Gilgamesh; Coordinates on pg 20

[MrBenn]

Welcome to the Foundry Proper... Onwards and Upwards!

[The Neon Peon]

May I make a personal request that you change the image name while hosting to something without "game"in it. My computer blocks that, so I am unable to view or comment on this.

[MrBenn]

Your computer blocks gilgamesh? That sounds more like a setup issue

[yeti_c]

42 posts and already an advanced draft?? It is good but I think you need a few more peoples opinions before giving it a stamp. And only 3 updates can hardly be called advanced. There are other maps in here with 10 pages of critisism and they are not even advanced drafts. Just because he is an experieced map maker and a cartographer doesn't mean he can get special treatment.
Don't get me wrong though, I love the map!


Edit: I forgot that this was a competition entry and received some vetting there. That makes me less annoied but I still think it should have been in here a little longer.

I have to say I completely disagree with all of this post.

C.

[oaktown]

42 posts and already an advanced draft?? It is good but I think you need a few more peoples opinions before giving it a stamp. And only 3 updates can hardly be called advanced. There are other maps in here with 10 pages of critisism and they are not even advanced drafts. Just because he is an experieced map maker and a cartographer doesn't mean he can get special treatment.
Don't get me wrong though, I love the map!


Edit: I forgot that this was a competition entry and received some vetting there. That makes me less annoied but I still think it should have been in here a little longer.

I have to say I completely disagree with all of this post.

I assume that includes the part where herschal said he loves this map?

[Beko the Great]

Oh! Thank you Oaktown! Thank you very much to keep this Idea alive! I'm so fan of sumerian and ancien t mesopotamia I was very sad when this map was taken away from centerscape... but I think it was better, this map will have a unique gameplay, I'm very hopeful to see very soon!

[Aline_Cedrac]

Oh! Thank you Oaktown! Thank you very much to keep this Idea alive! I'm so fan of sumerian and ancien t mesopotamia I was very sad when this map was taken away from centerscape... but I think it was better, this map will have a unique gameplay, I'm very hopeful to see very soon!

I agree with you, dear Beko the Great! Thank you Oaktown, for making this fantasy of some come true! Good luck with everything! You can count with my help and support, if needed!

[oaktown]

Click image to enlarge.

Nothing fancy in this update - I just wanted to clean some crap up. Regions extend off the map (looks cleaner), mountains fit some region borders better, etc.

May I make a personal request that you change the image name while hosting to something without "game"in it. My computer blocks that, so I am unable to view or comment on this.

Odd request, but granted. We now have the epic of Gilgamsh.

[ZeakCytho]

Gameplay wise, I think you may have undervalued Subartu. It has 9 territories and 6 borders, but is only a +5? It has an implicit +1, because there are 3 great cities in it, but even so, I think +6 would be a better base value (so it's +7 total). Sumer is also a bit undervalued - one less territory, 1 less border - I think it should be a +5 base (+1 for having 3 cities added on to that for a total of +6). Then Amorities, which is 2 less territories and 1 less border than Sumer, would have a more justified +4.

The other option would be to bring Amorities down to +3. But I think this map has enough small bonuses, between Wilds, Elam, Challenges, and Cities.

[lt_oddball]

for sure you couldn't find better actual historic province names than
"garden of the gods, the waters of death and the great darkness, and bull of heaven " ???
You make it like a cheap lord of the rings map..:s

[oaktown]

for sure you couldn't find better actual historic province names than
"garden of the gods, the waters of death and the great darkness, and bull of heaven " ???
You make it like a cheap lord of the rings map..:s

Or perhaps the Lord of the Rings was a cheap copy of Gilgamesh.

“If the following names: Anu, Enkidu, Mashu, Uruk, remember you The Silmarillion of Tolkien, you have to know that they belong to the Epopee of Gilgamesh.”
-Isaac Asimov

[sailorseal]

Well I am back after my "vacation" and here is what I have to say...

1. The conquer all of the symbols has to be changed because it should easily be acquired by the drop

2. Move the word oaktown over to not confuse a n00b about what the name is

3. Create new great cities around the lower left and top

4. The Sumer bonus is too low

5. The Grey bonus is too low

Love the map and would like to see it continue.

