Conquer Club

It's OCTOPOD Threshold Tournament
(@mods: if this considers as unallowed crossposting, please remove only the link, not entire message)

This post is about reserves I need. Next one is about advice...

A) Reserves

I needed help from the very beginning, but I was reluctant to ask for it. Just now, when I have more than twenty participants already, I'm less ashamed to ask for help...

What's the problem? The problem is that very often a player signs up for some tournament and then immediately forgets about it. My tourney has 25 signed participants, but after more than a month how many of them actually remembers they are in and still want to play? (It's my first CC tourney, so I have no previous experience)
I can't feel secure without at least 5 reserves. I mean real reserves - players who are willing to play and are also willing to leave this privilege to someone else.

So please check the thread. If you have a burning desire to play, feel free to sign up as a player. If your desire is not that burning, but you're still willing to play if needed, please sign up as a reserve - you'll be very helpful! To me and to everybody else who wants to play this tournament...

Thank you in advance!

B) Advice

Well, I want to put all mistakes I made at one place - to teach myself and other wannabe organizers - what a TO should and what a TO shouldn't do. I of course can't see all my mistakes and that's why I need your help. Let's first list obvious mistakes:

1. Rush - choice of a bad moment
I'm not experienced enough to say which part of year is the best for announcing new tournaments on CC. However, I know which part of the year is the worst - middle of the (North hemisphere) summer, a period between July 15th and August 15th.
I announced my (first!) tourney at July 16th! Deadly mistake! Why have I done it? I had a fever, just couldn't wait...
There have been two special reasons more, that made the moment wrong, but I'll pass over them. The point is:
If you want to announce a tournament - double check are there some special reasons to delay the announcement. You can save a lot of trouble!

2. Rush - lack of proper preparations
Today, we normally read in Tournament Newsletter about future tourneys. Wise organizers do things on time - they inform the Tournament Newsletter Team at least a month before launching a tourney. It's just a normal practice...
Probably nobody remembers that it was actually my idea, published about a year ago. However, being a smart ass is one thing, being a good TO is completely another one. Since my tourney is moderately complicated I should make a thread in this sub-forum, just for discussion. After some discussion, I should announce my tourney in Newsletter. And THEN, I should open an official thread for taking sign ups.
That's how I should do the job. I knew it, but I didn't. I made a tournament in my mind and I made an official tournament thread, almost immediately. Why? I just couldn't wait...

Rush is really a mortal sin in this job. That's why I included it twice in this list of mistakes. Especially now when you have only a month between announcing and beginning of a tournament. WHATEVER useful you can do before the announcement - just DO IT!

3. Too long and/or complicated announcing post
That's a certain drawback of any tournament, but I really had no idea how to avoid it.

4. No plot
That's certainly by far the biggest mistake I made. To me as a player, it's most important what kind of games a tourney offers and which system of competition organizer uses. Possible plot is mostly irrelevant.
But I'm a freshman! After several dozens of tournaments played, a player starts to feel completely different. Every type of game and every system becomes an "already read book" - it's the plot that makes a tourney interesting!
If I made a really good plot (I didn't even thick about it!) - the very same tourney would be filled in less than a week! I'm positive about it. Don't repeat my mistake!

5. Too rigid enforcement of rules
It's a mistake I actually didn't make . But this issue was so important that I had to mention it...
People just don't read the rules carefully enough. Many of them don't read it at all! They come to play, very few of them really enjoy reading TO's announcements and think about of tournament system...
So a lot of understanding and patience is needed. Even if you can afford tough attitude, what are you going to achieve? If you offer an attractive prize, they'll probably "behave", but enforced discipline isn't really long lasting...

Well, that's the list of obvious mistakes. Now I am inviting everyone who has time and is willing to help - to check the tournament thread and try to find less obvious ones. You'll certainly find something, since I have had a really low joining rate (less than player per day), for a good tournament. That can't be without a reason...
Please, post your conclusions here. And let critic be sharp and direct - I'm not a mimosa...

And finally - I have a concrete question:
As I already said - there are at least several (perhaps many more) players who signed up and immediately forgot about it. Considering that - how many reserves (according to your experience) I actually need?

Thank you in advance

Why not throw in my 2 cents.

First of all, sorry but I won't join as a reserve, adding 8 more games to my gameload is not what I can handle right now. More about reserves. After tournament getting full, I wait a day or two, maximum three for reserves. Usually I get a few, if I don't get any then I still start with tournament because IMO there's no point letting others to wait or players who I might not need at all. Plus there's always a chance to get more reserves by making a new thread in the Create/Join (Reserve Thread Policy)

My experience shows that if players sign up to the tournament then, yes, he/she forgets about it right away BUT he/she is most likely willing to play whenever tournament starts and you message him/her their games (I think it is with most players but not all!).

About your advice (I have 20 tournaments finished but I still do mistakes so don't worry about yours! ).

