, but that it's not particularly popular. It would die out as an industry and even as a "scientific cause for research" if it wasn't the target of so much random vitriol. Just let it die out naturally, as it was before the kids managed to find a boat and a TV camera.

Ah, western hard-headedness meets eastern hard-headedness... So the reason the industry is still going strong is because of a dislike of the industry? "Random vitriol?" I think you gave a pretty good discussion until that point. I sincerely doubt the continued whaling is reactionary western-bashing (that might be the reason people are spouting, but it holds as much water as a paper bag, I suspect (and sincerely hope) there is a deeper, more relevant reason), and if it is, then it needs to be stopped by the Japanese government, if noone else. To say that we need to respect cultural or societal flaws at the expense of possible destruction of environment is ridiculous. We're not just talking about current populations when we talk about ecology. Fucking up an ecosystem now is destructive to our children, grandchildren etc.

I understand the Japanese perspective of culture is one that is central to their worldview, but my worldview, and that of many individuals currently, is that we can't fully know the impact of humans on the environment, but history leads us to believe that most of our impact has been negative with respect to other species. We are seeing signs that we have already fucked things up bad enough as is, and any reckless abuse of the any ecological industry must be curbed, as, though we don't know what might happen, chances are it will be bad. And who's to say which worldview is better, or should be imposed on? They are imposing on mine, if I am not imposing on theirs (though I'm not, see below).

Economically, I don't have that much pity for Japan. If this were Ethiopia we were talking about, I would say they need the whales, but it's not. The Japanese are fully capable of maintaining the weaker portions of their economy. If people don't care about whale either way, then it obviously won't be contributing that much anyway. I don't think America has any right to legislate the hunting of whales for Japan. But I think it is irresponsible, and stupid, for the Japanese government not to.

[jiminski]

Krill have rights too!

[lozzini]

any last votes as this is the last time i look at this before i write my report

[InkL0sed]

any last votes as this is the last time i look at this before i write my report

See Symmetry's argument for the only slightly reasonable argument to not banning whale hunting.

And, of course, see Neoteny's response. I think they both made a lot of very good points.

[unriggable]

if nature can control whale population then surely she should start controlling our population as we start to get too big and killing her?

If only...its not like nature is a thing with a conscious that can make decisions through its many animals. It's a disorganized system that falls apart with the slightest fiddling.

Bullocks! Nature is a system...like your body is a system, an organism. When parasites become overpopulated beyond a certain threshold, the organism reacts. As humans we get fevers, shivers, runny noses, sneezes, wheezes, coughs, vomit, etc...the Earth is no different as an organism. It can sense when things are out of balance and it will do things to try and curb the parasitic population. When the earth sneezes, however, we get tsunamis and the like.

That is the biggest load of shit I've heard in a while. An organism grows, ages and dies as a whole. The earth is not an organism. Ecosystems aren't even comparable to organisms. If an ecosystem was as hardy as an human body it would be able to cure itself quickly. But unfortunately that's not the case. Thousands of species have gone extinct since we've began meddling with the natural world, it shows the fragile balance between life and death in these animal's surroundings.

[Napoleon Ier]

PAVE THE EARTH WITH CONCRETE FIRST!!







We'll do the other planets later...

[Nobunaga]

... I had whale a few times. It really wasn't that good. It wasn't bad... but give me a slab of salmon any day of the week over whale meat. It was served as school lunch a few times.

...

[Neutrino]

PAVE THE EARTH WITH CONCRETE FIRST!!







We'll do the other planets later...

Actually, paving large areas with bitumen will go a long way towards stopping Global Warming...

[bloknayrb]

Star Trek IV. Watch it.