Accused: Gods dad, Kambodia [GAME THROWING] [ka]
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:45 amAccused:
Gods dad
Kambodia
The accused are suspected of:
Other: Game Throwing (see viewtopic.php?f=239&t=232202 for the precedent on Game Throwing)
Game number(s):
Game 19635145
Comments: The Team members in Team 1 and Team 3 know each other from past games and are friendly. Kambodia has been a doubles partner with torresgerrard, and Gods dad has been a doubles partner with DuZ. The 2 teams were determined that one of them should win, not the other 2 teams, and therefore did not really attack each other. After 10 rounds, as pointed out by me in the comments, Red and Green had each taken only 4 territories total from anybody on Team 3 (and obviously when establishing bonuses in the early game it can sometimes be necessary to attack even friendly parties). They never once broke each others bonus. Likewise, after 10 rounds, Cyan and Pink had each only taken 5 territories total from anybody on Team 1. (The numbers taken from Team 2 and Team 4 are in the log and are much more numerous).
After Round 6, Red takes their predetermined but silent truce public, while fabricating a lie about the strength of Team 4 to justify it, saying:
2020-02-16 10:52:50 - Kambodia: T3, we are barely holding our own against an onslaught from T4, who are currently putting a combined 24 troops on the field each round, and they have plenty of men in reserve.
2020-02-16 10:54:37 - Kambodia: We don't pose a threat to you, and have no interest in going your way.
2020-02-16 11:33:44 - DuZ: k babe
Cyan's response is affectionate and clearly indicates a close familiarity with Kambodia.
I pointed out Red's fabrication and encouraged Team 3 to play a balanced game against Team 1 who currently was doing quite well contrary to their fabrication:
2020-02-16 20:25:49 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: this is a map with a win condition you know, team 3? if you make a truce like that with team 1 they're just going to execute the win condition unopposed.
2020-02-16 20:28:46 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: also Red is completely fabricating facts under the fog "barely holding their own" my ass.
2020-02-16 20:29:28 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: they are deploying 19 combined and started deploying bigger bonuses rounds before we did
2020-02-16 20:30:17 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: and literally no attacks by us on their bonus zones the entire game because we aren't in range
2020-02-16 20:31:05 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: "20-02-08 10:46:06 - Gods dad: urbanjedi, I've no plans to come your way if you don't come our way."
2020-02-16 20:40:16 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: and we didn't. haven't attacked their bonus region all gane.
2020-02-16 20:43:19 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: you guys clearly know each other, having doubled up in Baltic crusades. pretty sad if your 'strategy' for winning is to team up in a game where you're supposed to be foes.
Team 3 had no response at all despite their immediate response to Team 1's request for a truce.
Team 2 was putting up a big fight on Team Team 3 so they chose not to fight Team 4 where they were neighbors, leaving it up to Team 1 to fight Team 4.
When Team 4 was able to stave off Team 1. and Team 1 realized that only Team 3 would be able to win between the two of them so Green put in chat:
2020-02-23 10:56:45 - Gods dad: T4, I admit defeat, happy to pull back before T3 sweeps this.
1 day and 1 round later Green actually revealed his true colors saying:
2020-02-24 15:09:39 - Gods dad: I'm kinda hoping T3 wins, they deserve it
Green had already revealed that his team's intention at this point in the game, when they didn't have the strength to win, would be to aid Team 3 because he thought "they deserve it."
Team 1 realized they could not win the game and therefore chose to use their armies and attacks to help their friends on Team 3 win the game, which is the exact conduct b000b0 was penalized for in the example cited above. Team 1 actually admitted to this goal.
Team 4 protested that nobody "deserved to win" and continued to try to play on as if there would be balanced play from all teams and negotiated a cease-fire with Team 3 after they burst Silver's bonus.
Red reacted to this truce by saying:
2020-02-28 00:55:22 - Kambodia: Oh boy. This game is over, and one of the losing teams hasn't quite figured this out yet.
Kambodia acknowledged that his team felt the game already had a foregone outcome and that his team was "one of the losing teams" and he clearly was implying that Team 4 hadn't quite figured out that the game was already over because Team 3 was destined to win with the assistance of Team 1 to hobble Team 4.
Play continued and after a lull in activity, Team 1's Green started to attack Orange of Team 4 again, heading toward his bonus. Team 1 clearly wasn't trying to build a winning position (they already admitted that was impossible), but had begun their attacks on Team 4 to cripple them and allow Team 3 to win more easily.