1. Rush You are completely right I think - sign ups are the slowest during summer. I have never had problems filling tournaments but during summer it goes extra slow. Also, I think that right now is not the best time for announcing a tournament because people are going back to school and won't have much time to CC (but I can't be sure of that).

2. Rush I'm not sure if you are right about it. It might seem that many organisers use the newsletter but I'm fairly sure that most aren't. More experienced organisers just have easier job of filling tournaments just because they are more known and the fact that they have more experience helps them make either more popular tournaments or just attract players.
Also, what I've noticed is that discussing your tournament in these forums isn't very popular. And if people do try to do it then IMO it doesn't get enough feedback. I might be wrong as I have never done it personally.

3. Too long and/or complicated announcing post Sadly you are right. There was a thread in these forums at some point and it came out that the longer the introduction is the worse for the tournament because mostly people just skim it through. IMO you can have a longer introduction post but settings/maps must be brought out bold and colorful and huge so people who wish to skim would get the main things easily and fast.

4. Plot Yep, the story, the background etc is important. Not the most important thing but I've found out that my tournaments with horrible settings/maps but with a good idea/story fill fast.

5. Too rigid enforcement of rules As I said before, most people skim the tourney thread and that's it.

Zemljanin wrote:And finally - I have a concrete question:
As I already said - there are at least several (perhaps many more) players who signed up and immediately forgot about it. Considering that - how many reserves (according to your experience) I actually need?

How many you are going to need depends completely who signed up and how long your tournament will be going on. If you wish to bring in reserves after round 2 (I would suggest not to bring in new players). So, I think that you won't need many reserves... 1-2 perhaps?


I ran out of time but I will take another look at your tournament later (I've read it before but don't remember much because I read through all tournament that are created). [This Section Under Construction ]

EDIT.
So, about your tournament. I'm just going to put down things that I either like or that bother me (probably things that I don't like because it's in human nature to be negative. How was it... 4 out of 6 humans' basic emotions are negative? Or something like that). Anyway, back to topic, amazzony, back to topic!

First thing is that I didn't see clearly if it is opened for freemium or just premium. Yes, you mention it but I like to see it right away and in bold/red/huge (just my geeky thing. But as this post is about my personal opinion then I think I'm allowed to post it).

Actually, I think there's nothing wrong with it. I would add more colors (as my first point said ) and as I mentioned before - people like to see settings/maps easily when they skim the posts.


Hope it helps, even a bit!

amazzony

A) RESERVES

I wouldn't say that a player immediately forgets about it. If they're premium, and they've logged on recently, chances are, when you send them their game number, they'll join it.

I would probably help you but I'm not a premium.

B) ADVICE

1. Rush

Well, I'd suppose that summer time in the Northern Hemisphere is definately not the best time to post it [especially mid summer], but if the idea is good enough, it'll probably work, even through the worst time of announcing period.

2. Rush

Only once did I announce it in the newsletter, and I didn't even start the tourneys that I planned for it. That time was because I was interviewed and that was one of the questions [and that was more than 2 months ago, I believe]. I'm not really for the whole "announcing it in the newsletter" thing, but probably that's just my laziness.

3. Too long and/or complicated announcing post

Bold/Colourful/Huge is definately not my thing. Probably should make it short & simple. Organization is definately key here. As well, my advice would be so that you have all the basic info [which attracts the players in my opinion] like this:

Number of Players: 16 (plus 3 reserves)
Map: Crossword
Game Type: Standard
Play Order: Sequential
Bonus Cards: Random
Fortifications: Random
Fog of War: Random
Number of Games: 2

Fill in the places as needed. Also put whether or not premium/non-premiums allowed above or below this info. I should not have to read a couple of paragraphs whether or not to see this. Then put all the other "complicated stuff" below it. In fact, I shouldn't have to read more than 100+ words to see whether or not I'm allowed to join [or scroll]

4. No Plot

I don't really think a plot is really need. An intro maybe, but I think a really good idea is what's really needed to get a tourney jump-started.

5. Too rigid enforcement of rules

I think this section should be renamed "people not reading the tourney handbook". But everything under this section you wrote, I completely agree with.

_____

6. Too complicated idea

I think many new tourney organizers have this problem, but probably you were having a too complicated idea for a new organizer. I think people are more willing to accept a too complicated idea on a veteran organizer vs. a new one.

7. Map choice

I also don't think you should have let people choose the map, or give that many limitations, such as no map under 40 territories. Classic is good, you'll [almost] never make mistakes on map choice while creating games, and classic tends to attract most of the non-regulars as well, as long as it's in the title.

8. Too many players

For a complicated idea, I don't think you should be wanting too many players. 16 is a good starting number. When I started my first tourney, it was Big Brother 1 - CC Style, which barely got 16. I think start small & if there is enough reserves, you could add on.

9. Restricting freemiums

I think this is a BIG mistake, especially when you need players, limiting [probably] 1/4 of all players is definately not going to get more than 2-3 players a day. When starting out, I would recommend [if following all of the above] not restricting freemiums. After you've started out, and developed a reputation as an organizer, than start using those ideas that do restrict freemiums because you want it to run faster.

