Balance Not Included Mafia 3/12 End Game: Balance. Town Wins

[StorrZerg]

I still haven't given my read on pcm. So hold your horses metz.

[pancakemix]

Do you disagree with the statement that people voting virus for early day 1 stuff is bad this late in the vote?

I think it strains credulity to think anyone would at that point.

Lastly it's a really big conspiracy that I had this all set up from day 1, 0 talking to virus pregame. Forced his claim, and then try to hero mode save him.

Or it's a basic distancing play that you pushed too far and it got out of hand. You don't have to coordinate that.

I'm done defending. Going to use the rest of my time to present detailed reads on every single one of you.

Wait, you're giving up? I'm legitimately on the fence here about your claim, but I have some doubts about your actions and your role. You could answer those questions and maybe sway me but if you're content to be lynched, I'm content to leave my vote where it is.

As far as your reads themselves, I'm not gonna disregard them, but they're not gonna hold as much weight unless you take the log out of your own eye first.

Sorry can you explain why a 1 shot town vig named batman is a bad claim again? In a small game

I actually did address this (post-lynch, but nevertheless I did). Batman famously has a no-kill rule. So...

On meta: It has its place. I'm hesitant to take it as law, though. Sometimes things change depending on what happens in one game or another, and sometimes we adjust our play. Maybe your play is similar to another game where you were town, but I can't say for certain if that's a rule or if you're saying that to throw me off. Honestly, I shudder to think I'd be that predictable in a game.

[pancakemix]

Oh, and I eagerly await your read on me. I doubt it will be flattering, but if you've waited this long it must be good.

[StorrZerg]

Lastly it's a really big conspiracy that I had this all set up from day 1, 0 talking to virus pregame. Forced his claim, and then try to hero mode save him.

Or it's a basic distancing play that you pushed too far and it got out of hand. You don't have to coordinate that.
I could have switched targets at anytime. I didn't

I'm done defending. Going to use the rest of my time to present detailed reads on every single one of you.

Wait, you're giving up? I'm legitimately on the fence here about your claim, but I have some doubts about your actions and your role. You could answer those questions and maybe sway me but if you're content to be lynched, I'm content to leave my vote where it is.
It might appear that i am "giving up" but that is far from the case. I'm mostly just overly exhausted with trying to prove how town i was day 1. And its making no head way, anything i say is meet with "how ever" or "you probably set it up that way to use it as a defense latter" Either way, most people are not actually reading any actions i made day 1, save for the last pull off of virus. I may now and then present something new for my defense. If something comes up. So I'm going to use the rest of my time (yes i state i have limited time for a reason) Pushing people i find scummy, And presenting my town reads. As for my limited time, The entire town is not interested in another lynch at this point. No one is even considering James, or anyone else for that matter.

As far as your reads themselves, I'm not gonna disregard them, but they're not gonna hold as much weight unless you take the log out of your own eye first.
I need you to be more specific. From my point of view, if i am lynched today, i will flip town. My reads then will become valid, because i will be confirmed town.

Sorry can you explain why a 1 shot town vig named batman is a bad claim again? In a small game

I actually did address this (post-lynch, but nevertheless I did). Batman famously has a no-kill rule. So...
See this is actually very crappy. The idea of a fake claim is to blend in with town. Virus had a real mafia name, and he had a fake name which was Batman, his town name. Picking at the name batman to find scummy, is actually just picking at flavor. The mod fully intended batman to be viewed as "a town vigilante" because that is what he is. I personally don't find any enjoyment at picking apart claims. (look at breaking bad when we caught a mafia basically because he claimed a watcher role, and his name was some obscure police guy. So many people pushed that as a scummy claim it wasn't funny. That was breaking the flavor of the game. The mod again fully intended that name to be looked upon as a townie name) As i've stated before, i view the game from a different angle, i don't try to generally break the game off flavor, i try to find scummy people on their actions and how they play the game.

