2011: The Year for Gay Rights?

[PLAYER57832]

Player, why are you calling me names? That's really hurtful.

Names? When you choose to be a good debater, you are a good one. When you choose to be a troll, you are a decent one of those as well.... I believe that is a compliment, not an insult.

[pimpdave]

Okay, hugs.

[BigBallinStalin]

Less love, and more bundles of sticks ITT please.

[Symmetry]

Less love, and more bundles of sticks ITT please.

Agreed, what's your opinion on the issue? Do you think that gay rights took a turning point last year?

[pimpdave]

Why do gay people get so bent out of shape over being denied the opportunity to donate blood? They are at a significantly statistically higher risk of AIDS/ HIV than heterosexual people.

Why do people flip out and call that a civil right? I don't see any civil rights activism from people sharing needles regarding blood donation. Honest question, shouldn't gays back off on that "issue"?

[Symmetry]

Why do gay people get so bent out of shape over being denied the opportunity to donate blood? They are at a significantly statistically higher risk of AIDS/ HIV than heterosexual people.

Why do people flip out and call that a civil right? I don't see any civil rights activism from people sharing needles regarding blood donation. Honest question, shouldn't gays back off on that "issue"?

Possibly because a person's sexual orientation ain't a great reason to call them diseased. The issue is transmission of HIV on that one, and how to manage it. I think it was a valid argument back almost 30 years ago, but it isn't all that valid now.

[saxitoxin]

Is it true that a gay man is 5 times more likely to be convicted of sexual assault on a minor than a heterosexual man? Scary.

I've not heard this, however - and this was discussed at length in a different thread - it is true that homosexual males are 11 times more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexual males (similar trends are not present among homosexual females). That said, pedophilia as it is used in this study refers to a psychiatric disorder, not a criminal statute, and no data concerning whether or not the men actioned their impulses was included. Also, 11x still puts pedophiles in a small minority of the overall homosexual community. So this shouldn't be taken to suggest Symmetry or anyone else is a de facto pedophile.

No, the link you provided actually doesn't say that. It says that, among pedophiles, homosexual pedophilia is more common. One issue is, as noted above, the definition. Heterosexuals attracted to children are more often distinguished from adult heterosexuality, whereas pedophilic homosexuals are often combined, statistically, under the term "homosexual".

No, it doesn't say that.

However you're correct in that I should have said homosexuals tend to ephebophilia rather than pedophilia. The word ephebophilia tends to create some confusion, however; everyone knows what pedophilia means.

[PLAYER57832]

Is it true that a gay man is 5 times more likely to be convicted of sexual assault on a minor than a heterosexual man? Scary.

I've not heard this, however - and this was discussed at length in a different thread - it is true that homosexual males are 11 times more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexual males (similar trends are not present among homosexual females). That said, pedophilia as it is used in this study refers to a psychiatric disorder, not a criminal statute, and no data concerning whether or not the men actioned their impulses was included. Also, 11x still puts pedophiles in a small minority of the overall homosexual community. So this shouldn't be taken to suggest Symmetry or anyone else is a de facto pedophile.

No, the link you provided actually doesn't say that. It says that, among pedophiles, homosexual pedophilia is more common. One issue is, as noted above, the definition. Heterosexuals attracted to children are more often distinguished from adult heterosexuality, whereas pedophilic homosexuals are often combined, statistically, under the term "homosexual".

No, it doesn't say that.

However you're correct in that I should have said homosexuals tend to ephebophilia rather than pedophilia. The word ephebophilia tends to create some confusion, however; everyone knows what pedophilia means.

Still not correct, but anyway.

[saxitoxin]

Is it true that a gay man is 5 times more likely to be convicted of sexual assault on a minor than a heterosexual man? Scary.

I've not heard this, however - and this was discussed at length in a different thread - it is true that homosexual males are 11 times more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexual males (similar trends are not present among homosexual females). That said, pedophilia as it is used in this study refers to a psychiatric disorder, not a criminal statute, and no data concerning whether or not the men actioned their impulses was included. Also, 11x still puts pedophiles in a small minority of the overall homosexual community. So this shouldn't be taken to suggest Symmetry or anyone else is a de facto pedophile.

No, the link you provided actually doesn't say that. It says that, among pedophiles, homosexual pedophilia is more common. One issue is, as noted above, the definition. Heterosexuals attracted to children are more often distinguished from adult heterosexuality, whereas pedophilic homosexuals are often combined, statistically, under the term "homosexual".

