Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:07 am

The bible was written by men because your creature doesn't exist. You are attempting to use one to prove the other.

By your logic the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists because there is a book written all about it.

So...if it is not a creature, what is it?

DangerBoy · Post by **DangerBoy** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:53 am

satanspaladin wrote:Jf I'm sorry all i ever do is ask you Questions, I hope im not bothering you two much .

But can you tell me why the churches ask for money when in in Matthew its says .

“do not store up riches for your selves on earth”

“no one can be a slave of two masters he will hate one and love other ,
he will be loyal to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both god and money.

So why are the churches one of the most rich organization on the planet .

The purpose of collecting tithes (10% of your possessions) for the church is for the church to carry out its function to communicate God's message to the world. Helping the poor & spreading the message of the Bible does take money.

It's true that we shouldn't store up riches for ourselves here on earth. It's not wrong to make a lot of $$ or become wealthy. But if that is the focus of your life then it's useless because eventually one day you will die and leave your possessions behind anyway. Money isn't evil - it's the love of money that can take your focus off of God. What really matters is if you're using your money to help others - and that is one of the functions of the church.

It's not just money that should be given to the church because some people don't have any. You can still give part of your time to serving others if you have no money. I don't really have a lot of money to begin with so my tithe isn't very big, but I can donate my time to some of the ministries we have here in my home church.

I don't know any concrete figures on the wealth of churches compared to other organizations. I'm just guessing here but if there's a lot of Christians giving money to their churches then they would have a lot of wealth.

CoffeeCream · Post by **CoffeeCream** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:50 am

luns101 wrote:He has made Himself known to us in 3 basic ways:

1. Through His creation
2. Through His Holy Word - The Bible
3. Through His Son - Jesus Christ

If the complexity of our world & that which is in it does not convince you then you probably will reject the 2nd. If you reject the 2nd you most likely will say you don't believe in the earthly ministry of Jesus in point #3.

Numerous prophecies in the Old Testament clearly describe things which only Jesus Christ fulfilled. I can list them for you if you want. The Bible leaves no question as to who the Messiah would be and what he would do. Jesus fulfilled those requirements.

So then what's the problem?...Mankind tries to set up the rules by which he will acknowledge God. It doesn't work that way. Mankind says "Show me and I'll believe". God says, "Believe and I'll show you". Many people refuse to take God at His word because they think that action of belief is a "blind" faith. Others have different reasons for not believing. It all basically comes down to "I refuse to submit to you, God". I hope that you will take God at His word.

Let me know if there's anything else you want to know. Glad to talk with you.

Well, I believe in the first. I'm just not so sure of the next two of your points. If you want to list the prophecies that prove that Christ is the Messiah then knock yourself out. I just now started reading the Bible seriously so I don't know my way around one like you might.

beezer · Post by **beezer** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:16 pm

Backglass wrote:No...it basically all comes down to the fact that no one has ever seen this creature. How can this be anything else other than blind faith?

I've never seen you. How can the fact that you exist be anything other than blind faith?

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:18 pm

God's existance can be ontologically proved. You miss the point, it has nothingto do with whether or not we can see him.

CrazyAnglican · Post by **CrazyAnglican** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:28 pm

beezer wrote:
Backglass wrote:No...it basically all comes down to the fact that no one has ever seen this creature. How can this be anything else other than blind faith?
I've never seen you. How can the fact that you exist be anything other than blind faith?

You've read his words (the one's we attribute to him in the many writings in the social forums of Conquer Club). How could you doubt?

Blind faith indeed! I believe there is a backglass.

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:31 pm

beezer wrote:
Backglass wrote:No...it basically all comes down to the fact that no one has ever seen this creature. How can this be anything else other than blind faith?
I've never seen you. How can the fact that you exist be anything other than blind faith?

Reasoning. There is a small chance that Backglass is just a very advanced computerprogram put here to gain lots of info about this site. But it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume he actually exists, because how else could his posts appear on this site?

CrazyAnglican · Post by **CrazyAnglican** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:34 pm

Snorri1234 wrote:
beezer wrote:
Backglass wrote:No...it basically all comes down to the fact that no one has ever seen this creature. How can this be anything else other than blind faith?
I've never seen you. How can the fact that you exist be anything other than blind faith?
Reasoning. There is a small chance that Backglass is just a very advanced computerprogram put here to gain lots of info about this site. But it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume he actually exists, because how else could his posts appear on this site?

