[GP] Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

Post by **Evil Semp** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:50 pm

What is the advantage except in freestyle in letting your time run out?

Soloman · Post by **Soloman** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:21 pm

Evil Semp wrote:What is the advantage except in freestyle in letting your time run out?

all of the concern as far as the strategy I believe one of the things on the 2 do list is stopping the ability to do back to back freestyle turns. I mean if this is done in conjunction with the other urgent to do items that also in volve the time and car system it would be an easy change that would truthfully make every one happy...

Those with perfect computer that never crash, internet connection that do not frequently go down, and little other distractions in life will be able to be sure people are not wasting time on the realtime freestyle games and those of us that have less then perfect constantly crashing computers, internet providers that have more excuses then conectivity and a lot of day to day drama can all be happy and get cards and described in game type

Iliad · Post by **Iliad** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:33 pm

Evil Semp wrote:I agree with getting a card. A couple of times the site went down during my turn and I didn't get a card.

How can it be used as a tatic?

Umm... escalating?

Post by **Evil Semp** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:21 pm

Iliad wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:I agree with getting a card. A couple of times the site went down during my turn and I didn't get a card.

How can it be used as a tatic?
Umm... escalating?

The question wasn't about not getting a card but letting your time run out. I have taken turns to place and not attack to miss getting a card, but to let the time run out on your turn doesn't make much sense to me. And usually in escalating you might skip a card in the early rounds.

I have lost several cards when the site was having problems. One time was in a doubles freestyle and it probably cost us the game.

AAFitz · Post by **AAFitz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:30 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
Iliad wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:I agree with getting a card. A couple of times the site went down during my turn and I didn't get a card.

How can it be used as a tatic?
Umm... escalating?
The question wasn't about not getting a card but letting your time run out. I have taken turns to place and not attack to miss getting a card, but to let the time run out on your turn doesn't make much sense to me. And usually in escalating you might skip a card in the early rounds.

I have lost several cards when the site was having problems. One time was in a doubles freestyle and it probably cost us the game.

always blaming the site for your mistakes....

but he's right...if you dont end your turn, no card...especially right now, with freestyle the way it is...

if thats fixed, there will just be another way to exploit it. Making you finish your turn, allows the other player to go. If your computer crashes that much, and cant be restarted inside of an hour, play no cards games...but redesigning the site to account for such things doesnt make sence. If you hold up the game, for whatever reason, you dont get your card...

if the site is working funny, and the game is really important to you...play it later....if your 24 hours is almost up...play, and cross your fingers....

Soloman · Post by **Soloman** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:28 pm

AAFitz wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:
Iliad wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:I agree with getting a card. A couple of times the site went down during my turn and I didn't get a card.

How can it be used as a tatic?
Umm... escalating?
The question wasn't about not getting a card but letting your time run out. I have taken turns to place and not attack to miss getting a card, but to let the time run out on your turn doesn't make much sense to me. And usually in escalating you might skip a card in the early rounds.

I have lost several cards when the site was having problems. One time was in a doubles freestyle and it probably cost us the game.
always blaming the site for your mistakes....

but he's right...if you dont end your turn, no card...especially right now, with freestyle the way it is...

if thats fixed, there will just be another way to exploit it. Making you finish your turn, allows the other player to go. If your computer crashes that much, and cant be restarted inside of an hour, play no cards games...but redesigning the site to account for such things doesnt make sence. If you hold up the game, for whatever reason, you dont get your card...

if the site is working funny, and the game is really important to you...play it later....if your 24 hours is almost up...play, and cross your fingers....

I think you are missing the point and you must fall into the 1st half of people I mentioned there are adjustments that are supposed to be going into effect to change time limits with that being done the card rule should be adjusted,

say we get the ability to play 15 minutes a turn with the adjustable time or even a half hour any number of things could happen, as they do now and servers are a funny thing 1 person may be able to access the site fine constantly while other people may get page cannot be displayed at random or more

the escalating point is a perfect example of why we should get a card, to stop people from stalling so they do not get a card and do not have to cash in, it will eliminate that cheap delaying tactic because it will no longer be an option they will have to not attack if they do not want a card.

Soloman · Post by **Soloman** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:58 pm

If this is implemented it should be in conjunction of the other things like no back to back turns even if time runs out and adjustable time limits in that scenerio every one but the people who use it for any of the previously mentioned delaying tactics that annoy all will be happy

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:24 am

yeti_c wrote:In the board game...

If you forget to take your card then you lose it... I assume that this is the CC derivative of this rule...

C.

the CC derivative would actually be :

CC = C^2
derivate of C^2 = 2C.

(with respect to C of course)

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:27 am

You really live up to your name

Soloman · Post by **Soloman** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:19 pm

upping

trackersdream · Post by **trackersdream** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:24 pm

still a issue that i beleive needs attention

Soloman · Post by **Soloman** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:20 am

this is still a valid subject

mach · Post by **mach** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:47 pm

pancakemix wrote:Sometimes that can be used strategically, though. Ex: I have 1 card, green has 3, and I'm about to lose. I can choose to do as much damage as possible, but not end my turn, he only gets 4 cards, and can't trade.

Why do you care who wins if its not you?

Soloman · Post by **Soloman** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:32 pm

mach wrote:
pancakemix wrote:Sometimes that can be used strategically, though. Ex: I have 1 card, green has 3, and I'm about to lose. I can choose to do as much damage as possible, but not end my turn, he only gets 4 cards, and can't trade.
Why do you care who wins if its not you?

