Conquer Club

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:05 am**

Looks like the final version still had "reservoirs" spelled incorrectly. Oops! Any chance this can still be updated? Nothing else about the map changed - just corrected the typo.

Portland.xml: Updated 8/1; (20.23 KiB) Downloaded 2968 times

Click image to enlarge.

Thanks to Victor Sullivan and Ian canton for their help on the XML and ChipV for the handy XML tool.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:54 am**

About Portland

Recently voted "Greenest US City" by Popular Science Magazine, Portland boasts world-class rose gardens, unique places like 5,100 acre Forest Park (the largest urban forest reserve in the US) and Mt. Tabor Park (built on an extinct volcano). The Metropolitan Area Express (MAX) Light Rail has the 2nd highest ridership in the US and with urban bike lanes that stretch throughout the city, it is know as one of the most bike friendly cities in the world.

THE BASICS

All MAX stations, microbrews and rose gardens are starting positions
Fareless Zone and SW Hills start 2 neutral
Bike Paths are killer neutrals of 1 each
The rest are normal territories
8 Continents (N, NE, NW, SW, SE, Downtown, & the MAX)
MAX Stops are named for the neighborhoods with which they connect (i.e. Old Town-Pioneer)
To receive a "MAX" bonus, a player must hold all stops for a particular colored line, including Fareless Zone - which decays 1 troop each round it is held.

Previous Drafts

Version 50:
New trees!
Made connections in NW clearer.
Fixed legend error on bike neutrals.

Click image to enlarge.

Version 49:
Made a few small tweaks and updated the XML for the large map. I know everyone is over this map, but I really think this update looks a lot better. Can I get a little love?

Click image to enlarge.

Version 48:
Made a lot of graphical touchups throughout the map - some aesthetic, some functional.

Branched out MAX stops with only 1 connected neighborhood.
Redrew some territory lines and added better background texture.
Redrew Ladd's Addition.
Tidied up the legend.

I will update the XML soon and move the MAX numbers to the white section of the stops.

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I made a few, mostly minor, graphic changes to clean things up and improve the overall look. Thoughts?

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42nd Draft
Updated legend to reflect gameplay change

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40th Draft
More drop shadow on trees
XML next!

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39th Draft
Added drop shadows to roses, brews, and trees
Changed the anti-alias of the header & legend text for increased clarity

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38th Draft
Fixed header text
Also re-did Swan Island for clarity
Darkened MAX windows
Cleaned up beer icons
Fixed black spots under train tracks and other minor blemishes

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37th Draft
Changed back to Impassables
Anything left with graphics?

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35th Draft
Fixed up the sign as DiM suggested and also re-did the "Made in Oregon" sign.
Changed the bike territory names to neutral color.
I also fixed up some other minor aesthetic things that were bugging me, like the goofy blue MAX line in SW/Downtown.

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34th Draft
Played around with a few versions, but this one really grabbed me...

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33rd Draft
More aesthetic changes (page 17 for details)

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32nd Draft

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31st Draft
Different MAX stops work better with troop numbers?

30th Draft
Some minor graphic tweaks to allow for better fit with troop numbers

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29th Draft
Added labels to Bike Paths
Added troop number examples

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28th Draft
Redesigned bridges
Clarified The Pearl border
Darkened all borders

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27th Draft
Tweaked Nob Hill <> Overlook bridge for clarity
Replaced St Johns <> University land bridge with a road bridge for style

Click image to enlarge.

26th Draft
Clarified legend
Changed Fareless Zone to a -1 troop decay on that territory when held
You can now only receive a bonus for 4 roses OR 4 microbrews - not both
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... new3-1.png

25th Draft
Mostly just gameplay updates
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... new2-1.png

24th Draft
Legend & gameplay edits

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... _new-4.png
Just the biggie for now. Will post the small when this one is OK'd.

23rd Draft
Major re-design

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... _new-1.png
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... mall-1.png

22nd Draft
Dropped the buildings/boxes from Downtown, but left the background sans grid.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land27.jpg

21st Draft
Re-worked the legend again for a better layout. I think it fits together quite nicely now.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land26.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... 26_big.jpg

20th Draft
Tried to make this one less flat.
Found a different font I like.
Moved around the Legend.
Re-did the Downtown street grid.
Re-arranged Max stop numbers
Added the airport as a Highlight and dropped a rose garden.

