[Rules] Allow permabanned members to appeal

[Evil Semp]

The perma banned members should be happy we don't have the death penalty. Try appealing that.

Joking or not, it seems this is really indicative of the general attitude of Team CC these days.

Or is it indicative of your attitude toward Team CC these days? Or is it more towards me?

Everything isn't always about you. Maybe it's time to have a look around and think... it's often good to do some self-reflection, no one is perfect and so on...

I will quote you and just make a small change.

Funny how all you do on the forums is complain about evil semp... I'm sorry if you have a long distance boner for him, but it's no reason to overcompensate so blatantly...

[jeraado]

The perma banned members should be happy we don't have the death penalty. Try appealing that.

Joking or not, it seems this is really indicative of the general attitude of Team CC these days.

That seems harsh, not to mention axiomatically fallacious. If team CC hadn't softened the maximum penalty then surely this suggestion wouldn't exist?

[natty dread]

The perma banned members should be happy we don't have the death penalty. Try appealing that.

Joking or not, it seems this is really indicative of the general attitude of Team CC these days.

Or is it indicative of your attitude toward Team CC these days? Or is it more towards me?

Everything isn't always about you. Maybe it's time to have a look around and think... it's often good to do some self-reflection, no one is perfect and so on...

I will quote you and just make a small change.

Funny how all you do on the forums is complain about evil semp... I'm sorry if you have a long distance boner for him, but it's no reason to overcompensate so blatantly...

Why do you get so defensive? I'm only trying to help.

[Gillipig]

Concise description:

• Let members who were banned permanently and/or for six months have a chance to appeal their bans through an e-ticket

Specifics/Details:

• It is unfair that the max banishment has been reduced to 3 months, therefore users who have been banned permanently or for six months before the max ban was reduced should have the opportunity to appeal. If Team CC doesn't think their ban should be reduced or lifted, then no action is required. But at least allow the opportunity for an appeal.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• This is a user-active suggestion. Team CC doesn't have to go through EVERY SINGLE case. Only the cases that are being appealed through e-tickets
• Greatly better CC/member relations

I have a counter suggestion. Reintroduce the perma ban and clean up the forum a bit. I can think of one or two who would deserve it.

[notyou2]

Listen, is that the sound of hobnailed boots kicking in your door?

[Army of GOD]

Concise description:

• Let members who were banned permanently and/or for six months have a chance to appeal their bans through an e-ticket

Specifics/Details:

• It is unfair that the max banishment has been reduced to 3 months, therefore users who have been banned permanently or for six months before the max ban was reduced should have the opportunity to appeal. If Team CC doesn't think their ban should be reduced or lifted, then no action is required. But at least allow the opportunity for an appeal.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• This is a user-active suggestion. Team CC doesn't have to go through EVERY SINGLE case. Only the cases that are being appealed through e-tickets
• Greatly better CC/member relations

I have a counter suggestion. Reintroduce the perma ban and clean up the forum a bit. I can think of one or two who would deserve it.

Gillipig and...derp?

[Gillipig]

I have a counter suggestion. Reintroduce the perma ban and clean up the forum a bit. I can think of one or two who would deserve it.

"Did he mean me?"

No my son you need not worry. You're simply not that annoying.

[Symmetry]

How about something as simple as a petition? If enough members of the community sign up for a player to be reinstated, then their case should be reconsidered as perhaps not being as detrimental to the community as previously thought?

Pretty easy to implement, no?

[Evil Semp]

How about something as simple as a petition? If enough members of the community sign up for a player to be reinstated, then their case should be reconsidered as perhaps not being as detrimental to the community as previously thought?

Pretty easy to implement, no?

Define community.
1] The CC community-all members of CC.
2] The active CC community-those that are active on the scoreboard.
3] The forum community-Only those that post in the forums.
4] The vocal community-the posters who have X number of posts.

Where do you draw the line on how many members have to sign the petition?

[Gillipig]

How about something as simple as a petition? If enough members of the community sign up for a player to be reinstated, then their case should be reconsidered as perhaps not being as detrimental to the community as previously thought?

Pretty easy to implement, no?

Define community.
1] The CC community-all members of CC.
2] The active CC community-those that are active on the scoreboard.
3] The forum community-Only those that post in the forums.
4] The vocal community-the posters who have X number of posts.

Where do you draw the line on how many members have to sign the petition?

