Dust Bowl [Quenched]

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:47 am

yeti_c wrote:OK - I'd missed a few posts - I've just read Oaktowns... and agree with him really...

So I can understand either argument - RJ has chosen one - lets stay with that.

C.

oaktown is actually mistaken in that he thinks his figures match what rj has them at - this is not the case - rj has kansas as a +3 whereas oaktown came up with a +4 for it - actually that one change would make a big difference to make it fairer. I have been convinced on the merits of the other bonuses.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:53 am

rebelman wrote:
yeti_c wrote:OK - I'd missed a few posts - I've just read Oaktowns... and agree with him really...

So I can understand either argument - RJ has chosen one - lets stay with that.

C.
oaktown is actually mistaken in that he thinks his figures match what rj has them at - this is not the case - rj has kansas as a +3 whereas oaktown came up with a +4 for it - actually that one change would make a big difference to make it fairer. I have been convinced on the merits of the other bonuses.

OK then - that sounds fair... apologies for missing that too!

C.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:27 am

rebelman wrote:actually that one change would make a big difference to make it fairer. I have been convinced on the merits of the other bonuses.

I'll make this change (Kansas +4), But I would also prefer to put up a new poll and recruit some people via chat or general discussion to come take a look.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:29 am

RjBeals wrote:
rebelman wrote:actually that one change would make a big difference to make it fairer. I have been convinced on the merits of the other bonuses.
I'll make this change (Kansas +4), But I would also prefer to put up a new poll and recruit some people via chat or general discussion to come take a look.

Cool - don't forget the XML!

C.

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:29 am

RjBeals wrote:
rebelman wrote:actually that one change would make a big difference to make it fairer. I have been convinced on the merits of the other bonuses.
I'll make this change (Kansas +4), But I would also prefer to put up a new poll and recruit some people via chat or general discussion to come take a look.

MrBenn · Post by **MrBenn** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:51 am

I preferred Kansas at +3. It is easier to hold than the other +4 areas, as outside the drought area you can amass an army in Wichita. The other areas don't have this opportunity/option, and are therefore harder to defend.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:16 pm

Okay - I've thought more about the bonus structures, and I'm okay with keeping Kansas at a +4. The only thing else that I've adjusted is the drought regions color. Previously, it was more of a gray color. Now It's just a darker blend of the underlying color. The above animated gif switches back & forth between the two. I've got both large & small maps with both versions. I'll post army maps when we can agree on the drought colors.

I kinda like the new version a little better. The more I look at the previous version, the more I think the gray color looks a little too different and sticks out too much.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:53 pm

(Keep up the animated gifs...they really are the best for comparing images. More cartographers should do them!)

--Andy

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:10 pm

what did you vote for andy?

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:11 pm

rj you are a genius and this map looks fantastic (it already did) but i think the latest two changes add to its overall quality both in gameplay and appearance - ie upping Kansas to 4 and the revised colour in the drought region.

Can't wait to play it

PS agree totally with Andy animation should become the norm. for map makers showing changes for a lay person like me it makes it very easy to compare and contrast.

Edit: I voted for the new more yellowy colours (no surprise there really)

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:14 pm

RjBeals wrote:what did you vote for andy?

I voted for the previous version, for the reasons stated in the poll.

--Andy

pepperonibread · Post by **pepperonibread** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:21 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I voted for the previous version, for the reasons stated in the poll.

--Andy

Me too. I'm not even gonna go near the bonuses...

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:26 pm

i voted for the pevious version, because the new version doesn't actually make the states borders any more clear. The trouble remains that the dustbowl looks like a completely different region - it is more distinct from the other territories than the states are from each other.

I suspect there is a simple fix to this that we haven't thought of.

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:34 pm

rebelman wrote:oaktown is actually mistaken in that he thinks his figures match what rj has them at - this is not the case - rj has kansas as a +3 whereas oaktown came up with a +4 for it - actually that one change would make a big difference to make it fairer. I have been convinced on the merits of the other bonuses.

