Conquer Club

Just wondering how many people like our foreign policy. Things that need to be considered is oil, monetary hegemony and emerging markets, defense and other national interests, democracy, aid etc...

Since... about the mid 1990s and especially since 2001, US foreign policy has become short-sighted and with poor direction. Too much concern is placed on the perceived distribution of power in the geopolitical realm, economic interests have been conflated with vital interests thus justifying military intervention (instead of trade) over resources like oil, the US has increasingly become too antagonistic, too aggressive. In the long-run, the US needs friends--not brow-beaten, coerced "friends." US nation-building/reconstruction efforts via military intervention is historically inept at promoting democracy, and counter-productive in the long-run.

Give someone the most powerful weapon in the world, and he'll find uses for it. If he isn't held accountable for his consequences, then the unforeseeable consequences are easily disregarded; short-term planning becomes strongly encouraged. That's US foreign policy in a nutshell.

Our foreign policy is probably my least favorite thing about my country. I feel like I have to apologize for it when I am abroad. We haven't been in a single justified war since WWII.

Scott, is there anything in particular on your mind here?

Does anyone have any particular USFP topics which they care to discuss?

It's horrible.
From manifest destiny to the present day and age it's been America first, and f*ck y'all.

Most of the mess in the world today can be traced back to USFP.

Johnny Rockets

Johnny Rockets wrote:It's horrible.
From manifest destiny to the present day and age it's been America first, and f*ck y'all.

Most of the mess in the world today can be traced back to USFP.

Johnny Rockets

I don't think the theory of Manifest Destiny had a great negative effect on the world. Arguably, it had a positive effect on the world as it allowed the United States to become an industrial giant which helped stop the Germans from conquering Europe in two wars.

Perhaps U.S. foreign policy after World War II is what you have an issue with.

And, as an American citizen, I have no particular problem with "America first and f*ck all." The wars in Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, and the policemen type engagements we pursue are, in my opinion, not "America first and f*ck all" which is why I'm not supportive of our foreign policy since World War II.

As a non-American, I have no problem. The mighty use their might to push the feeble around. That's how the world works.

People are just butthurt because they aren't big enough to fight back (except China - watch out for that one, LOL).

The poll seems a bit one sided...

Hey look they just released a video that perfectly summarizes Americas FP:

The Bison King wrote:Our foreign policy is probably my least favorite thing about my country. I feel like I have to apologize for it when I am abroad. We haven't been in a single justified war since WWII.

That's because you're an apologist that doesn't want to see reality for what it is. Consequently, you foster your own national inferiority complex.

Oh boy here he is! America's Imperialistic dominance is being criticized? NEVER FEAR! VOL is here to thump his chest and remind us who is #1

As a vocal critic of USFP, I'll list some things I appreciate to varying degrees so that Johnny R and other US sycophants don't think I'm totally biased:

- Monroe Doctrine
- financial and diplomatic support to Napoleon Bonaparte
- brokering an end to the Russo-Japanese War
- smashing Israel, France and the UK to end their abortive Suez War against Egypt
- hosting the United Nations
- Sweden-US military alliance against the Barbary pirates was probably good
- US Navy slave patrol in the early 1800's
- founding Liberia
- ejection of Spain from Cuba, even if the impetus may not have been altruistic
- ejection of Spain from the Philippines, even if things went sideway afterwards
- early attempts, albeit failures, to liberate Canada from monarchy

saxitoxin wrote:- early attempts, albeit failures, to liberate Canada from monarchy

Self-interested. They just wanted to grab Canada for themselves.

saxitoxin wrote:- financial and diplomatic support to Napoleon Bonaparte

As such an anti-imperialist who apparently wants rid of monarchial control, I find your support for a retard emperor like Napoleon surprising. Particularly as any US funding of Napoleon was only done out of spite for the UK, making the US look like a total little bitch when Napoleon was defeated anyway.

saxitoxin wrote:- smashing Israel, France and the UK to end their abortive Suez War against Egypt

The Egyptians illegally siezed control of the Suez Canal. UK, France and Israel taught them a lesson. What, you support Egypt's grubby little theft?

The Bison King wrote:Hey look they just released a video that perfectly summarizes Americas FP:

Please explain how that video summarizes U.S. foreign policy.

thegreekdog wrote:

The Bison King wrote:Hey look they just released a video that perfectly summarizes Americas FP:

Please explain how that video summarizes U.S. foreign policy.

The US pretty much pisses on other nations sovereignty on a regular basis....

thegreekdog wrote:

Johnny Rockets wrote:It's horrible.
From manifest destiny to the present day and age it's been America first, and f*ck y'all.

Most of the mess in the world today can be traced back to USFP.

Johnny Rockets

I don't think the theory of Manifest Destiny had a great negative effect on the world.

If you ignore Africa, Asia and South America.. sure, you are correct.

BigBallinStalin wrote: Give someone the most powerful weapon in the world, and he'll find uses for it. If he isn't held accountable for his consequences, then the unforeseeable consequences are easily disregarded; short-term planning becomes strongly encouraged. That's US foreign policy in a nutshell.