Maybe a poll would be better? Create a thread in general discussion and ask people if they think a certain person should be given a chance to come back. If a clear majority says yes then he/she gets a second chance. If not he/she stays permabanned for life and the discussion is over, the community has spoken. Sounds fair?

[Evil Semp]

How about something as simple as a petition? If enough members of the community sign up for a player to be reinstated, then their case should be reconsidered as perhaps not being as detrimental to the community as previously thought?

Pretty easy to implement, no?

Define community.
1] The CC community-all members of CC.
2] The active CC community-those that are active on the scoreboard.
3] The forum community-Only those that post in the forums.
4] The vocal community-the posters who have X number of posts.

Where do you draw the line on how many members have to sign the petition?

Maybe a poll would be better? Create a thread in general discussion and ask people if they think a certain person should be given a chance to come back. If a clear majority says yes then he/she gets a second chance. If not he/she stays permabanned for life and the discussion is over, the community has spoken. Sounds fair?

I don't think there is any system that would be considered fair. The wording of the polls can influence responses one way or the other. I might be wrong but I think you can change the wording of a poll after there have been votes. If the members who think a ban should be overturned are out voted they can claim "All the mods voted against him" or it is unfair because "Your in his clan and you whole clan just voted for him." That has happened in the "Passion for Owen Shooter" thread.

[Symmetry]

How about something as simple as a petition? If enough members of the community sign up for a player to be reinstated, then their case should be reconsidered as perhaps not being as detrimental to the community as previously thought?

Pretty easy to implement, no?

Define community.
1] The CC community-all members of CC.
2] The active CC community-those that are active on the scoreboard.
3] The forum community-Only those that post in the forums.
4] The vocal community-the posters who have X number of posts.

Where do you draw the line on how many members have to sign the petition?

Fair points, all. I would simply say that if a petition got a decent number of votes the decision should be up for reconsideration. That doesn't mean automatic reinstatement once a certain level is reached. And certain voices would obviously have greater weight than others.

I'm not advocating a hard and fast system here, just a possibility for an appeal process that might be a little more satisfactory. Of course, people will still be pissed off, no matter what, and there will always be people annoyed that their favoured player or poster can't come back.

So no- I can't define community, and I wouldn't want to. Too many people enjoy different aspects of the site. But, just as a tentative theory, say 20 names got put on a list asking to reconsider a ban, would it be unreasonable to look at that list, judge the merits of who was on the list by any of the criteria you mentioned, and see if the person is considered valuable enough?

[Army of GOD]

Anyway this can get stickied mods?

[notyou2]

Perhaps Semp will be kind enough to sticky it...........

[TheForgivenOne]

Perhaps Semp will be kind enough to sticky it...........

To my knowledge, he doesn't have forum powers in Suggestions.

[notyou2]

Please sticky this post TFO, or did you already?

[Army of GOD]

He did in his heart and that's what matters.

[shanksdigs]

Canada. 'nuff said.

[Symmetry]

It's really a topic that's going to come up over and over in different forms, so I'd also suggest a sticky. Maybe not this thread in particular, but certainly a sticky on the subject so that people can see which arguments have been dismissed and which are still being discussed. And the reasons behind them.

[Army of GOD]

Anyway this can get stickied mods?

[nietzsche]

This is not gonna bring Kid_A back AoG, stop it.

He'll probably get banned again within 1 week anyway tho.

[notyou2]

Canada. 'nuff said.

What do you mean by this?

[TheForgivenOne]

Canada. 'nuff said.

What do you mean by this?

Probably something derogatory towards Canadians.

[safariguy5]

I'd personally like DM back. If the max penalty has been reduced from Perma to 6 months, I think reconsideration of certain cases would be in order. Possibly something tied to input from the community. Now that we don't have Flame Wars anymore, the lines are more clearly drawn in my opinion.

Kind of like a reverse ex post facto system.

[Symmetry]

Yup- I like the idea of a petition system bringing a case to the attention of the mods, or perhaps to a sub-forum where it can be discussed. I don't see any major issue in discussing or dismissing cases on their own merits. We're pretty good at that already. See the cheating and abuse forum- plenty of sharp people around, plenty of discussion over the various merits of an argument. It's not perfect, but we can talk about why it's not perfect fairly reasonably.

So here's my tentative suggestion:

If a player can gather (let's say for the moment) 20 other posters for a petition to reinstate someone, then that poster's case should be up for re-examination. I would suggest either by a mod panel, or perhaps better, in a sub forum where people could raise objections before a final decision need be made.