Someone may be assuming a role (quite contrary to his/her own beliefs) and posting them for any number of reasons. In which case backglass is a fictional character in the same way that Hucklerry Finn doesn't exist just because Mark Twain wrote dialogue for him and attributed motivations and actions to him. Assuming he exists might not be much of a stretch, but it would in fact be a stretch.

But like I said. "I believe in backglass"

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:54 pm

CrazyAnglican wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
beezer wrote:
Backglass wrote:No...it basically all comes down to the fact that no one has ever seen this creature. How can this be anything else other than blind faith?
I've never seen you. How can the fact that you exist be anything other than blind faith?
Reasoning. There is a small chance that Backglass is just a very advanced computerprogram put here to gain lots of info about this site. But it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume he actually exists, because how else could his posts appear on this site?

Someone may be assuming a role (quite contrary to his/her own beliefs) and posting them for any number of reasons. In which case backglass is a fictional character in the same way that Hucklerry Finn doesn't exist just because Mark Twain wrote dialogue for him and attributed motivations and actions to him. Assuming he exists might not be much of a stretch, but it would in fact be a stretch.

But like I said. "I believe in backglass"

You misunderstand. The person who is typing Backglass' messages exists. Whether he or she believes everything he/she posts is irrelevant.

satanspaladin · Post by **satanspaladin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:56 pm

CrazyAnglican wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
beezer wrote:
Backglass wrote:No...it basically all comes down to the fact that no one has ever seen this creature. How can this be anything else other than blind faith?
I've never seen you. How can the fact that you exist be anything other than blind faith?
Reasoning. There is a small chance that Backglass is just a very advanced computerprogram put here to gain lots of info about this site. But it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume he actually exists, because how else could his posts appear on this site?

Someone may be assuming a role (quite contrary to his/her own beliefs) and posting them for any number of reasons. In which case backglass is a fictional character in the same way that Hucklerry Finn doesn't exist just because Mark Twain wrote dialogue for him and attributed motivations and actions to him.

But like I said. "I believe in backglass"

Can not the same be said for the bible that its is a work of fiction designed to bring
a feeling of fellowship to an oppressed people

CrazyAnglican · Post by **CrazyAnglican** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:03 pm

Snorri1234 wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
beezer wrote:
Backglass wrote:No...it basically all comes down to the fact that no one has ever seen this creature. How can this be anything else other than blind faith?
I've never seen you. How can the fact that you exist be anything other than blind faith?
Reasoning. There is a small chance that Backglass is just a very advanced computerprogram put here to gain lots of info about this site. But it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume he actually exists, because how else could his posts appear on this site?

Someone may be assuming a role (quite contrary to his/her own beliefs) and posting them for any number of reasons. In which case backglass is a fictional character in the same way that Hucklerry Finn doesn't exist just because Mark Twain wrote dialogue for him and attributed motivations and actions to him. Assuming he exists might not be much of a stretch, but it would in fact be a stretch.

But like I said. "I believe in backglass"
You misunderstand. The person who is typing Backglass' messages exists. Whether he or she believes everything he/she posts is irrelevant.

No, I'm not misunderstanding at all, and yes satanspaladin the same is said about the Bible. My point is this. Backglass is under no obligation to prove himself to me. I believe he exists based on nothing more than the rather dubious claim that he (a single entity, living and breathing) has actually posted those posts. The only evidence I've seen of his existence is literary and my own assumptions. If the person who types those posts is in fact not backglass then what evidence do I have for his existence? Why doesn't he just show up? He could figure out a way if it were important to him. Thinking it through though, How would I know it was him even then? I'd have to take his word for it.

For that matter, I've seen backglass shift to very different writing styles from time to time. What if there are two or more people writing under the pseudonym backglass. Can he then exist in the way that you suggest Snorri? I think he then becomes a construct of two or more peoples' imaginations.

I still believe in backglass though.

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:23 pm

I have felt Backglass' presence in my own life. He personally assisted me in winning a game on World 2.1 once. He never showed himself to me, but he did communicate to me through the gamechat, which is CC's equivalent of prayer.

To CoffeeCream: I will provide you with the list of prophecies pointing to Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

CrazyAnglican · Post by **CrazyAnglican** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:25 pm

I've often felt backglass challenging me through his posts (scriptures) as well. That is evidence enough for me, like I said I'm a believer.

