Should we even talk about this?

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PLAYER57832
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by PLAYER57832 »

happy harry wrote:I have a distinct feeling of deja-vu here.

Anyhow, I will continue.

The siole reason for the domination, advanced thinking, hard working in built mentality of the north european peoples, was due to the hardships that were faced during their expansion into the north of europe.#
I see, so this explains why Africa, Asia..even south America, all had quite advanced civilizations with writing, prose, architecture, etc. LONG before northern Europeans had any such thing?
happy harry wrote: It is laughable that you have this idea that the cold, biting tundra of northern europe somehow had "more animals to domesticate"...as opposed to the warmer climates of africa, for instance.

What you fail to comprehend, is that there were no native crops in northern europe....corn ( wheat) was originally an unpalatable crop from the asian peninsula...this had been nurtured by the northern europeans into being an edible crop, to which we built a tolerance for, as with cows milk, too.
Well.. corn was not in Africa, and wheat was an edible crop long before Europeans came into real history. Barley and even Rye were used long before wheat was developed to exist in most of Europe.

Wheat's ancestor actually came from Africa. The first cultivated areas were along the Nile River delta (though some argue for Asian origins and a few even argue for American or multiple origins). Corn was developed independently in the Americas, as were several other grains (quinoa, amaranth, etc.)
happy harry wrote: See, the reason why the white race has a higher level of industrious thought, is that the long baron winters, and lack of native wildlife readily available, caused said peoples to have to develop a strong sense of community, and also overcome far greater challenges, than, say africans, who had walking meals on their doorsteps, for whenever they could be assed to throw a spear.
India, China, ancient Egypt, Babylon, etc. ... you conveniently ignore their long and rich histories, all while Europeans were still living in stick dwellings.

In fact, the long winters, etc actually held back Europe for a long time. That is why other cultures had such predominance for so long.
happy harry wrote: This is one of the reasons why there is wide-famine issues within africa, as they just ate, and ate without any foresight for future production. They have not got the in-built tools to cope with forward thinking, or overcoming challenges...It's pretty simple.. white people had challenges = bigger brains.
Had I read this garbage first, I probably would not have deigned to answer.

Still, assuming you have some brains. The REAL truth is that famine in Africa has to do with European colonization and monetary domination policies, alongwith changes in climate, not "lack of foresight". In fact, each of those civilizations you deride survived quite successfully without fouling their waters, killing off large populations of animals, etc... While Europeans have managed in a bare 300 years of dominance to destroy much of the world. Who, exactly, really lacks foresight? In fact Europeans are now going back and trying to learn from those "stupid, backward" native populations for truly sustainable ways to do agriculture, etc.
happy harry wrote:"Give a black man a fish,. he eats for a day...give him a fishing rod, he tries to attack someone with it, and steal their fish"
[/quote][/quote]
go talk to your KKK buddies. They are the only idiots that could possibly believe the garbage you wrote.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by pimpdave »

White guys have names like Lenny, whereas black guys have names like Carl.

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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Frigidus »

PLAYER57832 wrote:
happy harry wrote:I have a distinct feeling of deja-vu here.

Anyhow, I will continue.

The siole reason for the domination, advanced thinking, hard working in built mentality of the north european peoples, was due to the hardships that were faced during their expansion into the north of europe.#
I see, so this explains why Africa, Asia..even south America, all had quite advanced civilizations with writing, prose, architecture, etc. LONG before northern Europeans had any such thing?
happy harry wrote: It is laughable that you have this idea that the cold, biting tundra of northern europe somehow had "more animals to domesticate"...as opposed to the warmer climates of africa, for instance.

What you fail to comprehend, is that there were no native crops in northern europe....corn ( wheat) was originally an unpalatable crop from the asian peninsula...this had been nurtured by the northern europeans into being an edible crop, to which we built a tolerance for, as with cows milk, too.
Well.. corn was not in Africa, and wheat was an edible crop long before Europeans came into real history. Barley and even Rye were used long before wheat was developed to exist in most of Europe.

Wheat's ancestor actually came from Africa. The first cultivated areas were along the Nile River delta (though some argue for Asian origins and a few even argue for American or multiple origins). Corn was developed independently in the Americas, as were several other grains (quinoa, amaranth, etc.)
happy harry wrote: See, the reason why the white race has a higher level of industrious thought, is that the long baron winters, and lack of native wildlife readily available, caused said peoples to have to develop a strong sense of community, and also overcome far greater challenges, than, say africans, who had walking meals on their doorsteps, for whenever they could be assed to throw a spear.
India, China, ancient Egypt, Babylon, etc. ... you conveniently ignore their long and rich histories, all while Europeans were still living in stick dwellings.