No, it doesn't say that.

However you're correct in that I should have said homosexuals tend to ephebophilia rather than pedophilia. The word ephebophilia tends to create some confusion, however; everyone knows what pedophilia means.

Still not correct, but anyway.

Player declared it, so shall it be.

[Symmetry]

So, after much argument, we're basically at the opinion that pedophilia is wrong, no matter the gender of the criminal or victim? It is equally wrong in those terms?

[saxitoxin]

So, after much argument, we're basically at the opinion that pedophilia is wrong ...

... and that society should work to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, rather than just punish offenders. And that, in order to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, free and uninhibited scientific inquiry into any topic - including homosexuality - must be allowed. And that, the medical study of homosexuality is not currently allowed.

[Symmetry]

So, after much argument, we're basically at the opinion that pedophilia is wrong ...

... and that society should work to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, rather than just punish offenders. And that, in order to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, free and uninhibited scientific inquiry into any topic - including homosexuality - must be allowed. And that, the medical study of homosexuality is not currently allowed.

Why would medical study of be homosexuals be allowed or disallowed?

[saxitoxin]

So, after much argument, we're basically at the opinion that pedophilia is wrong ...

... and that society should work to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, rather than just punish offenders. And that, in order to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, free and uninhibited scientific inquiry into any topic - including homosexuality - must be allowed. And that, the medical study of homosexuality is not currently allowed.

Why would medical study of be homosexuals be allowed or disallowed?

Why didn't Enron want the SEC to investigate?

[Symmetry]

So, after much argument, we're basically at the opinion that pedophilia is wrong ...

... and that society should work to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, rather than just punish offenders. And that, in order to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, free and uninhibited scientific inquiry into any topic - including homosexuality - must be allowed. And that, the medical study of homosexuality is not currently allowed.

Why would medical study of be homosexuals be allowed or disallowed?

Why didn't Enron want the SEC to investigate?

What do you mean?

[barackattack]

It's because gay people are allowed to play the 'victimisation' card way too often.

>Gay people are statistically more likely to have HIV. They therefore can't donate blood.
>Gay people cry homophobia.
>Everyone goes 'whoops aren't we nasty, okay go ahead'.

I get excluded from some aspects of culture or society based on the fact I'm white, male or middle class, for reasons far more unfair than statistical fact. But you don't hear me crying about it.

(This isn't restricted to gay people, I acknowledge. Anyone who isn't a white, middle class male seems to think it's perfectly fair to play the 'discrimination' card whenever something doesn't go their way. 'It's because I'm black'. 'It's because I'm a woman'. 'It's because I'm working class'. Lame.)

[Symmetry]

It's because gay people are allowed to play the 'victimisation' card way too often.

>Gay people are statistically more likely to have HIV. They therefore can't donate blood.
>Gay people cry homophobia.
>Everyone goes 'whoops aren't we nasty, okay go ahead'.

I get excluded from some aspects of culture or society based on the fact I'm white, male or middle class, for reasons far more unfair than statistical fact. But you don't hear me crying about it.

(This isn't restricted to gay people, I acknowledge. Anyone who isn't a white, middle class male seems to think it's perfectly fair to play the 'discrimination' card whenever something doesn't go their way. 'It's because I'm black'. 'It's because I'm a woman'. 'It's because I'm working class'. Lame.)

Quite a pity party you're having for yourself there. What's up?

[Aradhus]

So, after much argument, we're basically at the opinion that pedophilia is wrong ...

... and that society should work to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, rather than just punish offenders. And that, in order to prevent the sexual abuse of minors, free and uninhibited scientific inquiry into any topic - including homosexuality - must be allowed. And that, the medical study of homosexuality is not currently allowed.

Why would medical study of be homosexuals be allowed or disallowed?

Why didn't Enron want the SEC to investigate?

Because they were guilty of fraud. Do homosexuals have a big secret we don't know about?

[barackattack]

Do homosexuals have a big secret we don't know about?

Oh, but how would we know if they did?

Such a pickle.

[Skittles!]

For Australia, 2011 was truly the year for gay rights.. Every state Labor party pushed through marriage equality, and even Federal Labor (the ruling party atm in a minority gov.) backs marriage equality, but with a conscience vote, so will ultimately fail.

Apart from the whole Uganda thing, surely it was a good year for gay activists?

P.s. barackattack, i agree homosexuals use victimisation card too often... but for obvious reasons. They are victimised, maybe not out in public but there are still many many people distrusting males and females purely because of their sexual preference.

