Classic Question

D.IsleRealBrown · Post by **D.IsleRealBrown** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:45 pm

Please explain your vote.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:53 pm

no.... very easy to take and defend.

4 U 2 NV · Post by **4 U 2 NV** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:00 am

wicked wrote:no.... very easy to take and defend.

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:32 am

4 U 2 NV wrote:
wicked wrote:no.... very easy to take and defend.

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:41 am

No, i think that Africa is pushing for a 4, 3 border continents and countries and a total of 6 countries.

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:05 am

Yes and africa 4.

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:02 am

I disagree.

S. America is in a very strong position for easy expansion, particularly up into N. America. The S/N America combo is the most powerful in the game, as you get 7 bonus armies and a couple more for territory with just three points to defend from. It also is difficult to take once it's been held for a while, as Brazil and Venezuela border each other. If one is taken then the armies in the other country are freed to retaliate. The continent is also strengthened, on the whole, rather than weakened by a player holding Africa. Africa is a tough country to defend. If an Africa player was to take S. America they would have to amass enough players on N. Africa to take both Brazil and Venezuela, hold Venezuela, and still keep enough on N. Africa to defend it. A S. America player would see such a move coming from a mile off. S. America enjoys probably the superior position in the game, and would be a total monster if provided with an additional bonus.

Africa is a difficult call. It's certainly the worst continent on the board, giving a player very few options for easy expansion and forcing them to defend on several strong fronts. Africa really should be used as a launching pad into Europe or Australia (I would always want an Australasia/Africa combo over an Africa/S. America combo.) I think the call was made to weaken rather than strengthen it... 4 seems like too much to me, too easy to do hold off S. America and do stuff in Europe at the same time.

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:09 am

ZawBanjito wrote:
Africa is a difficult call. It's certainly the worst continent on the board, giving a player very few options for easy expansion and forcing them to defend on several strong fronts. Africa really should be used as a launching pad into Europe or Australia (I would always want an Australasia/Africa combo over an Africa/S. America combo.) I think the call was made to weaken rather than strengthen it... 4 seems like too much to me, too easy to do hold off S. America and do stuff in Europe at the same time.

Then when you get africa europe its 9..

None of this even matters in escalating cards.

gav88111 · Post by **gav88111** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:26 am

Everyone has made a valid argument as to why keep it at two. Personally,I just find it much more difficult to defend in a game with a full house of players, what with the two borders as opposed to Australia's one.
As well, It's "not" risk so why not change it to 3 and Africa to 4? We'll all have the same learning curve and adjustment period.
How 'bout lowering Australia to 1 instead? That would really shake things up!

onbekende · Post by **onbekende** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:35 am

AK_iceman wrote:
4 U 2 NV wrote:
wicked wrote:no.... very easy to take and defend.

Master Bush · Post by **Master Bush** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:47 am

Then why not only give Oceania 1 bonus then. Cause S. America is harder to hold then Oceania, so they shouldn't give the same bonus.

Ishiro · Post by **Ishiro** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:40 am

Are you really having to defend S.America that often? I find in most games, like Oceania, if you hold it people spend their time worrying about other things since its only 2 armies.

Pedronicus · Post by **Pedronicus** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:56 am

I've never played the Classic map before.

is it any good?

Ronaldinho · Post by **Ronaldinho** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:56 am

wicked wrote:no.... very easy to take and defend.

D.IsleRealBrown · Post by **D.IsleRealBrown** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:57 am

Master Bush wrote:Then why not only give Oceania 1 bonus then. Cause S. America is harder to hold then Oceania, so they shouldn't give the same bonus.

Ty, Sir Bush.

Oceania and S. America should NOT have the same bonus.

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:00 am

I feel like a goofbagger for taking this question seriously.

Australia vs. S. America... Australia receives two armies because it's position blows. It's got the worst position on the board (although not the most difficult to play, certainly.) A player holding Australia has very limited options. They can expand slowly to try and take and hold Asia, but this involves sending large armies comparatively long distances (Kamchatka especially) while holding off other players who have certainly secured their own continents by this time. In an adjacent fort game they are also obliged to hold troops back from this advance to keep the continent secure. Or, they can use the fact that Australia is just as miserable to take as to hold to try and capture an unconnected continent. The upside is that you're working with more troops than you would without a continent, the downside is that you're working uphill against players with much better continents and if you do get one now you're defending an awful lot of borders and pulling off weird, complex strategic pulls. By far the best move to pull with Australia is the turtle tactic, which involves nothing more complex than slowly slowly slowly building up, while everyone else squanders their strength fighting over borders. Then a snap expansion suddenly shifts the tide. Often I've seen a player take over the entire rest of the board except that one continent and lose the game from thereon because they didn't save enough guys for it. I hate the turtling, got no patience for it. I'd rather have any other continent, dammit. Any other one. Even Africa. There's so much you can do with Africa. Interesting things. Creative things. With Australia it's just a mechanic grind. Goddamn you Australia and all your crap.

Anyway, because all these tactics involve long term and often long distance strategizing, Australia needs the extra army to enable it to do anything at all. With just one bonus army it'd been a neutered sad sack continent that anyone with lucky cards and a half-portion of patience could wander into.

D.IsleRealBrown · Post by **D.IsleRealBrown** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:03 am

I'm sorry, but that's absurd.

It's the only continent you can defend from one position. No other map has that.

ZawBanjito · Post by **ZawBanjito** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:09 am

You read the first line and just gave up, didn't you? Sigh... I am a goofbagger.

Phobia · Post by **Phobia** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:10 am

i got as far as line 4!!

D.IsleRealBrown · Post by **D.IsleRealBrown** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:27 am

ZawBanjito wrote:You read the first line and just gave up, didn't you? Sigh... I am a goofbagger.

Ok, I read it all, my retort....

That's even more absurd, Oceania should get the extra bonus?

What are you smokin, and give me some.

If anything S.America should have a country added to it and get a bonus of 3.

Which country you ask, I don't know....Chile seems pretty obvious.

Map

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:19 am

Maybe Bolivia and paraguay combined. Chile is to thin.

D.IsleRealBrown · Post by **D.IsleRealBrown** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:35 am

It doesn't have to be exact, in fact it isn't now.

Robinette · Post by **Robinette** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:09 pm

South America:

wicked wrote:no.... very easy to take and defend.

Australia:

D.IsleRealBrown wrote:It's the only continent you can defend from one position. No other map has that.

ZawBanjito wrote:Australia receives two armies because it's position blows. It's got the worst position on the board

Africa:

ZawBanjito wrote:Africa is a difficult call.... 4 seems like too much to me.

My conclusion: Just leave it like it is... after all, it is the CLASSIC map.
.

zarvinny · Post by **zarvinny** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:10 pm

here is what somebody suggested somewhere on Conquer Club and it is very interesting suggestion:

make the S.A. = Australia bridge, connecting Argentina to Eastern Australia, keeping Ausie bonus at 2 (however its position gets better), and raising S.A's bonus to 3

BigG52989 · Post by **BigG52989** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:10 pm

put another country in SA and make it 3, but if you make it 3 that is clearly unfair to africa, which is in the center of the map with 3 attack point. So africa goes to 4.

Classic Question

Should South American have a bonus of 3?

Classic Question