In fact, the long winters, etc actually held back Europe for a long time. That is why other cultures had such predominance for so long.
happy harry wrote: This is one of the reasons why there is wide-famine issues within africa, as they just ate, and ate without any foresight for future production. They have not got the in-built tools to cope with forward thinking, or overcoming challenges...It's pretty simple.. white people had challenges = bigger brains.
Had I read this garbage first, I probably would not have deigned to answer.

Still, assuming you have some brains. The REAL truth is that famine in Africa has to do with European colonization and monetary domination policies, alongwith changes in climate, not "lack of foresight". In fact, each of those civilizations you deride survived quite successfully without fouling their waters, killing off large populations of animals, etc... While Europeans have managed in a bare 300 years of dominance to destroy much of the world. Who, exactly, really lacks foresight? In fact Europeans are now going back and trying to learn from those "stupid, backward" native populations for truly sustainable ways to do agriculture, etc.
happy harry wrote:"Give a black man a fish,. he eats for a day...give him a fishing rod, he tries to attack someone with it, and steal their fish"
go talk to your KKK buddies. They are the only idiots that could possibly believe the garbage you wrote.
The sad thing is that after listing off reasons that Africa never developed advanced civilizations (there was no driving force to have concentrated populations with food readily available) he then concludes that this meant that they were stupid. The leap in logic he made is astounding. All he did was talk a little about early history and then state that whites were smarter than everyone because of their "bigger brains". Even assuming that white people have bigger brains (they don't) and that brain size has any measurable affect on intelligence (it doesn't) and that being in a city somehow increases brain size through successive generations (definitely not) the time that it would take to accrue the brain "size" necessary to have any intellectual advantage over those with varying skin tones would be far longer than the amount of time that civilizations have existed.

I point to happy harry's moronic explanation of intelligence as proof that white people aren't any more or less stupid than everyone else.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by pimpdave »

I suppose I'm horribly ignorant, but I've had this idea in my head since like, 5th grade science class that variety is beneficial to the gene pool.

Why the hell is everyone talking about white supremacy and shit? Why does this always come up somehow? It's always the dumbest arguments all the time. GabonX, stop trolling. There's no way you're stupid enough to believe this crap.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Phatscotty »

pimpdave wrote:I suppose I'm horribly ignorant, but I've had this idea in my head since like, 5th grade science class that variety is beneficial to the gene pool.

Why the hell is everyone talking about white supremacy and shit? Why does this always come up somehow? It's always the dumbest arguments all the time. GabonX, stop trolling. There's no way you're stupid enough to believe this crap.
no the problem is that the definition of racism has been hijacked, so only the people in power can tell you what racism is at any given time. next president/congress/media.....next newest tweaking of the definition. reminiscent of the movie 1984, how words kept dissapearing....
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Frigidus »

Phatscotty wrote:
pimpdave wrote:I suppose I'm horribly ignorant, but I've had this idea in my head since like, 5th grade science class that variety is beneficial to the gene pool.

Why the hell is everyone talking about white supremacy and shit? Why does this always come up somehow? It's always the dumbest arguments all the time. GabonX, stop trolling. There's no way you're stupid enough to believe this crap.
no the problem is that the definition of racism has been hijacked, so only the people in power can tell you what racism is at any given time. next president/congress/media.....next newest tweaking of the definition. reminiscent of the movie 1984, how words kept dissapearing....
Racism is a pretty clear cut term. Asserting that one race is superior to another, whether overall or in just one area, is racist.

racism n. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Snorri1234 »

john9blue wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:In the first place, "perfect humanity" and IQ are a wide spread apart. Even if you take IQ tests and such at face value, they are no judge of a person's worth.

People with high IQs can be absolute jerks, lazy, and lack morals. People with low IQs can be outstanding citizens and contributors to society. That is what I consider "worth", even in human terms, not pure abstract IQ ratings.
Absolutely I think that all humans have the same "value" or "worth". That's different from thinking that all people have the same abilities and are able to contribute to society in the same way. There is a difference between judging a single person based on race (racism) and judging an entire race based on race (as long as it is backed up by facts). ;)
Wow no dude that's actually racism.

Also, for bonus fun points you can try to define "race" for me.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Snorri1234 »

GabonX wrote:
Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.

So uhm....what were they?
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Frigidus »

Snorri1234 wrote:
GabonX wrote:
Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.

