Not so random maps

[Woodruff]

great idee, but I would like more the other way around, you chose 2-20 maps and there is one pick from

If you're going to do that, why even bother with randomization? It would seem at those numbers you're just sticking with a particular map-style anyway.

[Woodruff]

i get that, but if there are exclusions, it's just not random.

it's not supposed to be totally random. Drawing an automatic 40+ round game in a tournament on Hive or even Das Schloss is just not helpful. Even people (particularly freemies) in public games ought to have the option of playing a random map (fun) without drawing a game that lasts a few months or more (not fun)

I totally agree with not counting it toward a possible random medal, but drawing Hive is killer (the other option is to remove Hive )

I've got Hive going in my random tourney. And it's no-spoils adjacent. <smile>

[jrh_cardinal]

i get that, but if there are exclusions, it's just not random.

it's not supposed to be totally random. Drawing an automatic 40+ round game in a tournament on Hive or even Das Schloss is just not helpful. Even people (particularly freemies) in public games ought to have the option of playing a random map (fun) without drawing a game that lasts a few months or more (not fun)

I totally agree with not counting it toward a possible random medal, but drawing Hive is killer (the other option is to remove Hive )

I've got Hive going in my random tourney. And it's no-spoils adjacent. <smile>

see, and that tournament is going to be delayed for months unless the Hive game ends up not mattering
edit- assuming it's not 1v1 or teams, then the tourney will just be delayed a little

[rdsrds2120]

i get that, but if there are exclusions, it's just not random.

It would be random. Taking out one map, per say, doesn't mean that the frequency of a different map occurring increases or decreases.

[Woodruff]

i get that, but if there are exclusions, it's just not random.

It would be random. Taking out one map, per say, doesn't mean that the frequency of a different map occurring increases or decreases.

Well...actually, it does increase the frequency of every other map. But I understand what you're trying to say.

[drunkmonkey]

As long as the exclusions are visible before you join the game, I don't see why any limit is necessary.

[squishyg]

i just got my 5 on hive and am feeling much more friendly towards it. don't put the hive in the map ghetto! include all maps in random! otherwise Queen Herpes will think of holidays for all of them and insist we only play a map 1.5 times a year.

[TheForgivenOne]

i just got my 5 on hive and am feeling much more friendly towards it. don't put the hive in the map ghetto! include all maps in random! otherwise Queen Herpes will think of holidays for all of them and insist we only play a map 1.5 times a year.

They aren't saying to boot hive out of random all together. They are asking if you can create a type of random map option, where you can exclude certain maps from it.

Do you really think it's the best to have Hive come up in a tournament, where the settings are so horrible that it takes 6 months to complete the game?

[Lindax]

Do I need to do something with this?

Lx

[Woodruff]

They aren't saying to boot hive out of random all together. They are asking if you can create a type of random map option, where you can exclude certain maps from it.
Do you really think it's the best to have Hive come up in a tournament, where the settings are so horrible that it takes 6 months to complete the game?

Well, you weren't asking ME, but I would say yes. (See my latest tournament. <smile> Don't want it to hit Hive with those settings, then don't use those settings with "random".

That being said, I'm not against this suggestion, as long as it's implemented with some moderation and intelligence. I DON'T think it should be used for wholesale excluding, because then certain individuals who shall remain nameless will use it in a not-really-random-at-all way.

[jmyork82]

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but what if you give the person the option to choose which maps are to be selected at random. Lets say you want to pick a particular type of map for your random map selection. This could be helpful for themed tournements. Lets say you want the random selection to be from a choice of 20 maps you have picked. that way you can have a random any or a random select.

[TheForgivenOne]

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but what if you give the person the option to choose which maps are to be selected at random. Lets say you want to pick a particular type of map for your random map selection. This could be helpful for themed tournements. Lets say you want the random selection to be from a choice of 20 maps you have picked. that way you can have a random any or a random select.

Yes, this has been mentioned many of times, but this removes an essence of "random". This would just encourage players to only ever pick random to get a random choice out of those few maps.

The original suggestion was asking to remove a very few amount of maps, because they are too big/small. And I think this is the best bet. We are still figuring out what is currently the max amount of "exclusions" we should allow.

[Woodruff]

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but what if you give the person the option to choose which maps are to be selected at random. Lets say you want to pick a particular type of map for your random map selection. This could be helpful for themed tournements. Lets say you want the random selection to be from a choice of 20 maps you have picked. that way you can have a random any or a random select.

I see what you're getting at...yet this can easily be handled by any number of other methods, be it a die-roll (this is how I used to do it for my tournaments before "random map" was implemented here) or by using a site like random.org to set the randomness of the maps.

