WoT:Mem of Light An Ending

[aage]

Read back.

Aage, it says a lot that nobody has even noticed you try and push a Mitch lynch, you arent even voting for him!

Didn't know voting was mandatory... Besides, I'm not trying to get a wagon going, the guy's already claimed. I'll vote him when I want to end the day.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Read back.

Aage, it says a lot that nobody has even noticed you try and push a Mitch lynch, you arent even voting for him!

Didn't know voting was mandatory... Besides, I'm not trying to get a wagon going, the guy's already claimed. I'll vote him when I want to end the day.

So lets get this straight:

You are being extremelly negative about the Mandy wagon, whilst thinking there are multiple better lynch targets, but you dont want to push those targets?

Is that about right?

[Ragian]

BuJ mentioned tokle. When aage said that the case against Mandy is weak, I was merely stating that any case against Tokle would be the same. Aage argues that Tokle is scumarining, but it's the weekend... Weaksauce

FP'ed

[DoomYoshi]

@ Mandy , Your claim was suspicious but I am coming around to believe you, lots of time to switch votes, Doom needs to man up and let the truth out about my night move

How about you go stick a fork up your rectum? I'm not going to sell out my role because you claimed after 0 provocation. If you want to be a moron and start D2 with blurting out your role, go ahead but don't try to bring anyone down with you. Even if I said "yes, I was roleblocked" that doesn't prove anything because roleblock is a MAFIA POWER. If you talk to me again, I'll jump on your wagon. You say I wouldn't back you up but I've defended you more than anyone (including, nay, especially yourself).

[Ragian]

Calm down, man. And what do you mean that roleblocking is a mafia power? I've played with more town roleblockers than scum ones.

[DoomYoshi]

It's an either/or. It is not indicative of alignment (like doctor or cop would be).

[aage]

@ Mandy , Your claim was suspicious but I am coming around to believe you, lots of time to switch votes, Doom needs to man up and let the truth out about my night move

How about you go stick a fork up your rectum? I'm not going to sell out my role because you claimed after 0 provocation. If you want to be a moron and start D2 with blurting out your role, go ahead but don't try to bring anyone down with you. Even if I said "yes, I was roleblocked" that doesn't prove anything because roleblock is a MAFIA POWER. If you talk to me again, I'll jump on your wagon. You say I wouldn't back you up but I've defended you more than anyone (including, nay, especially yourself).

[aage]

Read back.

Aage, it says a lot that nobody has even noticed you try and push a Mitch lynch, you arent even voting for him!

Didn't know voting was mandatory... Besides, I'm not trying to get a wagon going, the guy's already claimed. I'll vote him when I want to end the day.

So lets get this straight:

You are being extremelly negative about the Mandy wagon, whilst thinking there are multiple better lynch targets, but you dont want to push those targets?

Is that about right?

If I had to choose between Mandy and Mitch I'd lynch Mitch, but a bunch of people havent posted for a while so I'd like to give them the opportunity to do so.

[Ragian]

I took your statement to indicate that mitch was scum based on the fact that he can block. What do you mean by "mafia power" if that's not the case?

Also, let's just assume that mitch was telling the truth (which he might be), would you never offer if you were blocked or not in the event that mitch was about to be lynched? In other words, perhaps, do you think mitch is scum?

FP'ed by some light comedy. (I was thinking about a Ron Burgundy myself, but resisted the temptation.)

FP'ed by aage again. Stop it, will you

[DoomYoshi]

I took your statement to indicate that mitch was scum based on the fact that he can block. What do you mean by "mafia power" if that's not the case?

Also, let's just assume that mitch was telling the truth (which he might be), would you never offer if you were blocked or not in the event that mitch was about to be lynched? In other words, perhaps, do you think mitch is scum?

FP'ed by some light comedy. (I was thinking about a Ron Burgundy myself, but resisted the temptation.)

FP'ed by aage again. Stop it, will you

Did you somehow also miss the part when I spent the first half of the day defending madmitch?

