Soaps Role Madness! Town Wins!

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Please lets not do claims D1. and even less in this games where could be all array fo roles and even made upt roles.

[Extreme Ways]

Would be a good practice to say in signups whether the game will feature bastard elements tbh

[Loose Canon]

1. I respect Strike's reasoning for a weak (but not pure vanilla) town role not doing a claim D1 and I respect Traf's request for please no claims D1.

I've been told that the whole Werewolf/Mafia thing originated from a Phd Thesis that an informed minority will usually beat an uninformed majority - and therefore getting the majority informed even on just 1 person D1 makes sense to me.

And I'm happy to carry on debating in this game and future ones.

I wasn't planning to make such a claim myself this game but might if I feel the circumstances are right in a future one.

2. I had preplanned not to target either Sonic or Vot early on come what may because they in their own ways make the game more interesting.

That being said I've also got to say that I've got a feeling that Vot is third party in this game.
I've just got an image of Vot trying to plan how to win as 3rd party - I don't know why - except he's not said much yet and what he has said has come over a tad prickly.
Logic says he's more likely to be vanilla town as he would claim to be anyway.
But at the moment my instinct is placing Vot as 3rd party....

[*Pixar*]

1. I respect Strike's reasoning for a weak (but not pure vanilla) town role not doing a claim D1 and I respect Traf's request for please no claims D1.

I've been told that the whole Werewolf/Mafia thing originated from a Phd Thesis that an informed minority will usually beat an uninformed majority - and therefore getting the majority informed even on just 1 person D1 makes sense to me.

And I'm happy to carry on debating in this game and future ones.

I wasn't planning to make such a claim myself this game but might if I feel the circumstances are right in a future one.

2. I had preplanned not to target either Sonic or Vot early on come what may because they in their own ways make the game more interesting.

That being said I've also got to say that I've got a feeling that Vot is third party in this game.
I've just got an image of Vot trying to plan how to win as 3rd party - I don't know why - except he's not said much yet and what he has said has come over a tad prickly.
Logic says he's more likely to be vanilla town as he would claim to be anyway.
But at the moment my instinct is placing Vot as 3rd party....

Usually you are 3rd party

[Silvertop]

Hi everybody, SoN!c is banned for 1 month.. - could be less as its pending but he asked me to post this already to let you guys know why you dont see "sonicnoise or sonicDASH" (whatever that means)..

Kind regards

[pmchugh]

I am not scared of 3 random votes on day 1, especially considering fusi couldn't lynch me with two guilty reads from a cop on me in the last game

I feel like we have a solid town core this game, with multiple drivers of chat and with sonic banned, I don't need to try town/scum read his vibes. Much better start for town this game than last. Strike defending his modding in the previous game feels towny, cause like you are less inclined to pick a fight as wolf day 1, I guess the same applies to vot.

Experience players should always be treated with more suspicion though, as a general rule.

[Loose Canon]

ok as Sonic is in the naughty corner and as the Vigs aren't in the game to vote for Vote Sonic

[Silvertop]

ok as Sonic is in the naughty corner and as the Vigs aren't in the game to vote for Vote Sonic

oh yeah, SoN!c also mentioned that scum and 3P would take advantage of this, voting him, but it would be great scum bait he said.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

1. I respect Strike's reasoning for a weak (but not pure vanilla) town role not doing a claim D1 and I respect Traf's request for please no claims D1.

I've been told that the whole Werewolf/Mafia thing originated from a Phd Thesis that an informed minority will usually beat an uninformed majority - and therefore getting the majority informed even on just 1 person D1 makes sense to me.

And I'm happy to carry on debating in this game and future ones.

I wasn't planning to make such a claim myself this game but might if I feel the circumstances are right in a future one.

2. I had preplanned not to target either Sonic or Vot early on come what may because they in their own ways make the game more interesting.

That being said I've also got to say that I've got a feeling that Vot is third party in this game.
I've just got an image of Vot trying to plan how to win as 3rd party - I don't know why - except he's not said much yet and what he has said has come over a tad prickly.
Logic says he's more likely to be vanilla town as he would claim to be anyway.
But at the moment my instinct is placing Vot as 3rd party....

