Double Turns and Freestyle Turn Holding

[Strife]

Merged:

Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns
Ending fake double turns
Ending Turns in Freestyle
Problem with freestyle (AND A SOLUTION)

And marked as done.

Hey, is this one down two to go, or the only big update?

[cramill]

Hooray for a solution! (Closing the loophole!)

[alster]

Concise description:

• Reinstate game option “Freestyle - Allow Double Turns”.

Specifics:
With the newly implemented “Freestyle improved / Freestyle Double-Turn "Loophole" is Closed” change to the game engine, see:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... =1&t=95367

I suggest that the old game option “Allow Double Turns” is reinstated, see:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 1&t=29#p71
and (for it’s partial and full removal):
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 319#p15667
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 57&start=0

The removal was justified with:

Freestyle Simplified:
Speaking of freestyle, I never liked the complication of having two types (double turns / no double turns). Freestyle (double turns) is not so popular and is not newbie-friendly or balanced in my opinion. Freestyle (no double turns) is misleading because you can pull a "fake double turn" by finishing your turn just before the 24 hours are up and playing again in the next round. Solution: drop Freestyle (double turns) and rename Freestyle (no double turns) to plain old Freestyle. This game type is now balanced and follows the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid!).

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
With the fine-tuning and, at least what I assume/believe, the final and definite game engine coding of the freestyle option, bringing back the “Freestyle - Allow Double Turns” setting would be a nice compliment to the multitude of game options we can indulge in at CC. This is an obvious benefit I would think (options increases choice and the range of target audience, long-run it’s beneficial to the site as it increases life length and the number of paying customers).

But what about the issues prompting it to be removed in the first place? Well, I believe that they are simply not there anymore for the following reasons.

1. With the latest game engine change, a “Freestyle (no double turns)” option is no longer misleading as no one can, by taking advantage of the game engine, pull a double turn.

2. A lot of water has flowed under the bridges since Jul 2006 and I’m sure that a “Freestyle (double turns)” option would be reasonably popular if re-implemented. This as the number of players have risen and with the end of de facto double turns and back-to-back turns as freestyle strategies (due to game engine changes), what is left of original freestyle is, well, not what it used to be at least. This option will find its audience among part of the crowd who enjoy playing freestyle.

3. Any issues of “newbie-friendliness” or not is partly guaranteed by the fact that the instructions page and option will actually mean what they read. In addition, to prevent farming and to keep new players from having a bad first encounter, new players could nowadays simply be blocked from this option (as they are with respect to e.g. team games, certain maps etc.).

As a final note:
This is not a discussion about the horrors of double turns. That discussion has ended I would think. This is a suggestion for a clearly defined game option. If you don’t like it, state so but don’t come whining about how unfair it is with double turns (that isn’t really relevant).

[alex951]

i think there should be a option whether or not to be able to use double turns

[demonfork]

I love this idea. With it all of the little bitches can play the sequential version of freestyle and all of the men can play the true version.

[Strife]

Sugs forum is that-away man!

[Crazyirishman]

I always just paid attention to my game to make sure I never got double turned, it wasn't very difficult.

[demonfork]

Hooray for a solution! (Closing the loophole!)

Coming from a guy who has played an entire four (4) freestyle 1v1's.

These are exactly the kind of players that whined and bitched loud enough to finally ruin freestyle. It wasn't from those that played and enjoyed freestyle.

[alex951]

majority rule minority rights, so because a lot of ppl bitch about double turns us how enjoy it can use it anymore, i most now just play doodle assassin speed game and the no double turn fucks the game play up for everyone

[owenshooter]

majority rule minority rights, so because a lot of ppl bitch about double turns us how enjoy it can use it anymore, i most now just play doodle assassin speed game and the no double turn fucks the game play up for everyone

yeah, not being able to cheat really sucks... perhaps while you are waiting for those turns to come around, you can study some grammar and other basic language rules.. that way, us how enjoy the forums can use it anymore easily...-0

[demonfork]

majority rule minority rights, so because a lot of ppl bitch about double turns us how enjoy it can use it anymore, i most now just play doodle assassin speed game and the no double turn fucks the game play up for everyone

yeah, not being able to cheat really sucks... perhaps while you are waiting for those turns to come around, you can study some grammar and other basic language rules.. that way, us how enjoy the forums can use it anymore easily...-0

Owen, you have played SIX (6) total freestyle games in the entire history of your games played. You don't have clue when it comes to freestyle, you are not a credible source for determining what is and is not cheating in freestyle.

[john9blue]

Owen, you have played SIX (6) total freestyle games in the entire history of your games played. You don't have clue when it comes to freestyle, you are not a credible source for determining what is and is not cheating in freestyle.

Yeah owen, how dare you stop playing a game setting that you hate?!

[sully800]

Now let's all stay away from personal attacks and discuss the issue at hand, eh?