[Ragian]

Nope. And I'm agreeing with you. Neither did I miss your teenage outburst just before. It would be easier just saying no or yes.

[Metsfanmax]

and you're misreading the post. You're saying "[it] wouldn't make any sense at all if he was dark", even though Mandy explains why it doesn't make sense as light. The fact that nobody stepped forward day 1 saying "hold on don't lynch dakky, dark is town" is proof that none of the Dark aligned people knew that they were town. Therefore you can't fault someone for trying to appear to be light D1 - it's the same as appearing to be town, if you assume dark=scum and light=town.

The argument for lynching dakky was that he was playing poorly. If you're on the dark team, you'd be just as happy to have him gone (and indeed I was) because he represents a threat to your interests, and that's better than what D1 lynches usually are, which is random. I don't want a loose cannon on my team. Furthermore, dakky was clearly going to be lynched D1 because of his antics. Therefore even if you think dakky was not net negative to the dark team, if you were dark D1 and thought that you were scum, you might as well have hopped on the bandwagon to get (what you thought was) town cred for lynching a Dark player. So while you're right in saying that it's WIFOM, the whole point is that mandy is the one that started the WIFOM, yet is using it to try and gain town cred.

[madmitch]

@ Doom . sorry mate did not mean to put pressure on you and for damn sure don't want a target on your back either, but that A-hole Storr has been after me from the start with no good reason and along with the accusations from other players I guessed I just got so frustrated of trying to show them I am telling the truth I jumped on you, If I thought I could get hid of Storr I would switch my vote to him but Mandy made a mess of his claim and seems like the likely lynch now, Want my prediction for the D3 lynch ? STORR

[mandalorian2298]

OK, fine, I went and made an effort. I hope you guys are happy now. I'm all exerted.

I unvote vote Wing and also SFOS Mitch whom I think is Wing's scum buddy.

As I insinuated before, I also suspect BuJaber, mainly because he jumped on my bandwagon AFTER I claimed, but I haven't bothered to construct a whole case against him as well to avoid confusion. If I'm right about these two and I croak, give him a looksie.

So lets start with

1. CASE AGAINST WING

Wing started out this game full of nostalgic memories of the games of yore. While this has mostly been done to avoid talking about THIS game, he's recolections did provide one salient detail: in the last Wheel of Time game, he put in a herculean effort into crafting "a fairly non commital persona that could have been multiple characters". There it is, in the quote bellow, Wing was a busy little persona-crafter in the last Wheel game.

i mean. as long as i get something that i can claim with out being instant lynched ill be good

quick search on any search engine (google, bing) will tell you something you can claim... i never heared of wheel of time but i'm pretty sure i'll find a claim if it will be necessary.

This is where you are still learning. You try that in this game and you will be instantly lynched.

I spent longer googling Wheel of time in the last game than I spent in the mafia forums to be able to craft myself a fairly non commital persona that could have been multiple characters to mitigate whatever snippets of information Rish had given individual players (Such as IB following the four women...).

On top of that I got town to lynch Mars early, (the only person who had actually read the book), so that no one was knowledgable enough to see through my carefully crafted lie.

It was a lot of work.

And Aage pissed on my bonfire by substituting in late game with detailed knowledge of the actual storyline.

Actually no, he was given fake claims by Rish:

OK, to short-circuit this nonsense, I'll claim my character (but not my power because it would make me less effective).

I am "Grendal" or, more precisely, Graendal AKA Kamarile Maradim Nindar. I am "beautifully full figured with elaborately curled red-gold hair." Yeah.

Meaningless. Full claim.

Rish gave me decent fake claims in the last game including a couple that took a couple of hours to decipher their real names rather than whatever nicknames Rish feels like using. Rish misspelling means nothing.

This should be interesting to all of you who are attacking me for being unsure if Dark or Light is Town in the beggining - Wing was sure.

He was 100% commited to fight against Darkness.

Ok Read up. I thought there would be more...just Dakky self destructing.