[PLAYER57832]

It's because gay people are allowed to play the 'victimisation' card way too often.

>Gay people are statistically more likely to have HIV. They therefore can't donate blood.

This is plain untrue. No one is actually "forbidden" from donating, though some people are asked to refrain. People, anyone, who admit to having unprotected sex with multiple partners, etc, they are asked to decline to donate.. along with those who have recently visited Africa, certain other regions with heavy malaria or other blood-born illnesses.

[pimpdave]

Anyone who has visited England for a period exceeding three months, or lived there during a set period of time. Due to mad cow.

Anyone who's had homosexual sex in the last seven years. Anyone who's paid for sex or had sex for pay or for drugs, or shared needles.

I give blood every 58 days. I might be wrong on the specifics of those questions though, because at this point I've more memorized which boxes to fill in rather than reading the questions carefully. Every time I travel, I read that part carefully, but I really don't need to read the parts about needle sharing or sex with men thing ever again, just fill in the bubbles.

But yeah, homosexuals really shouldn't be so bent out of shape about it. It's not a goddamn civil right, it's a matter of public health. I'm not saying there's anything morally wrong with butt sex between men (I honestly don't give a shit), but it's a risky behavior. Don't get your feelings all hurt about it, just acknowledge it and move on. People who regularly go sky diving pay more for life insurance. They have yet to start a civil rights movements over it.



EDIT: One of my best friend's mom died from AIDS due to an infected homosexual who gave blood. She was a real nice lady. I'd rather she still be around than some people have their precious feelings hurt.

[PLAYER57832]

Anyone who has visited England for a period exceeding three months, or lived there during a set period of time. Due to mad cow.

Anyone who's had homosexual sex in the last seven years. Anyone who's paid for sex or had sex for pay or for drugs, or shared needles.

I give blood every 58 days. I might be wrong on the specifics of those questions though, because at this point I've more memorized which boxes to fill in rather than reading the questions carefully. Every time I travel, I read that part carefully, but I really don't need to read the parts about needle sharing or sex with men thing ever again, just fill in the bubbles.

But yeah, homosexuals really shouldn't be so bent out of shape about it. It's not a goddamn civil right, it's a matter of public health. I'm not saying there's anything morally wrong with butt sex between men (I honestly don't give a shit), but it's a risky behavior. Don't get your feelings all hurt about it, just acknowledge it and move on. People who regularly go sky diving pay more for life insurance. They have yet to start a civil rights movements over it.



EDIT: One of my best friend's mom died from AIDS due to an infected homosexual who gave blood. She was a real nice lady. I'd rather she still be around than some people have their precious feelings hurt.

And, as I noted, these are voluntary questions asked by essentially private entities. There is no rule oppressing homosexuals. There is a medical request that folks can honor or ignore.

AND... the blood gets tested because the donation centers know full well these questions are not always answered truthfully. This is much more of a problem in paid donation centers than volunteer ones.

[BigBallinStalin]

Why is the blood donation from gays an issue?


When anyone donates blood, aren't they suppose to have some kind of papers to prove that they have clean blood?

And/or don't the hospitals test the blood afterwards?

[BigBallinStalin]

Less love, and more bundles of sticks ITT please.

Agreed, what's your opinion on the issue? Do you think that gay rights took a turning point last year?

A heartfelt campaign against the bullying of homosexuals in schools, recognition of civil unions and marriages, foreign policies that acknowledge human rights abuses against gay men and women, DADT repealed in the most powerful military force in the world, a growing sense that the next generation is largely in support of equal rights for homosexuals, combined with a lessening of moral authority from churches and politicians that have been rocked by sexual scandals...

To me, the temporary liberation of hundreds of millions of people from 50+ year-old autocracies is much bigger than some ad campaigns, the lip service paid by foreign policy-makers, the repeal of DADT, and the vague feeling of overall, increasing tolerance toward gays.

When they're covered under marriage laws, then that would be something. The rest is just... meh.

[PLAYER57832]

Why is the blood donation from gays an issue?


When anyone donates blood, aren't they suppose to have some kind of papers to prove that they have clean blood?

Not in the US. There is a list of voluntary questions.

And/or don't the hospitals test the blood afterwards?

Yes, but some of the more extensive testing cannot always be completed prior to the use of the blood. This is one reason why directed (friends/relatives with like blood donate to a specific person) and auto-donations (you donate your own blood in advance.. often possible for elective surgaries) are suggested when its practical.