So uhm....what were they?
I believe the two dots symbolized that he felt that blacks have no advantages over whites...it's either a trolling sort of joke (my guess), an agreement that races don't have advantages over each other, or facepalm level bigotry.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by SultanOfSurreal »

Snorri1234 wrote:
GabonX wrote:
Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.

So uhm....what were they?
i think his brilliant thesis boils down to "white dudes are smart and niggers are good at basketball"
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Neoteny »

Black people have a higher melanin content, so they don't sunburn as easily as white people?

A gap in intelligence logically follows.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by thegreekdog »

Neoteny wrote:Black people have a higher melanin content, so they don't sunburn as easily as white people?

A gap in intelligence logically follows.
Not true. A black co-worker sunburns much more easily than I do. Of course, I'm Greek (my peoples intermarried with those pesky Africans back in the day) so maybe there's something to this melanin thing.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by john9blue »

Black people are harder to see at night... 8-[
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by jonesthecurl »

I was going to tell you about a long conversation I once had with Victor Serabriakoff, many years ago. I went to check whether there was any published stuff on the topic, and discovered he died in 2000. RIP Victor.

He used to write IQ tests. Eventually he became the International Chairman of Mensa (I met him when he was I believe merely the British chairman). He devised a new test for each group (he did this, amongst other things for a living), in an attempt to eliminate cultural bias. You cannot, he said, meaningfully compare the IQ of two groups that do not share a culture.

Incidentally, the average IQ of any group is by definition 100, or you have written or are using the wrong test for that group. Your IQ score measures where you are in relation to your cultural norm.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Neoteny »

thegreekdog wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Black people have a higher melanin content, so they don't sunburn as easily as white people?

A gap in intelligence logically follows.
Not true. A black co-worker sunburns much more easily than I do. Of course, I'm Greek (my peoples intermarried with those pesky Africans back in the day) so maybe there's something to this melanin thing.
I was being intentionally stereotypical. I have a friend who sunburns rather easily too, but it's nowhere near as bad as I do.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Neoteny wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Black people have a higher melanin content, so they don't sunburn as easily as white people?

A gap in intelligence logically follows.
Not true. A black co-worker sunburns much more easily than I do. Of course, I'm Greek (my peoples intermarried with those pesky Africans back in the day) so maybe there's something to this melanin thing.
I was being intentionally stereotypical. I have a friend who sunburns rather easily too, but it's nowhere near as bad as I do.
I remember asking this guy if he gets darker when he's in the sun for long hours, but he told me his skin gets lighter...
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by thegreekdog »

Neoteny wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Black people have a higher melanin content, so they don't sunburn as easily as white people?

A gap in intelligence logically follows.
Not true. A black co-worker sunburns much more easily than I do. Of course, I'm Greek (my peoples intermarried with those pesky Africans back in the day) so maybe there's something to this melanin thing.
I was being intentionally stereotypical. I have a friend who sunburns rather easily too, but it's nowhere near as bad as I do.
I know, I was intentionally pretending that you were not being intentionally stereotypical.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Neoteny »

thegreekdog wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Black people have a higher melanin content, so they don't sunburn as easily as white people?

A gap in intelligence logically follows.
Not true. A black co-worker sunburns much more easily than I do. Of course, I'm Greek (my peoples intermarried with those pesky Africans back in the day) so maybe there's something to this melanin thing.
I was being intentionally stereotypical. I have a friend who sunburns rather easily too, but it's nowhere near as bad as I do.
I know, I was intentionally pretending that you were not being intentionally stereotypical.
Stop that.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by thegreekdog »

Neoteny wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Black people have a higher melanin content, so they don't sunburn as easily as white people?

A gap in intelligence logically follows.
Not true. A black co-worker sunburns much more easily than I do. Of course, I'm Greek (my peoples intermarried with those pesky Africans back in the day) so maybe there's something to this melanin thing.
I was being intentionally stereotypical. I have a friend who sunburns rather easily too, but it's nowhere near as bad as I do.
I know, I was intentionally pretending that you were not being intentionally stereotypical.
Stop that.
Dude, my latest statement was intentionally directed at intentionally flaming you intentionally, while not intentionally flaming.

Intentionally.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by GabonX »

PLAYER57832 wrote:
GabonX wrote:
Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.
Explain.
I guess it's about time I addressed this. One of the advantages has already been mentioned..

Darker skin provides greater protection from the Sun. This apparently can also act as a disadvantage in Northern climates where there is less sunlight as people require a certain amount of exposure to absorb vitamins. Black people either need more exposure or need to eat more vitamins than lighter skinned people in Northern climates.