Dark can be Town? Light is scum? I can not recall any fantasy novel or mafia game where that has been true. He has stated he is Dark alighned.
He has no choice but to claim.

Dakky IS scum.

And the fact you dont know that makes you the next lynch.

This is where the difference between agressive and scummy comes into play: an agressive Town player is going to be forcefull in his pursuit of scum, but only the scummy player is going to try to silence the disenting voices, since he doesn't need discussion to find out who (other) scumsters are.

Of course, that is not the only time that Wing has claimed to fight Darkness:

Last game I was never really sure whether me and Streaker were mafia or a third party, didnt help that players kept dying without me killing them cause of Endgame vigging.

Aage, are we hunting for the the evil bloke and his henchmen again? Bets on Mets being the evil bloke?

As for the WING - MITCH CONNECTION, check this out:

Vote Aage

Cause it will make me happy

Just a joke vote, no biggy, right? Except that, when I asked Wing why he mentioned "Inner Circle", these three posts happened:

Page 9

@ Mandy good question, tell us Wing

You know when you are mafia and you have buddies to talk to. Well in games where there are other hidden mafia they are not aware of you get an inner circle of buddies and the others.

Think White Rose in Surprise Mafia. Yeah that game I ended up modding for blooming ages....

In this case Dakky wouldnt be acting this way if he had buddies to talk to. Ergo inner circle must exist outside of him.

Vote Aage - Cause.

In more useful information (repeat as you all ignored it last time), when I was the mafia boss in the last WoT game with Streaker as my sidekick I was never told I was mafia, only that I was in the Shadow. Conjecture meant that I was probably the evil guy due to being able to kill and roleblock at night as well as being the books evil dude, but it was never explicitly stated.

Can we get a vote going as to whether Streaker or Dakky had the worse start to their respective games? Streaker started in style in the last WoT game too.

@ Wing thanks .

There are several features of interest here.

Firstly, this is the only time during the game that Wing's arrogance abandoned him, only to be replaced by such jumpiness, that he joke-vote for Aage again in a desperate attempt to act casual.

Then there is Mitch, who joins in with all the conviction of a North Korean journalist who is "grilling" Kim Jong Un.

Mitch: "Explain yourself Wing, right now!"

Wing: "Well, I am going to begin by rememebering previous games which were in no way related to this one, but did have an Inner Circle. After that I am going to deduce that dakky seems lonely, like he has no one to talk to and if he were in an Inner Circle he could talk to other memebrs of this Circle, but he can't, which proves that Inner Circle exists outside of dakky.
Hahaha, but seriously, I'll just joke vote Aage, again, cause I'm so care-free. "

Mitch: "Glorious Leader, I came here as your biggest accuser, but your complete innocence proven by that completely logical explanation has shown both me and the World that we were wrong to doubt you. Thank you for your time."

***************

That's it from me. If still get lynched through sheer apathy, I hope that you guys will find my deductions useful.

[BuJaber]

I don't think the back and forth between rag and doom is helping. Doom has already refused many times. And now he's saying the truth. He was the best defender of mitch at the beginning of the day, better than mitch himself, which is one reason why I jumped on them both. If you want to vote for him ragian go ahead, that'll be a different and much more productive alternative. Though to be honest those last string of posts by doom are probably more telling than anything he could say.

Mandy, I'm not sure but I think you're at L-3. Lynches can happen extremely fast here. If you want to post something, this is probably the time. Maybe L-4 if mitch unvoted .. he's been changing his mind a lot.
(FP'd by Mandy ... about time; I don't know if I agree about Wing yet, but very interesting and helpful post)

Another few hours passed and still no posts from the inactives. At least storr typed out 4 words.


FP'd by mitch okay you got your wish (plus after mandy's post) ... Unvote Vote Mitch Storr is the least of your worries day 2; and you know that because he's barely posted and hasn't had an impact on anybody's votes so far on D2. You jumping on doom was after I build cases against both of you and since I specifically had you two together this only makes you look worse. I would go as far as saying you might even be trying to help mandy now - that's how out of place that post is.