Perhaps it is too late in the process, but I wanted to float the idea of the "Highlights" starting neutral and then being +1 auto-deploy when owned. Among other benefits, it makes it impossible for a player to start with the SW or NW bonuses. Thoughts on this change?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land25.jpg

19th Draft update:
Replaced Swan Island train track with caution retainer.
Tweaked drop shadow on Blue Max line
Added depth to Oregon Zoo & Mt Tabor reservoirs
Re-ordered MAX numbering
Other minor visual tweaks

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land24.jpg

18th Draft update:
Fixed bridge connections
Added train track impassable and softened edge of Swan Island.
Added contour to Mt Tabor (volcano) and Forest Park
Toned down highlights for other Attractions bonuses.
Added more detail to USS Blueback submarine.
Added rose background and fancy title font back into header.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land23.jpg

17th Draft update:
Dropped new land bridges.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land22.jpg

16th Draft update:
Reluctantly dropped 3-D bridges
Added additional bridges between Overlook/Mississippi & Hollywood/Belmont
Fixed Alberta/Hollywood connection
Dropped legend background, added iconic "Made In Oregon" sign.

16.5 - cleaned up the new bridges a bit
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land21.jpg

15th Draft update:
Toned down Forest Park texture more and added trees.
Converted parks into park bench icons to better match look of map.
Upped Highlights bonus by 1.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land19.jpg

14th Draft update:
Dropped auto deploy idea.
Upped N bonus by 1.
Changed "NW Ind." to "NW Industrial"
I toned down the textured elements of map - parks, bridges, waterways in an effort to minimize the visual clash. I did leave some texture in Forest Park, because I want it to be evident that the entire territory is a park, but I made it look more like a NW territory. I also lowered the bridges to make them look level and not looming over the map.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land18.jpg

13th Draft update:
Raised bonus for parks, downtown, NE & blue line MAX.
Blue line extended.
Bike lane killer neutrals lowered to 2, removed from University, Alberta, Hawthorne.
-1 bonus adjustment for holding two MAX lines, -2 for holding all three.
Testing a +1 auto-deploy on "Attractions", rather than a +4 bonus for holding all four? Thoughts?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land17.jpg

12th Draft update:
Removed Bike Lane bonus and lowered neutrals to 3 a piece - resetting if held one round.
Transit Center is now -1 only if a MAX bonus is held.
Raised MAX bonuses by 2 each.
Lowered N bonus to 3.

(forgot to actually update the image last time - oops!)
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land15.jpg

11th Draft update:

Added 4 new territories (N Bike Lane, NE Bike Lane, SE Bike Lane, Forest Park Bike Lane) in place of former Bike bonuses. These territories start 6 neutral.
Now that there are less of these and they are separate (and neutral) territories, I think its okay to have them attack each other. I like the idea of them being a way to move around the map. Neutral armies prevent them from being as detrimental as before and I've upped the bonus to 8 since it will be harder to capture and keep them.
Is it clear enough that they are connected or does this need to be explained better? Should I add 2 more territories some where for an even 48?
I toned down some of the stronger visuals to reduce clutter. I "un-blobbed" the reservoirs to the best of my ability and flattened out various other icons.
I added Max Lines to the Detour (Don't Cross) list and labeled these. I don't know what else to call Ladd's Circle. Road maze? If the neighborhoods don't need explanation - why this?
I'm open to suggestions for a better legend background.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land14.jpg

10th Draft update:
Altered borders in N & NE, by extending railroad tracks to St. Johns and shrinking Swan Island.
Removed 4-way border in NE.
Dropped a Yellow Max stop and added a new territory to NE (Cully).
#6 Max stop no longer attacks Oregon Zoo.
#5 Max stop unchanged. Downtown can be defended with 4 territories either way.
Changed train and bridge graphics.
Removed ability for bike lanes to attack each other.
Fareless square starts with 3 neutral. -1 army each turn held.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land13.jpg

9th Draft update:
Does this tickle anyone's fancy?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land11.jpg

Eighth Draft update:
Completely re-drew borders for entire map.
Re-drew all Parks, Bridges, & Detours.
Added impassable 'bluffs' to Swan Island. Access only from NW Industrial & MAX stop 7. Upped North bonus to +4.
Bike lanes can now attack other bike lanes. Bonus ONLY for holding all bike lanes.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... land10.jpg