As someone who has played 134 freestyle games (17% of total) I am very happy with the changes. As you probably know we used to have games in which double turns were allowed and games in which they were not. It was decided that this was an unnecessary option and encouraged "unfair" tactics and made the game less about the casual player and more about the serious gamer. So the double turns were eliminated, and yet this loophole remained. Now I understand that it wasn't cheating, but using the loophole was clearly taking advantage of players who did not know about it, and this went against the principle of eliminating the option of double turns. This was all made worse when objective games appeared because in those cases the double turn ensures that you win, and there is no way the opponent can stop you, even if they are there exactly when time runs out. That is what made the setting very unfair and is why there was such large support for a fix to the loophole. So now speed freestyle games are very different, and I know that will take some getting used to, but it's hard to argue that they aren't more fair.

[sully800]

Hey, is this one down two to go, or the only big update?

Well I hope it is not the only thing! Unfortunately we don't get briefed on exactly what will be added because it's hard to know how difficult the coding will be, but I'm definitely hoping we will see more additions from this list: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 11&start=0

[cramill]

Hooray for a solution! (Closing the loophole!)

Coming from a guy who has played an entire four (4) freestyle 1v1's.

These are exactly the kind of players that whined and bitched loud enough to finally ruin freestyle. It wasn't from those that played and enjoyed freestyle.

Yes, but I played many more doubles freestyle games. Me and my buddy Metalmesh were pretty good at those.

[sully800]

I love this idea. With it all of the little bitches can play the sequential version of freestyle and all of the men can play the true version.

If you want to have a suggestion be looked at please add to said suggestion in a reasonable manner. Alstergren presented a reasoned point of view, while your mocking attitude adds nothing and is not welcome.

I think it is not a bad idea to allow a full double turn version of freestyle, with the condition that new recruits are not allowed to play it. The structure for this is already in place so it might be a good way to allow double turns while protecting new recruits from abuse.

[NickPapagiorgio]

I’m sure that a “Freestyle (double turns)” option would be reasonably popular if re-implemented.

Those are the only types of games I play. Considering every game I start is usually filled in under 3 hours, well, that should be enough to prove it.

I am highly pissed at whatever happened to the Freestyle gaming options. Case in point: I have a game open right now where I have eliminated 3 of the other 4 players.

The person still active missed his turn, so now I'm stuck in that game, waiting...well, 48 hours now I suppose, unless he decides to come back and play.

So go back to the last settings or I will join the bandwagon of people that will not renew their membership. I will also take down all of the Conquer Club graphics I've put up pimping the site out.

[alex951]

i agree with the double turn option, i like to play doodle assassin speed games and the no double turn messes the play really bad, everyone that plays those game expect the double turn like they expect tax's

[Bones2484]

I’m sure that a “Freestyle (double turns)” option would be reasonably popular if re-implemented.

Those are the only types of games I play. Considering every game I start is usually filled in under 3 hours, well, that should be enough to prove it.

I am highly pissed at whatever happened to the Freestyle gaming options. Case in point: I have a game open right now where I have eliminated 3 of the other 4 players.

The person still active missed his turn, so now I'm stuck in that game, waiting...well, 48 hours now I suppose, unless he decides to come back and play.

So go back to the last settings or I will join the bandwagon of people that will not renew their membership. I will also take down all of the Conquer Club graphics I've put up pimping the site out.

This is not what is meant by "double turn".

[alster]

I think this deserves a bump.

[40kguy]

i agree with the double turn option, i like to play doodle assassin speed games and the no double turn messes the play really bad, everyone that plays those game expect the double turn like they expect tax's

i have to agree with you on that one.

[darkangelsguy205]

yes they should

[sully800]

I'm not sure anyone in this thread besides alstergren actually understands the idea.

Just to clarify, this suggestion is for double turns allowed games. No loophole, so you don't have to run out of time or miss a card. You just finish one round and then you can start the next round. If you all understood that already, then pardon me, I just wanted to make it clear.

[alex951]

thanks for clarify sully, i read the tread and still think its a good idea. guess i'm too new to know what he was taking about specially with the loop hole this just happening

[alex951]

majority rule minority rights, so because a lot of ppl bitch about double turns us how enjoy it can use it anymore, i most now just play doodle assassin speed game and the no double turn fucks the game play up for everyone

yeah, not being able to cheat really sucks... perhaps while you are waiting for those turns to come around, you can study some grammar and other basic language rules.. that way, us how enjoy the forums can use it anymore easily...-0

f*** you, eat a d*** b****. sorry i was typing fast and didn't read over what i wrote. the double turn was a big part of doodle assassin speed games, everyone expected it and everyone used it. the double turn just became part of freestyle. plus you have never played one of those game so how do you know what your taking about? its like a little kid telling his mom that he doesn't like something with out trying it.