Oops - my bad! I would fully support Kansas as a +3 if the southern unpassable border was extended to Boise City, creating one less territory from which kansas can be hit. I actually think this would be a better option than making it +4 since that's pretty hefty for a five terit region, but as it will be everybody's favorite target I can live with the higher bonus.

pepperonibread · Post by **pepperonibread** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:37 pm

oaktown wrote:i voted for the previous version, because the new version doesn't actually make the states borders any more clear. The trouble remains that the dustbowl looks like a completely different region - it is more distinct from the other territories than the states are from each other.

I suspect there is a simple fix to this that we haven't thought of.

The text "Central drought regions are still part of their respective states"?

EDIT: My 500th post!

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:01 pm

pepperonibread wrote:The text "Central drought regions are still part of their respective states"?

EDIT: My 500th post!

Congrats on the post! And where would you suggest I add that line of text?

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:05 pm

actually even though i voted for the newer option it was never my intention that you would change it just do something with the legend / mini map so the average player is not confused.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:10 pm

So keep the real map as it was, only add a thin drought border in the mini-legend map? I could do that as well i guess. Although I'm still kinda liking the newer map

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:12 pm

RjBeals wrote:
pepperonibread wrote:The text "Central drought regions are still part of their respective states"?

EDIT: My 500th post!
Congrats on the post! And where would you suggest I add that line of text?

Shrink the small inset map just a bit, and run it down the right of the inset. ?? Then it appropriately would be under the State Bonus header and you could knock it down to "State bonuses include drought regions." I think that single line would give this map my thumbs-up.

Hmm... now that I look at the legend I see a few other things you could tweak for the sake of consistency:

• "Attacks" and "Central Drought Region" are a larger type size than "State Bonus."
• "Attacks" and "State Bonus" have colons, "Central drought region" doesn't.
• "State Bonus" caps the first letter of each word, "Central drought region" doesn't.
• By "region" do you mean to refer to a territory, or the entire drought area? Because by writing "region" in the header it refers to one singular large area, but further on you say "each central drought region" as if there are many. You can avoid this problem by changing the header to "Dust Bowl," since that's what the game is all about.
• I would pluralize "State Bonus" because there are actually six of them.

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:26 pm

RjBeals wrote:So keep the real map as it was, only add a thin drought border in the mini-legend map? I could do that as well i guess. Although I'm still kinda liking the newer map

me topo that's why I voted for it

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:26 pm

Yes Yes I see...

However, I don't think I can run more text down the right side of the mini-map. There's just not enough room. But I'll try and fit that line of text in somewhere.

And I'll make the titles all consistent.. Jeez oaktown - you're killing me! I'm trying to focus on iceland!

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:55 pm

none of these appeal to me. It looks messy.

pepperonibread · Post by **pepperonibread** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:01 pm

The 3rd looks the best imo.

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:27 pm

RjBeals wrote:So keep the real map as it was, only add a thin drought border in the mini-legend map? I could do that as well i guess. Although I'm still kinda liking the newer map

I don't know about this... the mini-map is there to show the states, which are the same regardless of the drought territories. Adding the extra lines only makes the mini map as confusing as the big map, which is counterproductive.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:30 pm

NEW

PREVIOUS

Changes:

I changed the drought region back closer to the original, since it's obviously preferred.
Added the "state bonuses include dust bowl" line above the mini-map
Took out the last two words "of America" in the last line of the description paragraph to allow room to move the rest of the legend text up.
Adjusted line spacing in places to give more room for that extra line of text.
Changed "Central Drought Region" to "Dustbowl" in the legend.
Fixed the colon, the font size & the capitalization of the titles in legend, what Oaktown suggested a few posts above.
I do not like the drought region outlined in the mini-map. It just looks way to messy to me. Hope this will work.
I still have the negative bonus worded "each central drought region" because it makes the most sense to me. I think the way the legend reads now, it's as clear as it can get.

Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Do you want to have the map changed so Dust territories are given out evenly?