Seventh Draft update:
Made significant layout changes.
Removed some MAX stops (#3 & #11 gone)
Added new territories in SE (split Belmont into Hawthorne; split Clinton into Mt. Scott).
Re-designed NW & SW (removed Multnomah Village; added Sylvan Heights)
Re-routed Blue Line MAX through Downtown.
Added impassables (Railroads dividing territories in N, NE & NW; water (a reservoir) & an obstruction in SE).
(Debating on how to signify these in the legend)
Restructured Park & Bike bonuses and District bonuses according to re-structuring.
REMOVED "School" bonus completely.
Re-colored Downtown.
Re-did legend.
Seventh Draft addendum:
Extended NE railroad and raised bonus to +6
Added "Detours" section to legend to show impassables.
Changed SE reservoir image to look more like a body of water

(Just the smaller version this time:)
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... tland9.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... tland8.jpg

Sixth Draft update: Made some very minor changes - chose clearer font for MAX stop markers. Toned down some of the stronger fonts in the legend. Made SE pinker (per Astoria's suggestion).

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... -Map_7.jpg

Fifth Draft update: Forest Park is no longer required for a park bonus - now all parks are equal. Moved some bonuses around for a more even spread. Added #s to all MAX stops (except Transit Center). Altered some bonus amounts for consistency. Also added some texture to Forest Park and a map header and toned down Downtown's road grid for look and style improvement.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... hdraft.jpg

Fourth Draft update: Made some minor changes regarding coloration. I've also eliminated the confusing park situation in Downtown. Now only "Old Town" is a 'park territory'. I've changed Forest Park's border color to signify that the entire territory is indeed a park.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102 ... hdraft.jpg

Third Draft update: Made some significant layout changes, based on feedback from oaktown and others. Downtown now exists within its real boundaries, rather than as an inset. There are now 42 territories (rather than 41) for better gameplay. The connection from the Transit Center to Downtown is much clearer, as is the contents of the NW bonus. I've also added "Shoe Town" and "OMSI" to the map and included them as a bonus package with the Rose Gardens.

Third Draft

Second Draft update: I've re-sized these both to the proper limitations and added more detail to the MAX stops for clarity, as well as a thin connecting line through Downtown from the Blue Line Zoo/SW Hills stop to the Rose Garden Transit Center. This one may still be confusing, so I'm open to suggestions. The Zoo/Hills stop should be able to attack the Transit Center and vice versa. There's also so very minor name and boundary changes.

Second Draft (link)

First Draft (link)

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:39 am**

im just a little confused about the stops...who do they attack? There is no real clear border on those stops

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:50 am**

You need Omsi if you have the Zoo. Docks would be better if it was renamed Swan Island. The Portland Trailblazers should be there somehow even if it's an Icon like your college things on an existing square.

Will think about this more.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:52 am**

Powell Books is a must too.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:33 pm**

Don't forget Lewis and Clark College.

Whooooo Pios!!!

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:42 pm**

Redmond Rules wrote:You need Omsi if you have the Zoo. Docks would be better if it was renamed Swan Island. The Portland Trailblazers should be there somehow even if it's an Icon like your college things on an existing square.

Will think about this more.

The Zoo is really just a space-friendly stand-in for Washington Park. I might be able to squeeze OMSI into Inner SE, but it would only be decoration. I'm trying to avoid clutter on the map unless it serves a purpose, but I'll try to work it in. Same goes for Powell's. There's just not room for it.

I had thought about the Trailblazers, but since CC is already dealing with copyright-infringement, I don't think it will fly. Additionally, if you compare it to other city-specific maps like NYC, San Francisco & Puget Sound - none of them mention sports teams, even though they have many.

Good call on Swan Island. I like that better... but fitting it in that space might be tough.

Good feedback. Thanks!

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:56 pm**

psilotum wrote:Don't forget Lewis and Clark College.

Whooooo Pios!!!

Ha - no slight to the Pioneers... L&C is just too far south to fit on this map. I've also neglected Concordia, but the NE quadrant already has 6 territories with potential bonuses.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:58 pm**

bspride wrote:im just a little confused about the stops...who do they attack? There is no real clear border on those stops

They can attack other adjacent stops and any neighborhood that they touch. I'll have to think of how to make this clearer on the map. Any suggestions?

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:09 pm**

looks like it might be cool.. map sizes are wrong though, to big.

have you read through this? http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 10&t=40463

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:39 pm**

It's a little strange (game-play wise) that the entire MAX blue line is part of the red line. I realize this is somewhat accurate considering where you cut off the edge of your map. How about including the blue line stop in Goose Hollow or the Zoo? (I know technically those stops would also include the red line, but for game play it would be better if they didn't.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:45 pm**

lostatlimbo wrote:
psilotum wrote:Don't forget Lewis and Clark College.