[new guy1]

Alright, well I'll focus things a little as the day has gone awry. Mitch, I want to know about those day powers. Along with how you ended up at gregwolf. I've done the figuring, and either there are two busdrivers in this game (correct me if its become more commonplace, but that didn't used to happen too often when I played), or you're lying.

Sorry for my mentioned silence, Buj. Was waiting to see if things revolved back to Mitch so I wouldn't have to give more information, but the day has become rather divided with the potential lynchees.

Vote Mitch

We can look at other people as well, I'm not trying to pull away from other cases if people are convinced. I'm trying to get a for sure candidate so that when it's time to end the day, we don't run into any potholes about who's a better candidate and it gives Mitch plenty of time to defend himself properly.

[new guy1]

To follow up, I would add that gregwolf, if you were able to do your action last night, then I don't care what you did, it would prove Mitch's claim fake to say you were able to do your action, if you have one.

[madmitch]

@ The new guy. a big FOS for skimming, it was Doom not gregwolf, and for my day action you should be able to figure that out.

[gregwolf121]

wow i get swamped by school and everybody decides to claim
we have wing claiming trolloc, though he doesn't say what species of trolloc
i think aage is also a trolloc, cause he didn't like dakky's initial claim of trolloc, the only way he would know that plain trolloc wasn't a viable claim is if he was a trolloc himself.

then you have madmitch claiming M'Hael, roleblock and some unnamed day action, said he roleblocked doom, also got really upset that doom won't confirm it
don't like madmitches blatant bandwagoning, he voted mandy right after wing did for no real reason given

mandy then claims to avoid the pressure, he claims Graendal, no role given

we have enough claims for 1 day already, doesn't help town to have everyone claim in one day, just lets the bad guys know who's who.

wait bujaber you said you were fastposted by mandy and then by madmitch? i don't see a post from madmitch after mandys post. unless you mean the one before mandys post?

I don't think the back and forth between rag and doom is helping. Doom has already refused many times. And now he's saying the truth. He was the best defender of mitch at the beginning of the day, better than mitch himself, which is one reason why I jumped on them both. If you want to vote for him ragian go ahead, that'll be a different and much more productive alternative. Though to be honest those last string of posts by doom are probably more telling than anything he could say.

Mandy, I'm not sure but I think you're at L-3. Lynches can happen extremely fast here. If you want to post something, this is probably the time. Maybe L-4 if mitch unvoted .. he's been changing his mind a lot.
(FP'd by Mandy ... about time; I don't know if I agree about Wing yet, but very interesting and helpful post)

Another few hours passed and still no posts from the inactives. At least storr typed out 4 words.


FP'd by mitch okay you got your wish (plus after mandy's post) ... Unvote Vote Mitch Storr is the least of your worries day 2; and you know that because he's barely posted and hasn't had an impact on anybody's votes so far on D2. You jumping on doom was after I build cases against both of you and since I specifically had you two together this only makes you look worse. I would go as far as saying you might even be trying to help mandy now - that's how out of place that post is.

and new guy i have no idea where you got my name from, but doom was the one madmitch claimed to have blocked not me

[gregwolf121]

also, mets this post of yours really confused me, mostly because of the messed up quote boxes, at first it looked like you were FOS-ing yourself.

[quote="aage"']

I'll vote mandy too, in order to force a full claim. mandy's story just simply doesn't make sense; he's specifically trying to take credit for having started the game going after dark players, which wouldn't make any sense at all if he was dark, yet he's now claiming a dark allegiance. So I'm guessing third party or something, though Light is possible. At any rate, he clearly seems to be lying about something.

FoS mets for this post, honestly this smells like wilful misreading of Mandy's posts. Mandy explained his controversial behaviour here:

Having received a role of this nature, I am pretty sure that I would be then able to deduce that a) I was scum and b) Light is scum; in which case I surely would have not begun the game with "Kill dakky and all the forces of darkness!!!" paladin-like zealotism.