Except the small group is not totally informed. They don't know town roles, that could screw their knowlodge.

Lets consider this situation. Standar game. 2 Mafia, 1 Cop, 1 Doc, 4 Vanilla.

So everyone claims. Mafia has to claim vanilla ofc. so we know mafia is in those 6 vanilla players.
What will happen at night? Mafia will kill the Doc or the Cop. Lets say the Doc.
So cop got one info - probably cleared a vanilla. Still 2 in 5 to lynch a mafia. So most likely will lynch a town.
Cop Dies next night. No more info and already 2-4 with no more power roles and just 1 town cleared.

Now with power roles is even worse. Mafia could have Framers, Redirectors, Blockers, Impose restrictions, Unstopable Kills, etc. So Now they are in fact totally informed and able to mess with town.

Whereas in the first 2 nights we might be quite clueless as town. But paying attention and using the secret powers mafia does not know can give town the game.

Now I disagree with Vot way of just lying as town. there a few cases where I believe it can be good. And certainly not the way he did it in the last game.

[Extreme Ways]

1. I respect Strike's reasoning for a weak (but not pure vanilla) town role not doing a claim D1 and I respect Traf's request for please no claims D1.

I've been told that the whole Werewolf/Mafia thing originated from a Phd Thesis that an informed minority will usually beat an uninformed majority - and therefore getting the majority informed even on just 1 person D1 makes sense to me.

And I'm happy to carry on debating in this game and future ones.

I wasn't planning to make such a claim myself this game but might if I feel the circumstances are right in a future one.

2. I had preplanned not to target either Sonic or Vot early on come what may because they in their own ways make the game more interesting.

That being said I've also got to say that I've got a feeling that Vot is third party in this game.
I've just got an image of Vot trying to plan how to win as 3rd party - I don't know why - except he's not said much yet and what he has said has come over a tad prickly.
Logic says he's more likely to be vanilla town as he would claim to be anyway.
But at the moment my instinct is placing Vot as 3rd party....

Informed is more about the alignment of players than the roles they carry.

I love playing mountainous setups with 12 town and 3 mafia. No roles other than vanilla.

[Devante]

Wouldn't Sonic just get replaced or mod killed? Seems kinda dumb to waste a potential lynch for town on someone who might be on his way out already

[Loose Canon]

Silvertop - are you sitting/playing for Sonic in this game until he can get back into it?

[Devante]

lol that would be enjoyable. Silvertop posting Sonics shenanigans gives it some new flair

[Loose Canon]

Yeah, would love it if Silvertop could OutSonic Sonic

[Silvertop]

SoN!c got a message he could file a support ticket to reduce the ban and he did. Ticket was filed today so he expects result monday. If it takes longer then 5 days i will come back and propose a mod-kill as he won't be coming back at all then. In the meantime he is crabbait for scum

[Loose Canon]

Silvertop meet Kong. Kong meet Silvertop.

3....2.......1........... FIGHT!

[Votanic]

So everyone claims. Mafia has to claim vanilla ofc. so we know mafia is in those 6 vanilla players.

No, it is blanket assumptions like this that screw players up. Scum does not have to claim vanilla... and town does not have to reveal their true roles.
Usually, early in the game, it is unwise to declare, though late in the game it might be help in some situations. Actually, investigative PR are often the first that should declare ,... but only after they have some intel worth revealing... and preferably if they have some corroborating evidence to back them up...

Now I disagree with Vot way of just lying as town. there a few cases where I believe it can be good. And certainly not the way he did it in the last game.

Blaming that scenario on my refusing to claim is desperate finger-pointing from a bunch of townies that got hoodwinked into a bad lynch and don't want to blame themselves.
Tracker KingM might not have been the creator of the lie, but he was unknowingly passing on a Scum-created lie all the same.
I repeatedly told everyone to unvote so we could slow down and have time to sort the mess out properly, but to no avail, the mindless feeding frenzy was already underway.
DDS and Fusi drove it, Pixar Hammered it, and only one lyncher in the middle of the pack was even scum...
You didn't lynch, Traf, but you acted like you would have liked to if it hadn't rushed by you so fast.
This time, let's try to take the lynches at a slower and more analytical pace.