Whooooo Pios!!!
Ha - no slight to the Pioneers... L&C is just too far south to fit on this map. I've also neglected Concordia, but the NE quadrant already has 6 territories with potential bonuses.

LC is right in the Terwilliger Curves! And inside Portland city limits!

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:03 pm**

psilotum wrote:It's a little strange (game-play wise) that the entire MAX blue line is part of the red line. I realize this is somewhat accurate considering where you cut off the edge of your map. How about including the blue line stop in Goose Hollow or the Zoo? (I know technically those stops would also include the red line, but for game play it would be better if they didn't.

Hmmm... check again - the Blue line does go to the Zoo and even to Beaverton. The Red Line and Blue Line each have 6 stops and only 4 are shared between them - including the Rose Garden Transit Center - which is also shared with Yellow.

*I added a thin, connecting line between these two - does that help visually to connect the Zoo with the Transit Center?

Re: Lewis & Clark - in scale it would be well-below the section that talks about the MAX bonuses. If there was more room in the Terwilliger area, I would fudge the details, but that would give one territory 2 schools and an automatic bonus of +1. I purposely tried to spread school, bike and park bonuses out for fairness.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:07 pm**

I'll come back later (maybe not today) with a proper analysis but one thing I think is important...

42 territories is much better than 41

42 is divisible by 3, 6, and 7

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:49 pm**

I like Portland - very close to skiing. Not the best snow in the country, but the top of Mt Hood is unique. I was there on a snowy day down below, took that chair to the top, and came up and over the clouds to some pretty nice off-piste skiing with perhaps the best view I've ever had on skis... sorry, Heavenly.

Map style: nice. Colors are friendly without being sickenly bright and cheery... kinda like Portland. I wonder if there isn't some way to make better use of space? Some territories are really large, while the downtown/Zoo/Forest Park area is a bit muddled and could stand some more space. I don't think it's bad to take some liberties with true geography if it means better play. For instance, you could cut 40 pixels off of the right side of the easternmost territories and not effect the map at all.

That would give you room to do a bit of work on the downtown map - I have trouble telling what can attack what on the inset map, which may be a color issue. And the +1 bonus is what exactly?

The MAX stations and crossings of the lines took me a while to figure out, so some clarity there wouldn't hurt... i'd say the more you can tell from the map itself and the less you have to explain in the legends the better. And are there no MAX stations downtown?

Nice start.

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:17 am**

edbeard wrote:I'll come back later (maybe not today) with a proper analysis but one thing I think is important...

42 territories is much better than 41

42 is divisible by 3, 6, and 7

(cough cough and 2

)

/agree

Fitting in one more province would give your map much better gameplay on a range of settings. 2p games would start with equal neutrals to players, 3p would have no neutrals, and you would have only 2 neutrals on 4p 5p 8p.

I have no clue as to the layout of Rose City, so i can't suggest anything, but I would strongly suggest adding in just one more province

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:49 pm**

lostatlimbo wrote:
psilotum wrote:It's a little strange (game-play wise) that the entire MAX blue line is part of the red line. I realize this is somewhat accurate considering where you cut off the edge of your map. How about including the blue line stop in Goose Hollow or the Zoo? (I know technically those stops would also include the red line, but for game play it would be better if they didn't.
Hmmm... check again - the Blue line does go to the Zoo and even to Beaverton. The Red Line and Blue Line each have 6 stops and only 4 are shared between them - including the Rose Garden Transit Center - which is also shared with Yellow.

*I added a thin, connecting line between these two - does that help visually to connect the Zoo with the Transit Center?

D'oh! Ah, yes. That thin line does help. Perhaps it could be a thick line in a lighter shade? Or perhaps you should still add that Goose Hollow stop.

I look forward to playing this one. It will be fun.

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:30 pm**

Ah, good suggestions. I'll re-think Downtown some and add that extra territory, then try to submit a new draft next week.

Thanks!

Posted: **Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:22 am**

I like this idea and give it the Jayde Stamp of Approval. When can we play it?

Posted: **Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:55 pm**

Third Draft posted.

Click image to enlarge.

Your feedback has been great so far, keep it coming.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:25 pm**

I think the third draft is a significant improvement. And I really like the whole concept - the map is great, gameplay should be interesting, and there are enough unique twists to make strategy lively (without an overwhelming number of options to worry about).