I agree, but I think you can better summarize it as "as long as US shareholders (more specifically, a select few investors at the top end) can make a profit this year... nothing else really matters". Just gotta keep the bodies from piling up TOO high.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Johnny Rockets wrote:It's horrible.
From manifest destiny to the present day and age it's been America first, and f*ck y'all.

Most of the mess in the world today can be traced back to USFP.

Johnny Rockets

I don't think the theory of Manifest Destiny had a great negative effect on the world.

If you ignore Africa, Asia and South America.. sure, you are correct.

Do you know what Manifest Destiny is?

thegreekdog wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Johnny Rockets wrote:It's horrible.
From manifest destiny to the present day and age it's been America first, and f*ck y'all.

Most of the mess in the world today can be traced back to USFP.

Johnny Rockets

I don't think the theory of Manifest Destiny had a great negative effect on the world.

If you ignore Africa, Asia and South America.. sure, you are correct.

Do you know what Manifest Destiny is?

LOL I do believe my response shows I understand it.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Johnny Rockets wrote:It's horrible.
From manifest destiny to the present day and age it's been America first, and f*ck y'all.

Most of the mess in the world today can be traced back to USFP.

Johnny Rockets

I don't think the theory of Manifest Destiny had a great negative effect on the world.

If you ignore Africa, Asia and South America.. sure, you are correct.

Do you know what Manifest Destiny is?

LOL I do believe my response shows I understand it.

When you take one sentence out of my post, quote it, and say "if you ignore Africa, Asia, and South America," when responding to Manifest Destiny, clearly you either don't understand what Manifest Destiny is (the theory necessitates ignoring all other continents except North America) or you didn't read the rest of my post at all.

Let me put it another way - why was Manifest Destiny bad if we don't ignore Africa, Asia, and South America?

thegreekdog wrote: (the theory necessitates ignoring all other continents except North America) or you didn't read the rest of my post at all.

Exactly my point.

thegreekdog wrote: Let me put it another way - why was Manifest Destiny bad if we don't ignore Africa, Asia, and South America?

That is a different question, but the short answer is that we don't live in isolation. And, the bad deeds we thrust upon others come back to haunt, if not us, our children. In this case, they have been pretty direct. It is a big part of why we have so much terrorism, etc against us.

Also, it was always about justifying making money for US Bigwigs, so neither irrelevant, nor showing that I "don't understand".

Your posts do show a general lack of understanding of our real place in the world, though. (again, we do not live in isolation and pretending we can just do what we will to others or let whatever happen in other countries as long as it doesn't immediately impact us is just plain stupid).

Then again, you could go back and read BBS's post.

You are the most intellectually dishonest poster on this website. Your insistence in changing arguments to fit your desire to be right on everything, as well as your general lack of evidence for any positions has been an ongoing problem. In the past week, you have decided to resort to personal attacks against me, which further emphasizes that you have tenuous arguments at best. Therefore, for the time being, I'm going to stop responding to your posts so that I can avoid frustration that I do not need.

thegreekdog wrote:You are the most intellectually dishonest poster on this website. Your insistence in changing arguments to fit your desire to be right on everything, as well as your general lack of evidence for any positions has been an ongoing problem. In the past week, you have decided to resort to personal attacks against me, which further emphasizes that you have tenuous arguments at best. Therefore, for the time being, I'm going to stop responding to your posts so that I can avoid frustration that I do not need.

LOL.. very rich that you accuse ME of "changing arguments" Any time I refuse to fall into the narrow box you insist is your frame of discussion, you throw out that charge.

The answer IS that Manifest destiny is harmful because we just plain don't live in the world alone. Pretending otherwise, even as an intellectual excercise (which, you really did not do, but that is another story) is just stupid.

Manifest destiny is not the reason the US and Europe dominated. Oppression of those in other countries, which was possible due to some circumstances that can only be labled "fortiutous', along with the Protestant ideal of being able to challenge authority, etc. THOSE are the reason we rose. Manifest destiny, when applied at the forefront (as opposed to being a back-handed justification.. stupid, but not a cause at that point), has directly impeded success, because it allows folks to ramrod not just other countries, but populations within as well.

But, well... that is my whole problem with Liberaterianism in general. It is really about consolidating power in the elite, but with the "justification" that they somehow just deserve to have more money and power becuase they worked harder or made the correct decisions.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Johnny Rockets wrote:It's horrible.
From manifest destiny to the present day and age it's been America first, and f*ck y'all.

Most of the mess in the world today can be traced back to USFP.

Johnny Rockets

I don't think the theory of Manifest Destiny had a great negative effect on the world.

If you ignore Africa, Asia and South America.. sure, you are correct.

IIRC, Manifest Destiny referred to North America ...

The Bison King wrote:Our foreign policy is probably my least favorite thing about my country. I feel like I have to apologize for it when I am abroad.

Exactly how I feel, as well.