The second advantage I know of regards their physiology. It is well established that people of African descent have a greater proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers. This has proven to be a physical advantage and has been considered as a contributing factor to why certain sports are dominated by these people.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Neoteny »

I do see your point here. Really. Your point is that if there are proven physical differences, then there could possibly be mental differences. It's a valid conclusion, but not one supported by evidence. Now, let's get to your racism.

I'm going to ask you a question, and then give you pictures to choose from to make it easier on your feeble mind. Ready?

Which of these "people of African descent" have "a greater proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers?"

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I included the last one half in jest, and half to see if that's really what it takes to get a point through to you. There are very noticeable differences between "races." They can be illuminated by science. The science thus far says the following: the differences between races as contributed by genetics are negligible. Black people are naturally darker, but white people can tan. The differences between the races are so minor that they can be, and should be, ignored for consideration in everyday life. The only time these differences are really noticed is at the very extremes of human possibility. If environmental conditions in Kenya for some reason contribute to long-distance running ability, then the best Kenyan runner might be able to consistently beat the best European or Asian distance runners, as well as other races from Africa, but by a margin that is exceedingly slim. The smartest Asian might be able to get a few points on whatever aptitude test on the smartest white guy (or gal), but it won't be much, and it won't mean jack shit for the rest of the race. Most people are average people, and we aren't as different from each other as you obviously enjoy thinking. As humans, we share all these genes amongst ourselves, and the limitations of our genes are not as great as you want them to be.

I'm sorry (not really), but the statement "It is well established that people of African descent have a greater proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers," is wrong, and painfully obviously so. Even just the way you state these things makes it clear that you still don't know what the f*ck you are talking about.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by john9blue »

I don't know which side to take here, but it would help if one of you actually cited a source or two...

Also, a hypothetical for you. Suppose that far into the future, humans have divided into two groups by whatever means... two different colonized planets for example. Suppose one group has found ways to accelerate their genetic evolution, and the genetic differences between the two groups exceed the differences between the less evolved group and chimpanzees. Are both groups still human? Are both groups equal? When do you stop denying genetic advantages in the face of science? :-s
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Frigidus »

john9blue wrote:I don't know which side to take here, but it would help if one of you actually cited a source or two...

Also, a hypothetical for you. Suppose that far into the future, humans have divided into two groups by whatever means... two different colonized planets for example. Suppose one group has found ways to accelerate their genetic evolution, and the genetic differences between the two groups exceed the differences between the less evolved group and chimpanzees. Are both groups still human? Are both groups equal? When do you stop denying genetic advantages in the face of science? :-s
No, they aren't equal at that point, but that is a wildly different scenario. To suggest that humans have changed dramatically during the short period of time that has elapsed since our initial spread throughout the world shows a poor understanding of evolution.
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by john9blue »

Frigidus wrote:No, they aren't equal at that point, but that is a wildly different scenario. To suggest that humans have changed dramatically during the short period of time that has elapsed since our initial spread throughout the world shows a poor understanding of evolution.
That's not what I was implying. I was exaggerating and trying to do a "slippery slope" sort of thing. Where do genetic advantages and disadvantages begin to matter? How far apart to two groups of organisms have to be to be considered different?

I'm no biologist but I get the feeling that dividing species into a Linnaeus style tree isn't a 100% accurate way of representing the diversity of life on Earth, and I find it strange that such fierce proponents of macroevolution are so quick to deny microevolution at the human level.

Also I might be bringing this off topic. This might belong in the "high gear" thread. :|
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Re: Should we even talk about this?

Post by Neoteny »

john9blue wrote:
Frigidus wrote:No, they aren't equal at that point, but that is a wildly different scenario. To suggest that humans have changed dramatically during the short period of time that has elapsed since our initial spread throughout the world shows a poor understanding of evolution.
That's not what I was implying. I was exaggerating and trying to do a "slippery slope" sort of thing. Where do genetic advantages and disadvantages begin to matter? How far apart to two groups of organisms have to be to be considered different?

I'm no biologist but I get the feeling that dividing species into a Linnaeus style tree isn't a 100% accurate way of representing the diversity of life on Earth, and I find it strange that such fierce proponents of macroevolution are so quick to deny microevolution at the human level.

Also I might be bringing this off topic. This might belong in the "high gear" thread. :|
To be specific, your quandary is formally called the "species problem." We currently operate under the "biological species concept" which is not very great, to be honest, but it's the best we have for most situations.

A good question, but one that has a lot of background already.
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