On meta: It has its place. I'm hesitant to take it as law, though. Sometimes things change depending on what happens in one game or another, and sometimes we adjust our play. Maybe your play is similar to another game where you were town, but I can't say for certain if that's a rule or if you're saying that to throw me off. Honestly, I shudder to think I'd be that predictable in a game.
I'm not saying to use it as law, You happened to be in both games as well. People can read into that. I know exactly what i could say that would make me look super townie from the 2 games. Unless someone wants to me to say it ill refrain from presenting my defense from that angle. Hell, look at mets one of his new reasons now is to lynch me now over policy because using meta is "poor form"

Regarding Roles and my role. New angle on how to "prove, or at least verify myself"

I visit someone each night. It can be tracked, i can be watched. hell i could be role checked. I have no idea what powers are out there, but with so many people having power roles something has to be up. Not to mention with how many people find me scummy this day, its kinda odd that no one watched or tracked me last night and confirmed anything. No cop claim to damn me as well.... (latter part isn't important, whats important is i do something at night which can then be watched or tracked)

now i know this doesn't guarantee that i'm "not mafia" because i could be using a role like "role checker" But it means that i couldn't be roleblocker, since if i got confirmed by a watcher or tracker visiting said person, that person would be able to claim role blocked to prove my role is bad. If said person died over my visit, then my role would most certainly be confirmed with the day post. I honestly think i can be proved in the night.

Serious question, what do people think of mass claims at this point. Seems like some of you are very comfortable with being able to read claims and decide if they are fake claims or not.
If people honestly believe me to be scum with virus, that would almost certainly put the scum team to a very small number.

Last thing for this post. Mtamb almost certainly role blocked someone. It is also very likely a mafia role blocked as well. There is a good chance if 2 role block claims happen then 1 of them is very close to confirmed being town. Why? because 2 kills happened in the night, its possible neither of them could be mafia since 2 deaths happened. (just a theory, like to here what people think on this) Also i can confirm i was not role blocked.

[Iron Butterfly]

"Jones Jim was walking around the neighborhood looking for someone to recruit. There were a lot of promising houses that night but in the end he went with the one that had blood dripping from under the door. Knocking loudly and then ringing the door bell, he thought he heard a scream for help come from within but he shrugged it off. After a minute of waiting the door opened with a man holding a dripping axe.

Smiling up at the man, "HI my name is Jones Jim. I am starting a cult. Would you be interested in joining?"

The man made no reply except to swing the axe at his head with a thud and beat him to a bloody pulp.

Hotshot-Jones Jim-Cult recruiter has been killed."

If I read this I see that Hotshot/Jim Jones was killed by a serial killer or he targeted the serial killer. It is standard play here at CC that mafia shoots and serial killers chop or kill.

It negates your claim of Town Crier as you did not target Hotshot yet we have a description of his death here. It tells me that he hit a serial killer. Plain as the nose on my face. I read the night scene the first time and saw the deaths and glazed over the details. I was about to write a post to support your Town Role and focus on jonty when I re read the night scene and Hotshots death registered.

If you said you targeted Hotshot your claim would be very believable. However the scene tells me we have a serial killer without your role.

Your role now makes no sense and can not even be proven now as we have no idea what the mod writes in the night scene and what you can claim your role reveals.

I now really believe you are scum. We have a few more days left so I will vote when a consensus is made but would like more discussion. I cant believe I missed that discrepancy.

[StorrZerg]

HEY MOD GENERALLY HOW PEOPLE DIE IN THE DAY POST IS FLAVOR CORRECT. NOT INDICATIVE OF HOW THEY DIED YES

[StorrZerg]

I'm telling you, if my power went off, it would be very fucking clear.
It would have "bold color shit with role shit"

Like lets say i watched you. ANd you died
It would state at the start of the day (as an example)

This person scum o scum o lordMafia poop face

That is what my power does. Again i targeted myself last night, so i no idea what you are talking about right now about my claim being false. So as above i wrote in bold, and i pm'd the mod to just reconfirm that the scene is just flavor regarding how someone dies. (this is how it was in breaking bad, i assumed it was the same way in this game)

hence my belief that there are likely 2 scum factions. 2 scum factions of 2 + cult or 3 mafia, an sk and a cult. And i suppose likely as well, just 3 mafia + cult maybe a 3rd party survivor role or lyncher or something like that.