I would suggest a few minor clarifications, though:

1. It's not clear whether Forest Park includes a park space bonus or not. The green box around the "Forest Park" label is kind of faded and washed out, so I can't tell if it's just highlighting forest park or actually includes park land. If it does include a park, I'd separate it from the label somehow. Maybe have a wedge-shaped green space stretching northwest or something.

2. The color for Alberta Arts needs to more closely match the surrounding areas. Right now, I think players could be too easily confused into thinking it's a separate bonus alone or one territory in the surrounding set of NE Portland.

3. It's not clear how Waterfront Park figures into the park bonus option. All the other parks are enclosed within territories, so it's pretty easy to see that you need to occupy the territory to get the park bonus. But Waterfront Park borders four territories. That's visually confusing, and the notation that "Old Town, Pioneer, and S. Park share 1 park" doesn't clarify matters. Does that mean I -- as a player -- have to occupy all three territories to get credit for that one park? Or, for example, would I get a +2 bonus for occupying Old Town, Alameda, St. Johns, and Mt. Tabor?

4. And why doesn't Terwilliger Curves also share the Waterfront Park bonus?

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:31 pm**

lostatlimbo wrote:Third Draft posted.

For future reference, please could you add an updated image to the end of the thread, where you've posted an update, as well as on the first post. It makes the development much easier to follow, and will help people to tie comments to particular versions.

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:06 pm**

I like how you are putting streets on the map...it looks good like that...im hoping your considering doing that for the whole map...also maybe in the parks you could put dirt trails and trees in the continent...other than that the map looks good...keeping on keeping on

Posted: **Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:29 pm**

MrBenn wrote:...please could you add an updated image to the end of the thread, where you've posted an update...

Done!

ReluctantCynic wrote:I think the third draft is a significant improvement. And I really like the whole concept - the map is great, gameplay should be interesting, and there are enough unique twists to make strategy lively (without an overwhelming number of options to worry about).

Thanks!

ReluctantCynic wrote: 1. It's not clear whether Forest Park includes a park space bonus or not. The green box around the "Forest Park" label is kind of faded and washed out, so I can't tell if it's just highlighting forest park or actually includes park land.

I had hoped to clarify this by requiring Forest Park as part of ANY park bonus - rather than it being a territory with a park. Since Forest Park represents a 5,100 acre stretch of forest, I wanted to represent it as the full territory - hence the pattern of grass, rather than a swatch of color. Initially, I had all of Forest Park outlined with that bright green border, so perhaps that's the way to go? I'll think about this one some more. It needs to be clear from the map that Forest Park is at the center of any Park bonus.

ReluctantCynic wrote: 2. The color for Alberta Arts needs to more closely match the surrounding areas. Right now, I think players could be too easily confused into thinking it's a separate bonus alone or one territory in the surrounding set of NE Portland.

Easy fix. I'll make that change with the next draft.

ReluctantCynic wrote: 3. It's not clear how Waterfront Park figures into the park bonus option. All the other parks are enclosed within territories, so it's pretty easy to see that you need to occupy the territory to get the park bonus. But Waterfront Park borders four territories. That's visually confusing, and the notation that "Old Town, Pioneer, and S. Park share 1 park" doesn't clarify matters. Does that mean I -- as a player -- have to occupy all three territories to get credit for that one park? Or, for example, would I get a +2 bonus for occupying Old Town, Alameda, St. Johns, and Mt. Tabor? 4. And why doesn't Terwilliger Curves also share the Waterfront Park bonus?

This has been my biggest head-scratcher so far. The notion is that there is one park (Waterfront) that only counts as one park, but can be counted for any of those 3 territories. For example, you could receive a +2 bonus for holding Forest Park, St. Johns, Alameda & Old Town (4 separate parks), but you could not receive a bonus for holding Forest park, St. Johns, Old Town & Pioneer. (only 3 separate parks). Another example would be a player receiving a +5 bonus by holding Forest Park, St. Johns, University, Irvington, Alameda, Mt Tabor, Belmont, & Old Town EVEN IF another player holds Pioneer & South Park, because you are holding 8 separate parks.

On the third draft, I drew up a border around downtown (including that park), but no lines over the park itself. Visually, I had hoped that this would clarify the connection. Terwilliger is not a "park" territory, because there are no parks within its boundaries. Territories that qualify for a park bonus, must have a park within its borders.

I'm open to ideas on how to achieve this visually, though I worry that it may not work for the XML, either, so alternatively I may end up limiting that park to one territory - rather than the three.

Posted: **Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:29 pm**

Beaverton & Nob Hill... are these real place names?

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