[Votanic]

SoN!c got a message he could file a support ticket to reduce the ban and he did. Ticket was filed today so he expects result monday. If it takes longer then 5 days i will come back and propose a mod-kill as he won't be coming back at all then. In the meantime he is crabbait for scum

That is a reall shame about Sonic. What did he do to get banned?
I'm not asking to judge him. On the contrary, I will likely fully commiserate.
I know first-hand how draconian and biased CC bans can be.
Come to think about it, I had to deal with a total BS ban from that mod, Dickasaur, at the start of the last Mafia game...
I will not forgive him or CC for letting that happen.
...and that is why I didn't bodyguard anyone the first night of the game. I was in no mood to focus on the game... though I recall I was leaning toward guarding Swang, which wouldn't have had any effect anyway...
So anyway, if any mods (in the CC sense) read this: Stop banning Mafia players!
The Mafia games deserve the same protection from arbitrary and pernicous bans as the Risk-style games do.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Looking for a replacement. If i can't replace him by Saturday/Sunsay, I'll have to mod kill

[strike wolf]

So everyone claims. Mafia has to claim vanilla ofc. so we know mafia is in those 6 vanilla players.

No, it is blanket assumptions like this that screw players up. Scum does not have to claim vanilla... and town does not have to reveal their true roles.
Usually, early in the game, it is unwise to declare, though late in the game it might be help in some situations. Actually, investigative PR are often the first that should declare ,... but only after they have some intel worth revealing... and preferably if they have some corroborating evidence to back them up...

Traf was specifically talking in a vanilla set up like C9 I think it was called where town would mostly be vanilla players. Though point stands that if everyone claims vanilla then mafia could claim the doc or cop and then you get into possible double bluffs where the doc/cop actually was in the game and claimed vanilla. So claiming Vanilla yourself is still safer.

Don't have anything to say about the rest of the post. I mostly agree that we shouldn't rush lynches and beyond that point, it's not really relevant to this game.

[kongming3]

Is there a general hierarchy of which roles are most important to keep alive? Obviously I'd assume everything is always conditional, but if one person dies every night regardless I'd assume some people would have a relatively higher value in surviving.

[kongming3]

And based on that would it make sense for me to play more selfishly or selflessly based on how important it is I feel I stay alive?

[Votanic]

And based on that would it make sense for me to play more selfishly or selflessly based on how important it is I feel I stay alive?

Mafia is a team game, so I wouldn't say play selfishly, (though a lone player third-party basically does that).
If you're not carrying the ball, take the tackles.
Use your mind, vote, PR, and other resources wisely for the good of the team.
For example, many investigative roles try to stay incognito until they have enough valuable intel and then they might blow their own cover to get that information to the town public.
Though some PRs are quite powerful, ultimately there is no strict hierarchy of value. The best strategy is always context-dependent.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Is there a general hierarchy of which roles are most important to keep alive? Obviously I'd assume everything is always conditional, but if one person dies every night regardless I'd assume some people would have a relatively higher value in surviving.

Investigative roles, then protective roles.
But also analytical players with good insight overall


FP by Vot

[Extreme Ways]

And based on that would it make sense for me to play more selfishly or selflessly based on how important it is I feel I stay alive?

This is a tad more about the general game but

Town knows their alignment and knows that it's ok if they die. They are the majority and believe in the things they say, even when wrong. Mafia are a minority and their primary goal is to survive, not to solve the game. Mafia of course lie about their alignment and thus have to fake the things they say in order to survive.

In short, town can easily win even if they die. Mafia tries to survive above all else. When judging someone, it is thus whether not whether they are right or wrong but whether the thought process is real and genuine.

Now this is a role madness game so I dont know what is all available, but some roles are more important than others. Investigative roles are roles which help in determining someone's alignment or otherwise help with information out of the game. A cop sees someone's alignment, a tracker notices whether someone visited etc. Those are generally the strongest, and you have supportive roles to help them such as a doctor or a bodyguard. Utility roles, such as roleblockers, are also incredibly useful.

Hope this helps in general just ask if you have any questions