[StorrZerg]

Correction on how it would look

scum nuts -mafia role blocker has killed Reginald Philman-Town Crier

This is mod confirmed. Which my role does.

[pancakemix]

If I may bring this up:

i have a list of roles and set ups. The set ups depend on how many sign up but the roles are completely independent and will be randomly selected regardless of it's affect on balance

This suggests that there was a pool of roles at the beginning and alignments are randomly assigned along with the roles as opposed to being fixed to them, which would explain why virus was a vig on the mafia side. It would also mean that Storr is probably telling the truth about is role, but the point is moot because he could just as easily still be scum.

Mod, am I understanding that correctly?

[StorrZerg]

Says balance not alignment.

[Metsfanmax]

Correction on how it would look

scum nuts -mafia role blocker has killed Reginald Philman-Town Crier

This is mod confirmed. Which my role does.

OK, but what the hell does this have to do with anything that has happened so far?

[Metsfanmax]

Correction on how it would look

scum nuts -mafia role blocker has killed Reginald Philman-Town Crier

This is mod confirmed. Which my role does.

OK, but what the hell does this have to do with anything that has happened so far?

Also you're skirting with a mod killable offense. Saying that the mod has confirmed that this is how your role works confirms that you do actually have this role, which is information you cannot post.

[jonty125]

It is standard play here at CC that mafia shoots and serial killers chop or kill.

Is it? I have never used that in the few games I have modded.



I am content with lynching virus today & I didn't jump on "suddenly" on D2, I did vote you early on D1, but then virus claimed. (or at least that is how I remember it).

[Iron Butterfly]

Correction on how it would look

scum nuts -mafia role blocker has killed Reginald Philman-Town Crier

This is mod confirmed. Which my role does.

OK now it is clear. I was under the assumption that it was how someone was killed or other such info. You never specifically said the role and alignment would be revealed.

[Iron Butterfly]

It is standard play here at CC that mafia shoots and serial killers chop or kill.

Is it? I have never used that in the few games I have modded.



I am content with lynching virus today & I didn't jump on "suddenly" on D2, I did vote you early on D1, but then virus claimed. (or at least that is how I remember it).

Yes it is. My point was about serial killers killing with knives and mafia with guns, which is why I said what I said about Stoors role above. I misunderstood how the role worked as he was not fully clear.

Jonty Your modded games are exceptions to modded games and YOU more then anyone should know they are a sore point in my book as in both of them I was lynched because I asked a question that in normal games would not cause problems. I got lynched because of color differences and i forget the second but it was stupid.

I will not be back till later tonight.

[Streaker]

Don't worry, I'm here. I just did a quick read through the posts, as I said, I was out of town for a few days (which I mentioned before).
What I see is that Storr has a hole in his story, that he feared he'd be killed this night. There is a post where he states he will definitely NOT be killed due to protection going to him.
Also, I am 100% sure Storr did not use his power on himself. Give me a bit more time to get back to this.

Further, I am wanting to build a case on Jonty, but no time for now. I should be able to post something more extensive by Saturday lastest.

[StorrZerg]

Don't worry, I'm here. I just did a quick read through the posts, as I said, I was out of town for a few days (which I mentioned before).
What I see is that Storr has a hole in his story, that he feared he'd be killed this night. There is a post where he states he will definitely NOT be killed due to protection going to him.
Also, I am 100% sure Storr did not use his power on himself. Give me a bit more time to get back to this.

Further, I am wanting to build a case on Jonty, but no time for now. I should be able to post something more extensive by Saturday lastest.

My opinion on myself changed with the flip of virus as mafia. I eagerly await anything that could "prove" i wasn't on myself last night.

As for your case on jonty, i hope you move a little bit quicker.

[StorrZerg]

Correction on how it would look

scum nuts -mafia role blocker has killed Reginald Philman-Town Crier

This is mod confirmed. Which my role does.

OK, but what the hell does this have to do with anything that has happened so far?