Justifying your vote with flavour wifom in a non standard game is incredibly scummy.

Huh? That's the post I'm responding to. Pay attention. I'm calling him out for trying to take credit for going after dark players.[/quote]

[gregwolf121]

EBWOP, great then i mess up the quote boxes

also, mets this post of yours really confused me, mostly because of the messed up quote boxes, at first it looked like you were FOS-ing yourself.

[quote="aage"']

I'll vote mandy too, in order to force a full claim. mandy's story just simply doesn't make sense; he's specifically trying to take credit for having started the game going after dark players, which wouldn't make any sense at all if he was dark, yet he's now claiming a dark allegiance. So I'm guessing third party or something, though Light is possible. At any rate, he clearly seems to be lying about something.

FoS mets for this post, honestly this smells like wilful misreading of Mandy's posts. Mandy explained his controversial behaviour here:

Having received a role of this nature, I am pretty sure that I would be then able to deduce that a) I was scum and b) Light is scum; in which case I surely would have not begun the game with "Kill dakky and all the forces of darkness!!!" paladin-like zealotism.

Justifying your vote with flavour wifom in a non standard game is incredibly scummy.

Huh? That's the post I'm responding to. Pay attention. I'm calling him out for trying to take credit for going after dark players.

[new guy1]

@ The new guy. a big FOS for skimming, it was Doom not gregwolf, and for my day action you should be able to figure that out.

I know you said you targeted doom. I am saying I also know, you actually targeted gregwolf. And I have done the calculating, and have come to the conclusion that either you are lying about who you visited, or there are two busdrivers who targeted gregwolf as one of their two picks for Night 1, in an at the time 19 player game. I find those odds very unfavorable for you, and so am going with the former until proven wrong.

[TimWoodbury]

@ The new guy. a big FOS for skimming, it was Doom not gregwolf, and for my day action you should be able to figure that out.

I know you said you targeted doom. I am saying I also know, you actually targeted gregwolf. And I have done the calculating, and have come to the conclusion that either you are lying about who you visited, or there are two busdrivers who targeted gregwolf as one of their two picks for Night 1, in an at the time 19 player game. I find those odds very unfavorable for you, and so am going with the former until proven wrong.

If your saying maitch didnt really block who he says he did then i bealive there very well could be multiple roles messing with night actions

[Metsfanmax]

@ The new guy. a big FOS for skimming, it was Doom not gregwolf, and for my day action you should be able to figure that out.

I know you said you targeted doom. I am saying I also know, you actually targeted gregwolf. And I have done the calculating, and have come to the conclusion that either you are lying about who you visited, or there are two busdrivers who targeted gregwolf as one of their two picks for Night 1, in an at the time 19 player game. I find those odds very unfavorable for you, and so am going with the former until proven wrong.

Why are two busdrivers required? Wouldn't it be sufficient for someone to have bussed gregwolf and Doom, for mitch to be telling the truth?

[new guy1]

@ The new guy. a big FOS for skimming, it was Doom not gregwolf, and for my day action you should be able to figure that out.

I know you said you targeted doom. I am saying I also know, you actually targeted gregwolf. And I have done the calculating, and have come to the conclusion that either you are lying about who you visited, or there are two busdrivers who targeted gregwolf as one of their two picks for Night 1, in an at the time 19 player game. I find those odds very unfavorable for you, and so am going with the former until proven wrong.

Why are two busdrivers required? Wouldn't it be sufficient for someone to have bussed gregwolf and Doom, for mitch to be telling the truth?

That's half of it. The other half has to do with how my night action turned out. In order to explain the mechanics, it would pretty much out my role. I wanted to see how Mitch and everyone else responded before I had to do that. Would rather not altogether, but I'm willing if it might prove useful. Otherwise I will leave it at the two explanations: He's lying, or there are two busdrivers that both target gregwolf as one of their two swap candidates. I find it difficult to believe that both would have targeted gregwolf in what was at the time a 19 player game.