He smote me in a classic game as well. Wouldn't answer my game chat or anything.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:34 pm

I assume this is a metaphor for God - just confirming.

CrazyAnglican · Post by **CrazyAnglican** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:51 pm

unriggable wrote:I assume this is a metaphor for God - just confirming.

Well...things like that are best left to personal interpretation.

satanspaladin · Post by **satanspaladin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:03 pm

CrazyAnglican

I think you misunderstood me ,i probably phrased it wrong .

Does it mater if the bible is part fiction or even all of it fiction ,it was written over many years
by different people trying to tell a world of a god that most had not heard of in there time in a way that people could understand .is it not the word of god that counts not man's words in a book ,
the book is just a guide to try and understand god is it not ?

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:05 pm

Complete sentences, paladin.

CrazyAnglican · Post by **CrazyAnglican** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:53 pm

Hi satanspaladin,

I wasn't really speaking about the Bible as such in the thread. Just poking a little fun at both sides of the issue of proving that anyone (much less an omnipotent God) could exist.

I think you have a good point in that the stories of the Bible are there as instruction. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God which to me means that the stories within were inspired by God's Holy Spirit. If there was a worldwide flood, great. If there wasn't, okay, Noah still shows me the importance of standing for my faith and principles in a world that would mock and attack me for it. I'll be the first to admit my faith isn't as strong as it could be. I'm just following the process of growing in it.

satanspaladin · Post by **satanspaladin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:16 pm

unriggable wrote:Complete sentences, paladin.

As i have said before in this thread.
If my grammar offends your sensibilities put me on your ignore list .

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:16 pm

Anglicans exist in Georgia? Quelle Horreur...

satanspaladin · Post by **satanspaladin** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:20 pm

CrazyAnglican wrote:Hi satanspaladin,

I wasn't really speaking about the Bible as such in the thread. Just poking a little fun at both sides of the issue of proving that anyone (much less an omnipotent God) could exist.

I think you have a good point in that the stories of the Bible are there as instruction. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God which to me means that the stories within were inspired by God's Holy Spirit. If there was a worldwide flood, great. If there wasn't, okay, Noah still shows me the importance of standing for my faith and principles in a world that would mock and attack me for it. I'll be the first to admit my faith isn't as strong as it could be. I'm just following the process of growing in it.

Well a small prayer from me that you do well in your growing

CrazyAnglican · Post by **CrazyAnglican** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:02 pm

All prayers on my behalf are certainly appreciated. I'll do the same for you.

Napoleon Ier wrote:Anglicans exist in Georgia? Quelle Horreur...

I don't know what that means, but yeah scary isn't it?

luns101 · Post by **luns101** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:41 pm

Coffee:

I started typing everything out for you and realized how long it was going to take. Rather than taking up so much space on this thread I'll post the links for you to investigate for yourself. It's going to take you awhile to go through all of them. Ask yourself this question as you go through them all...what are the odds of one person being able to fulfill all of these prophecies? The fact that these things were written about by different people separated by time & geography should also be considered.

General prophecies

Prophecies from Psalms

Prophecies from Isaiah

Napoleon Ier wrote:Anglicans exist in Georgia? Quelle Horreur...

I believe in Backglass. Don't ask me to believe in Georgia.

CoffeeCream · Post by **CoffeeCream** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:00 pm

luns101 wrote:Coffee:

I started typing everything out for you and realized how long it was going to take. Rather than taking up so much space on this thread I'll post the links for you to investigate for yourself. It's going to take you awhile to go through all of them. Ask yourself this question as you go through them all...what are the odds of one person being able to fulfill all of these prophecies? The fact that these things were written about by different people separated by time & geography should also be considered.

General prophecies

Prophecies from Psalms

Prophecies from Isaiah

Looks like I have a lot of links to click on. Thanks.

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:48 am

luns, you should however take all prophecies with a grain of salt, practically everyone had access to those prophecies at the time. For a literate person it was practically a checklist of what to do (or what to seem) to be the messiah. Furthermore none of the gospels were written while Jesus was still alive. There is very little said about him while he still lived, I think the earliest gospel was written some 20 or 30 years after his death and no gospel was written by one of Jesus disciples as far as I know. Also: stories have a tendency to get better the more they're told, it's not hard to add a few details.