Also you're skirting with a mod killable offense. Saying that the mod has confirmed that this is how your role works confirms that you do actually have this role, which is information you cannot post.

Not to be an asshole right now. If you had read any of the exchange between me and IRON you would realize he is trying to extrapolate evidence of the set up of the game based on flavor of the kills. Hence i showed him what "mod confirmed" information would look like if my power went off. Hence i am not skirting with any mod kill able offense. You are clearly miss reading the exchange between myself and iron.

[Metsfanmax]

Correction on how it would look

scum nuts -mafia role blocker has killed Reginald Philman-Town Crier

This is mod confirmed. Which my role does.

OK, but what the hell does this have to do with anything that has happened so far?

Also you're skirting with a mod killable offense. Saying that the mod has confirmed that this is how your role works confirms that you do actually have this role, which is information you cannot post.

Not to be an asshole right now. If you had read any of the exchange between me and IRON you would realize he is trying to extrapolate evidence of the set up of the game based on flavor of the kills. Hence i showed him what "mod confirmed" information would look like if my power went off. Hence i am not skirting with any mod kill able offense. You are clearly miss reading the exchange between myself and iron.

You're missing my point, which is independent of your exchangedwith IB. By saying that the mod confirmed that this is what your role would like if activated, you're saying the mod confirmed you have that role. The mod couldn't tell you what the role would look like if you don't have it.

[StorrZerg]

Correction on how it would look

scum nuts -mafia role blocker has killed Reginald Philman-Town Crier

This is mod confirmed. Which my role does.

OK, but what the hell does this have to do with anything that has happened so far?

Also you're skirting with a mod killable offense. Saying that the mod has confirmed that this is how your role works confirms that you do actually have this role, which is information you cannot post.

Not to be an asshole right now. If you had read any of the exchange between me and IRON you would realize he is trying to extrapolate evidence of the set up of the game based on flavor of the kills. Hence i showed him what "mod confirmed" information would look like if my power went off. Hence i am not skirting with any mod kill able offense. You are clearly miss reading the exchange between myself and iron.

You're missing my point, which is independent of your exchangedwith IB. By saying that the mod confirmed that this is what your role would like if activated, you're saying the mod confirmed you have that role. The mod couldn't tell you what the role would look like if you don't have it.

report my post then if you feel its unjust. If he feels i did wrong, i will be mod killed. Then you guys will have 3 days to figure out how to lynch a mafia since town confirmed storrzerg will be dead.

I was not pointing out that my role was mod confirmed. I was pointing out what mod confirmed information would look like in a day post with deaths. (which is why my role has relevance and what it does)

Also btw mets, why did you not respond to the claim question. You told me to find your quote, so i did and i asked some questions. Please respond

[Metsfanmax]

It seem to me, if he really was a town vig that was 1 shot. You would have lynched him any ways over principle. So i ask again. What specifically didn't you like about his claim.

In all your posts about him and his claim, you fail to say that his claim sounds scummy or fake. It really sounds like you lynched virus on 1. principle because of his claim 2. to secure a lynch.
i don't think either of those reasons are scummy, but they are not alignment indicative regarding your feelings on virus.

Sure. I didn't have strong feelings that virus was scum in terms of his playstyle. My point was that was an unconfirmable role and it was overall in town's best interests to lynch him, because there was a strong probability that he was mafia. I ended up being right, and there was definitely some luck in there, but the point was that I believe the claim forced me to make that vote. You decided that everything was cool and he was probably town despite no possible evidence to that effect, which is what I was criticizing. The people who didn't vote virus weren't massively wrong to fail to do so, but I think there were good reasons to do so and you're ignoring them.

[StorrZerg]

UPDATED READ
mets is no longer very townie. My read is now that it is likely only 1 mafia between Mets and PCM.