Zemljanin wrote: And finally - I have a concrete question:
As I already said - there are at least several (perhaps many more) players who signed up and immediately forgot about it. Considering that - how many reserves (according to your experience) I actually need?

I would think at least 5+ especially if it would last a long time. My Jeopardy! Season 1 tourney is in the 4th game of the first round, and already ate up 8 reserves. I'll think more by the time it's through.

Well, I hope that helps!

~ditto

dittoeevee8888 wrote:4. No Plot

I don't really think a plot is really need. An intro maybe, but I think a really good idea is what's really needed to get a tourney jump-started.

It's a bit funny to hear it from you. Of course, you don't have a certain plot but all your tournaments have a theme and theme=plot=attracting players IMO. Or maybe I'm understanding the word plot wrongly, not sure.

Wow, you are fantastic!! Truly resourceful posts! I am going to study them...

Thanks!!

amazzony wrote:

dittoeevee8888 wrote:4. No Plot

I don't really think a plot is really need. An intro maybe, but I think a really good idea is what's really needed to get a tourney jump-started.

It's a bit funny to hear it from you. Of course, you don't have a certain plot but all your tournaments have a theme and theme=plot=attracting players IMO. Or maybe I'm understanding the word plot wrongly, not sure.

Plot and theme are two different things in my opinion. Though I forgot to add "theme". Plot to me is something more of a story to the beginning, tourneys that have kind of a goal probably like Marfski's Mashed Taters? [I think, this is purely going from the top of my head], or Gozar's The Legend of Tor Na'Mit. Probably something along the lines of an RPG game or something like that is what comes to mind "plot" though something that has a goal that usually requires winning a lot of games.
Theme is probably more of an idea, and I can't really differentiate it, though I'd probably say that most of the ones that either is a series, or planning to be a series. [Or using a specific type of game]
Idea, is probably a one shot tournament, likely not to repeat again from the same tourney organizer.

[Yes these are just my explanations for these tournaments, not necessarily true, or correct]

Zemljanin wrote:Wow, you are fantastic!! Truly resourceful posts! I am going to study them...

Thanks!!

You might find it a bit boring to study it though

[Hosting tournaments is a lot better, just gets easier with experience]

dittoeevee8888 wrote:

amazzony wrote:

dittoeevee8888 wrote:4. No Plot

I don't really think a plot is really need. An intro maybe, but I think a really good idea is what's really needed to get a tourney jump-started.

It's a bit funny to hear it from you. Of course, you don't have a certain plot but all your tournaments have a theme and theme=plot=attracting players IMO. Or maybe I'm understanding the word plot wrongly, not sure.

Plot and theme are two different things in my opinion. Though I forgot to add "theme". Plot to me is something more of a story to the beginning, tourneys that have kind of a goal probably like Marfski's Mashed Taters? [I think, this is purely going from the top of my head], or Gozar's The Legend of Tor Na'Mit. Probably something along the lines of an RPG game or something like that is what comes to mind "plot" though something that has a goal that usually requires winning a lot of games.
Theme is probably more of an idea, and I can't really differentiate it, though I'd probably say that most of the ones that either is a series, or planning to be a series. [Or using a specific type of game]
Idea, is probably a one shot tournament, likely not to repeat again from the same tourney organizer.

[Yes these are just my explanations for these tournaments, not necessarily true, or correct]

I don't make difference between theme/story/plot/whatever else can be added here but my crappy English don't know words. My only point is that IMO tournaments with somekind of "background" recruit better. May it be a story that is followed through the whole tournament or a reality show or something based on the sports' event or... I have a complete mindcramp. Anyway, I think that just saying that round one is 15 games with these settings, second round 10 games with these settings etc is less attracting than some theme thingy.

[/crappy post]

dittoeevee8888 wrote:

Zemljanin wrote:Wow, you are fantastic!! Truly resourceful posts! I am going to study them...

Thanks!!

You might find it a bit boring to study it though

[Hosting tournaments is a lot better, just gets easier with experience]

Agreed, I don't think I added something very interesting And hosting - this is the true fun of these things

LOL, until the last game filled, I was too tense to even say a word in this thread...
Yeah, the tournament goes . I had only one reserve, but precisely one player didn't show up! So, although one group started several days later - finally all places have been filled and nobody left out ...

I just found out a benefit of being a TO, a benefit I haven't dreamed of! I'm a slightly lowish middle rank, but highest in my group - and everybody attacks me, from the very beginning. I'm already eliminated in two games and standing as a ...*censored*... in the remaining ones. I should be really MAD!! But I am not . I'm perfectly cool . Why?
Because the tourney goes well ...

And I have one more mistake (only in thinking, thanks God) to report:
My plan was to open home games for every player, including reserves. PM everyone to join only their games. See who's there and THEN make groups.
But it turned out the plan wasn't good enough, since I had no way to change game labels after the games have been made... So I had to do the job in a riskier way. Fortunately, all finished well...