[L M S]

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but what if you give the person the option to choose which maps are to be selected at random. Lets say you want to pick a particular type of map for your random map selection. This could be helpful for themed tournements. Lets say you want the random selection to be from a choice of 20 maps you have picked. that way you can have a random any or a random select.

Yes, this has been mentioned many of times, but this removes an essence of "random". This would just encourage players to only ever pick random to get a random choice out of those few maps.

The original suggestion was asking to remove a very few amount of maps, because they are too big/small. And I think this is the best bet. We are still figuring out what is currently the max amount of "exclusions" we should allow.

Just one, the Hive.

[drunkmonkey]

I still don't get the need to preserve the "essence of random" in every game. Why not have two options: "Random" and "Limited Random". That way it's clear which is the true random and which has exclusions.

Yes, it's possible to use random.org to choose from a limited number of maps. But why not just make it available through the options, if we're already adding the functionality.

[SirSebstar]

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but what if you give the person the option to choose which maps are to be selected at random. Lets say you want to pick a particular type of map for your random map selection. This could be helpful for themed tournements. Lets say you want the random selection to be from a choice of 20 maps you have picked. that way you can have a random any or a random select.

this functionality can be set up offsite.. in other words, you could manualy make them randoms..
i would be interrested in being able to select/deselect a few maps and then make it random from there on out.

[jmyork82]

alright, have you ever played super smash brothers? if you have, then you remember having the choice of what items randomly dropped during the fight. some items maybe you felt were useless or annoying or cheap or whatever. but sometimes you want all items to be dropped, period, just cause you want to mix it up.

the point im trying to make is It should be up to the host of the game to decide what he may or may not want as a result of random. excluding a couple of maps for a certain couple of people may not be the case for others, i like the hive.

If a player is truely concered about the hive being a random map, he can uncheck it. you cant decide for players what they want out of random. let them decide. I would be more inclinded to use random if i had a say in what the choices were. if i chose random and got poison rome or waterloo, i would be pissed, but im not gonna ask that to be taken out for other players.

having a choice would also benifit for tourney games in the idea that, maybe you have a WWII theme (which is a popular themed map) you could set those maps for random.

you could also set it for maps that have bases like fuedal. You will actually open up more opions by having more freedom with random as opposed to limiting it by excluding certain maps. Random can still be random but just more versitile.

[jmyork82]

ah, i just picked up that i was straing from the topic, people want maps to be removed and you mods are saying no it defeats random and if you are that concernered use random.org i get it, and i agree, but to stay with, random.org could be a hastle and the site (CC) could make it easier on users by making a selectable random by setting up the option which would also appease the people who want to exclude maps. It would help everybody...should i start a new thread?

[SirSebstar]

you could, but as i got it, your function would also be under this one.. unless i am wrong and then yes go ahead.

[Woodruff]

you could, but as i got it, your function would also be under this one.. unless i am wrong and then yes go ahead.

That's a definite maybe. <grin>

[jmyork82]

I think lindax was onto something and maybe didnt realize it. i think i could present a more complete idea that is a little proactive

[Lindax]

I think lindax was onto something and maybe didnt realize it. i think i could present a more complete idea that is a little proactive

Let's hear it.

Lx

[JoshyBoy]

I do not support the idea of any map being excluded from the random map setting. If you choose a random map, you should know what you are letting yourself in for... even if that means getting the dreaded hive.

Or, as a friend of mine put it....

nononononono!! random has to kept just that otherwise there is no victory in being a random map champ. i love QH's suggestions in the other thread and those are the ones that should be implemented immediately. I hate hive too, but if i get it in random, so be it! keep random random!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheForgivenOne]

I do not support the idea of any map being excluded from the random map setting. If you choose a random map, you should know what you are letting yourself in for... even if that means getting the dreaded hive.

Or, as a friend of mine put it....

nononononono!! random has to kept just that otherwise there is no victory in being a random map champ. i love QH's suggestions in the other thread and those are the ones that should be implemented immediately. I hate hive too, but if i get it in random, so be it! keep random random!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But the thing is, this REALLY locks up tournaments, turning it from a fun, 4 month lasting tournament or so, into a tournament that goes 10+ months because they got a map that takes 8 months to play.

You are basically saying to anyone that plays Speed games "Well, screw you buddies, if you want Random, deal with the hive"

[JoshyBoy]

That's no excuse. In tournaments, you can create tie-breakers, scrap the game in the event that that one map turns up, etc. No excuse.

You choose to play with random map settings, your choice. If that means you get Hive, tough.