Also every single person who has stated "well i was about to back off you and push XX or maybe push someone else" only to have in the same post "but you just did this / i found this" so i'm going to stay. (which include IRON, streaker, mets, pcm.) forgive me if you didn't do exactly this, but i'm calling out 4 people right now with similar behavior to my lynch. 2 of which (iron and mets) have no decided i am going to be lynched over "flavor text in the day post (which maybe iron will back off when mod confirms flavor) and mets (who has decided to lynch me for policy because i brought up meta to defend myself) NOW NOW NOW i know thats probably not your only reason. But the point stands you both brought up ludicrous points as to why you want to vote for me which are not based on alignment.

Honestly is this just not pathetic that my lynch focus has shifted this much, it is no longer because i am scum. It is "well i found something in the flavor text that is probably hard confirmed information about the setup, so his role must be fake so ill lynch him" "Well you brought up using meta to defend onself, i'm going to lynch you over policy because "its poor form" "o you are going to get mod killed for that post"

[StorrZerg]

It seem to me, if he really was a town vig that was 1 shot. You would have lynched him any ways over principle. So i ask again. What specifically didn't you like about his claim.

In all your posts about him and his claim, you fail to say that his claim sounds scummy or fake. It really sounds like you lynched virus on 1. principle because of his claim 2. to secure a lynch.
i don't think either of those reasons are scummy, but they are not alignment indicative regarding your feelings on virus.

Sure. I didn't have strong feelings that virus was scum in terms of his playstyle. My point was that was an unconfirmable role and it was overall in town's best interests to lynch him, because there was a strong probability that he was mafia. I ended up being right, and there was definitely some luck in there, but the point was that I believe the claim forced me to make that vote. You decided that everything was cool and he was probably town despite no possible evidence to that effect, which is what I was criticizing. The people who didn't vote virus weren't massively wrong to fail to do so, but I think there were good reasons to do so and you're ignoring them.

That is called lynching for policy. Not lynching because you think he is scum. I did not state i thought he was town. NEVER. i said he might be town, and "if he was town" talking from his point of view, what he should do to help town. My policy belief in letting him prove himself was conditional on him doing something. I was going to hammer him. I gave him time, while i was playing league of legends myself. I had my alarm set to make sure i didn't miss the dead line to insure the hammer. We both made a call on virus based on policy. You made your call on him saying he should die. I gave my call saying he could prove himself.

[Metsfanmax]

report my post then if you feel its unjust. If he feels i did wrong, i will be mod killed. Then you guys will have 3 days to figure out how to lynch a mafia since town confirmed storrzerg will be dead.

I was not pointing out that my role was mod confirmed. I was pointing out what mod confirmed information would look like in a day post with deaths. (which is why my role has relevance and what it does)

I'm not going to "report" you. I'm pointing out that it's information we just cannot use. If you're telling the truth, that means the mod is confirming your claimed role exists because why else would he answer a question about how a town crier's information would appear in a day scene? And even if that's actually the case, then strike wolf could never confirm that he said it because the mod is never supposed to confirm someone's alignment or the existence of various roles in the game. The specific role you described is something I've never heard of and has certainly got to be a rare role. If we were to even ask strike how a town crier's information would appear in this game, and he verified what you said, then he'd essentially be confirming that the role is in the game, because usually the town crier does something completely different than what you have described.

So there is no scenario where we can trust that you're telling the truth about this information without also believing that the mod has confirmed it and therefore confirmed your role.

Also btw mets, why did you not respond to the claim question.

Because I'm tired of your shenanigans. But, see above.

That is called lynching for policy. Not lynching because you think he is scum.

Thank you for that very helpful insight. I was completely aware of what I was doing. The point is, we got it right and you didn't. And now you're hardcore defending your incorrect call. I'm not saying it's the scummiest behavior, but you were calling people like James out for not jumping on your original wagon against virus, so it just makes you look stupid.

[Metsfanmax]

Honestly is this just not pathetic that my lynch focus has shifted this much, it is no longer because i am scum

It is absolutely because you are scum. You obviously misunderstood my post. No member of town who has town's best interests at heart would use the type of tactics you are using. You're throwing every single argument you can think of at us to confuse the situation instead of speaking with a clear message about what the situation is. Complaining about your situation is helping no one and if you are town you'll recognize that the lynch is inevitable and therefore be helpful to us instead of sowing dissent.