The log clearly shows Green never attacked anyone but Orange after the discussion around Round 10. The log also shows that Red and Cyan never broke each other's bonus: although they engaged in a smokescreen skirmish back and forth for a few rounds, exchanging 1-3 terrs each time, but they never broke a bonus.
The lack of meaningful fighting between Red and Cyan was made very clear when, after Cyan finally attacked Team 4 to start the end game in Round 17, he immediately forted 37 hidden armies to Cher, the territory he had just taken over.
Then, in order to 'justify' Team 1's further inevitable assistance, Team 3 pretended in chat to be weak, as they had all game, and put out a rallying cry requesting Team 1 to assist them in fighting the horribly fearful Team 4 (in reality the Team with the far fewest armies between Team 3 and Team 4).
2020-03-10 11:38:31 - DuZ: time to take action t1
2020-03-10 11:38:45 - DuZ: altho looking really bleak already haha
Orange immediately pointed out the fabrication and invited Team 1 to use actual balanced play, including pointing out the evidence they could see with their own eyes, which included Cyan's 14 stack on Nievre next to Green, which Green had actual knowledge was significantly larger than anything Orange controlled (a 2, a 3, and a 4).
Cyan continued to fabricate his Team's weakness for the express purpose of 'justifying' Team 1 to assault us even though it was completely illogical and would never help Team 1 themselves.
Naturally Team 1 'bought in' to the fabricated justification and only attacked Team 4 territories on the following turn (plus 1 of his partner Green, not relevant to his march).
As this is written it is Round 19 and because it is trench it will take a handful of rounds for Team 3 to finish out their inevitable victory.
Team 1 is hitting orange in the east while Team 3 marches from the NW to take out Silver then Orange.
The evidence is clear, both from Team 1's own statements, the gameplay log of the deliberate choice by Team 1 and Team 3 to never significantly fight each other, and the past relationship between the teams as doubles partners in other games.
As happened in the game between b00b0 and iamcaffeine, the player (team) that knew it couldn't possibly win the game chose to throw the game to one of the 2 possible winning teams. in this case they did it because it was their friends, but as was established in the precedent regarding b00b0, it's not permissible for any reason for a losing team to deliberate throw the game to 1 of 2 possible winners.
Gods dad
Kambodia
The accused are suspected of:
Other: Game Throwing (see viewtopic.php?f=239&t=232202 for the precedent on Game Throwing)
Game number(s):
Game 19635145
Comments: The Team members in Team 1 and Team 3 know each other from past games and are friendly. Kambodia has been a doubles partner with torresgerrard, and Gods dad has been a doubles partner with DuZ. The 2 teams were determined that one of them should win, not the other 2 teams, and therefore did not really attack each other. After 10 rounds, as pointed out by me in the comments, Red and Green had each taken only 4 territories total from anybody on Team 3 (and obviously when establishing bonuses in the early game it can sometimes be necessary to attack even friendly parties). They never once broke each others bonus. Likewise, after 10 rounds, Cyan and Pink had each only taken 5 territories total from anybody on Team 1. (The numbers taken from Team 2 and Team 4 are in the log and are much more numerous).
After Round 6, Red takes their predetermined but silent truce public, while fabricating a lie about the strength of Team 4 to justify it, saying:
2020-02-16 10:52:50 - Kambodia: T3, we are barely holding our own against an onslaught from T4, who are currently putting a combined 24 troops on the field each round, and they have plenty of men in reserve.
2020-02-16 10:54:37 - Kambodia: We don't pose a threat to you, and have no interest in going your way.
2020-02-16 11:33:44 - DuZ: k babe
Cyan's response is affectionate and clearly indicates a close familiarity with Kambodia.
I pointed out Red's fabrication and encouraged Team 3 to play a balanced game against Team 1 who currently was doing quite well contrary to their fabrication:
2020-02-16 20:25:49 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: this is a map with a win condition you know, team 3? if you make a truce like that with team 1 they're just going to execute the win condition unopposed.
2020-02-16 20:28:46 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: also Red is completely fabricating facts under the fog "barely holding their own" my ass.
2020-02-16 20:29:28 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: they are deploying 19 combined and started deploying bigger bonuses rounds before we did
2020-02-16 20:30:17 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: and literally no attacks by us on their bonus zones the entire game because we aren't in range
2020-02-16 20:31:05 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: "20-02-08 10:46:06 - Gods dad: urbanjedi, I've no plans to come your way if you don't come our way."