[gho]

You should add a description of the map and the times like you have in your triple alliance map in order to make the map more interesting historically.

[sailorseal]

You should add a description of the map and the times like you have in your triple alliance map in order to make the map more interesting historically.

This could fill up some of the empty space at the bottom...

[oaktown]

Click image to enlarge.

1. The conquer all of the symbols has to be changed because it should easily be acquired by the drop

Dropped it to +1, same as holding three cities. Originally the Bull would start neutral, making the +2 more reasonable.

2. Move the word oaktown over to not confuse a n00b about what the name is

Fixed.

3. Create new great cities around the lower left and top

Trouble with this suggestion is that the most significant cities at the time were along the rivers, for obvious reasons. Anyway, I'm not troubled by thelack of cities in the west, because both of those bonuses are small and easy to hold, making for excellent starts.

4. The Sumer bonus is too low

Agreed - bumped up to +5, which is really +6 with the cities.

5. The Grey bonus is too low.

Disagreed - since you have to either hold the Bull or defend against it, Sumer and Subartu (grey) are now very close in size and borders, so I think that making them both +6 (including the cities within) is in line with the rest of the map.

You should add a description of the map and the times like you have in your triple alliance map in order to make the map more interesting historically.

Done... space at the bottom filled. All of the bonus info now sits together on the lower tiles, as it should.

[sailorseal]

Wonderful, I recommend summoning a jury...

[gho]

Why dont you make the three challenges start neutral and make it a plus 3 to hold them all, to make it worth trying to get at the beginning instead of going for a continent which people usually do. I think it might add a bit of dimension to the play.

[oaktown]

Why dont you make the three challenges start neutral and make it a plus 3 to hold them all, to make it worth trying to get at the beginning instead of going for a continent which people usually do. I think it might add a bit of dimension to the play.

While I like the idea of making the challenges more attractive, there are negative side effects to starting them neutral. First, it would leave the map with 41 starting territories, which means every game would start with a minimum of 4 neutral territories or as many as 9 (seven player games). And the locations of the challenges aren't good for neutrals; the Bull would never come into play unless a player already had the other two and Uruk, while the Scorpions sit at a valuable bottleneck - a neutral there would allow easy expansion behind it and cut off the north and south halves of the map.

I'd really like to work further on this, but the feedback has dried up. lack of interest?

[Incandenza]

Not lack of interest, lack of anything really all that wrong with the map. It looks ready to be kicked up the ladder.

For the record, there's only a 2.75% chance a player will drop the challenges.

[AndyDufresne]

This is one of my favorite new looking maps, I'm just not sure I've anything to add at the moment.


--Andy

[oaktown]

Click image to enlarge.

Nothing major... mostly just fixed a few little things that had been bothering me. I've made the Challenges bonus +2, as suggested.

This is one of my favorite new looking maps, I'm just not sure I've anything to add at the moment.

Yeah, I'm lacking further inspiration myself!

Anyway, here's a small version if anyone is interested... note that I have NOT resized the army smears, as I will eventually do for the small map.

[Incandenza]

At the very least I'd say this is ready for last looks and a gameplay stamp.

[the.killing.44]

Only two things that I can spot without giving thisna real hard look:
• I like what you have going with the colored tiles in the bonusbkey, so I'm thinking that giving Canaan a slightly different shade of brown from the rest of thebottom would go better wit the rest of the key
• In the description ... the "So" in the beginning seems awkward. Is it really necessary?

This looks great, oak!
.44

[Incandenza]

• In the description ... the "So" in the beginning seems awkward. Is it really necessary?

It helps if you visualize it like a movie voiceover read by Ian Mckellan.... it's got a nice old-timey ring to it, I'd say.

[oaktown]

Click image to enlarge.

I like what you have going with the colored tiles in the bonusbkey, so I'm thinking that giving Canaan a slightly different shade of brown from the rest of thebottom would go better wit the rest of the key

Done. Made it more of a yellow.

• In the description ... the "So" in the beginning seems awkward. Is it really necessary?

No, but i like the way it sounds.

Also extended Alakhtum to the edge of the map - doesn't effect play, but looks much better. Also washed out the Bull territory a bit - it was too bright.