Unfortunately some people are really petty

SkyCaptain · Post by **SkyCaptain** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:45 am

I agree with maniacmath.

Soloman · Post by **Soloman** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:17 am

So far enough to get it passed in congress agrees 75% lets see where the chips fall keep up the voting

Soloman · Post by **Soloman** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:33 am

jeffwell · Post by **jeffwell** » Sun May 27, 2007 1:03 pm

I ran out of time on my turn as i forgot to move my troops. And as a result i didn't get a card for conquering a territory as i normally would have.

Suggestion
when time runs out on a turn
Check to see if the player should still get a card.

sfhbballnut · Post by **sfhbballnut** » Sun May 27, 2007 7:34 pm

I believe that the card not being given is a necessary motivation for people to end there turns, it is incredibly annoying having someone sit there for an hour, apparently still taking there turn when they've left

State409c · Post by **State409c** » Sun May 27, 2007 9:37 pm

I may get burned in a game I am currently playing in because of someone using this tactic in a bit of a different way. I was sitting on 5 cards about to cash for 25. The guy before me had just been smashed down to just a few countries and was about to be out of the game. He had 2 cards, and attacked and took 2 countries, then let his turn run out. I cashed my bonus and of course took him out. Had he received his third card, I would have been able to cash again, take out another player with 4 cards, cash, and take out the final player with 3 cards for the win.

Since that didn't happen, the game could play out any way from here depending on if the other 2 guys can cash on their next 2 turns. It's entirely if the next guy cashes, he can win the game by taking out the guy with 4 cards, then he'll turn towards me. That will be 65 armies this round to clear out my ~40.

Just a little annoying that I had another 5 player game wrapped up until this dude went and pulled a chump move with the cards.

trackersdream · Post by **trackersdream** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:30 am

had to revive this with the other thread

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:20 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:(Apologies if this has been submitted before. I looked and didn't see anything, but I may well have missed it.)
Concise description:
Eliminate the ability for a player to take his turn, capture or bombard a territory, then time out without being awards spoils. If a player times out on his turn, he will automatically be awarded any spoils he would have received if he ended his turn normally.
Alternatively, clarify that this is officially recognized as an acceptable and valid tactic on this site.

Specifics/Details:
In escalating and nuclear spoils games, some players will start their turns, capture territories (to break bonuses or interfere with opponents), then refuse to manually end their turns to avoid receiving spoils. This is widely considered to be cheap tactic and is now being penalized in clan tournaments. Dako was removed as head of CCup4, presumably due to refusal to include a rule allowing Clan Directors to enforce penalties for using this tactic. Evidently, multiple members of Team CC believe this should not be allowed.

There are times when people time out accidentally, due to connectivity problems or real-life interruptions. Unlike the case where they completely miss their turns, these individuals have started their turns, deployed troops, and engaged in one or more battles. For all intents and purposes, they have completed their turns, so it seems unnecessary to penalize them. On the other hand, a rule against timing out in clan play requires a subjective judgement about a player's intentions.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

Automatically awarding spoils will eliminate a possible cheap strategy.

It will reduce the burden on clan directors, since they will no longer have to investigate timing-out complaints.

It will eliminate a need for a subjective judgement about a player's intentions.

In accidental cases, it will remove a penalty for currently incurred for accidental timing out due to real-life interference.

If this is considered an acceptable strategy by Conquer Club as a whole, an official statement to that effect would clarify the situation for everyone.

Compromise Proposal:
Automatically award spoils earned in all sequential games. Allow timing out without receiving spoils in freestyle games.

From the comments I've seen, it appears that the majority of the people that favor being able to avoid spoils do so in speed freestyle games. I don't like the idea of different rules between speed and casual games. However, freestyle already has different rules from sequential and allows for other types of tactics related to timing of turns. Also, freestyle games are not permitted in normal clan play, so this change would take care of all clan-related concerns about the rule.
Advantages
Clan players no longer have to worry about someone making a subjective judgement on motives when someone times out.

Speed freestylers keep their lost spoils penalties for those that delay too long.

The same rules apply in clan games and non clan games.

There are no rule differences between casual and speed games.

It becomes explicitly clear that timing out to avoid spoils is an accepted tactic in freestyle games (where precise timing of turns is already a key component of winning).

MOD EDIT: Copied OP

Spoiler

* Suggestion Idea:

doing all the hard work to earn your card but running out of time in al game types is aserious bummer that we have all fell fowl to. I suggest at the end of your alloted time the system in effect automatically ends your turn so that you still get the card you are due assuming you are due one

* Specifics:

see above

* Why it is needed:

would make the game slightly fairer and would also be a positive for noobs and new / inexperienced players that are caught out by not watching their time.

Strife · Post by **Strife** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:29 pm

I don't think this'll change. It's a strategy used by some.

Herakilla · Post by **Herakilla** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:17 pm

thats a strategy and what about speed games? especially freestyle where people will purposely do that so they can go right away after time runs out again? you want them to get away with it AND get a card?

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:29 pm

It's been rejected before, not because of the 'Strategy' part, but due in case to if you received a card at the end of your turn, people might just be well inclined to let the time run out, wasting a good a hour or so of play time. By forcing you to click End Fortification, we ensure generally shorter round times.

--Andy

[GP] Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

Automatically award a spoil to a player that takes a territory:

Cards & Running out of time.

Automatically award spoils even if a player times out