2020-02-16 20:40:16 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: and we didn't. haven't attacked their bonus region all gane.
2020-02-16 20:43:19 - NvrTellMeTheOdds: you guys clearly know each other, having doubled up in Baltic crusades. pretty sad if your 'strategy' for winning is to team up in a game where you're supposed to be foes.
Team 3 had no response at all despite their immediate response to Team 1's request for a truce.
Team 2 was putting up a big fight on Team Team 3 so they chose not to fight Team 4 where they were neighbors, leaving it up to Team 1 to fight Team 4.
When Team 4 was able to stave off Team 1. and Team 1 realized that only Team 3 would be able to win between the two of them so Green put in chat:
2020-02-23 10:56:45 - Gods dad: T4, I admit defeat, happy to pull back before T3 sweeps this.
1 day and 1 round later Green actually revealed his true colors saying:
2020-02-24 15:09:39 - Gods dad: I'm kinda hoping T3 wins, they deserve it
Green had already revealed that his team's intention at this point in the game, when they didn't have the strength to win, would be to aid Team 3 because he thought "they deserve it."
Team 1 realized they could not win the game and therefore chose to use their armies and attacks to help their friends on Team 3 win the game, which is the exact conduct b000b0 was penalized for in the example cited above. Team 1 actually admitted to this goal.
Team 4 protested that nobody "deserved to win" and continued to try to play on as if there would be balanced play from all teams and negotiated a cease-fire with Team 3 after they burst Silver's bonus.
Red reacted to this truce by saying:
2020-02-28 00:55:22 - Kambodia: Oh boy. This game is over, and one of the losing teams hasn't quite figured this out yet.
Kambodia acknowledged that his team felt the game already had a foregone outcome and that his team was "one of the losing teams" and he clearly was implying that Team 4 hadn't quite figured out that the game was already over because Team 3 was destined to win with the assistance of Team 1 to hobble Team 4.
Play continued and after a lull in activity, Team 1's Green started to attack Orange of Team 4 again, heading toward his bonus. Team 1 clearly wasn't trying to build a winning position (they already admitted that was impossible), but had begun their attacks on Team 4 to cripple them and allow Team 3 to win more easily.
The log clearly shows Green never attacked anyone but Orange after the discussion around Round 10. The log also shows that Red and Cyan never broke each other's bonus: although they engaged in a smokescreen skirmish back and forth for a few rounds, exchanging 1-3 terrs each time, but they never broke a bonus.
The lack of meaningful fighting between Red and Cyan was made very clear when, after Cyan finally attacked Team 4 to start the end game in Round 17, he immediately forted 37 hidden armies to Cher, the territory he had just taken over.
Then, in order to 'justify' Team 1's further inevitable assistance, Team 3 pretended in chat to be weak, as they had all game, and put out a rallying cry requesting Team 1 to assist them in fighting the horribly fearful Team 4 (in reality the Team with the far fewest armies between Team 3 and Team 4).
2020-03-10 11:38:31 - DuZ: time to take action t1
2020-03-10 11:38:45 - DuZ: altho looking really bleak already haha
Orange immediately pointed out the fabrication and invited Team 1 to use actual balanced play, including pointing out the evidence they could see with their own eyes, which included Cyan's 14 stack on Nievre next to Green, which Green had actual knowledge was significantly larger than anything Orange controlled (a 2, a 3, and a 4).
Cyan continued to fabricate his Team's weakness for the express purpose of 'justifying' Team 1 to assault us even though it was completely illogical and would never help Team 1 themselves.
Naturally Team 1 'bought in' to the fabricated justification and only attacked Team 4 territories on the following turn (plus 1 of his partner Green, not relevant to his march).
As this is written it is Round 19 and because it is trench it will take a handful of rounds for Team 3 to finish out their inevitable victory.
Team 1 is hitting orange in the east while Team 3 marches from the NW to take out Silver then Orange.
The evidence is clear, both from Team 1's own statements, the gameplay log of the deliberate choice by Team 1 and Team 3 to never significantly fight each other, and the past relationship between the teams as doubles partners in other games.
As happened in the game between b00b0 and iamcaffeine, the player (team) that knew it couldn't possibly win the game chose to throw the game to one of the 2 possible winning teams. in this case they did it because it was their friends, but as was established in the precedent regarding b00b0, it's not permissible for any reason for a losing team to deliberate throw the game to 1 of 2 possible winners.