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Don't you have a certain few paragraphs of mine to respond too?Jenos Ridan wrote: If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
How about instead of proving that Islam doesn't, I prove the Christianity does? I don't care if you think Islam is designed to induce people to murder, I just don't want you to hold an absolute DOUBLE STANDARD for something you don't believe in.Jenos Ridan wrote:If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
The Bible wrote:They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
The Bible wrote:If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
And I wasn't even trying; this is a serious topic.Iliad wrote:And neither are you. I was only ridiculing youJenos Ridan wrote: If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
No how about you prove to me what in Shariah Law is against the Universal Declaration of Human rights?
Slavery: Also in christianityJenos Ridan wrote:And I wasn't even trying; this is a serious topic.Iliad wrote:And neither are you. I was only ridiculing youJenos Ridan wrote: If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
No how about you prove to me what in Shariah Law is against the Universal Declaration of Human rights?
Let's see.........
Slavery, class discrimination (Dhirimitude), gender discrimination (Muslim's typical treatment of Women as nearly the same level as property) just to name the big ones. I'm sure the Shariah Law, the Hadith and Koran all sing the same tune.
Article 9 wrote:No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Yeah right. So basically, you're making excuses for the muslims to beat and rape their women, enslave people who are not muslim (Dhirimitude), coerse said slaves to convert by what amounts to ridicule and bullying (Same), kill off whole scores of people simple because they are pagan (Darfur) and catagorically divide the world into the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-Harb?Iliad wrote:Slavery: Also in christianityJenos Ridan wrote:And I wasn't even trying; this is a serious topic.Iliad wrote:And neither are you. I was only ridiculing youJenos Ridan wrote: If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
No how about you prove to me what in Shariah Law is against the Universal Declaration of Human rights?
Let's see.........
Slavery, class discrimination (Dhirimitude), gender discrimination (Muslim's typical treatment of Women as nearly the same level as property) just to name the big ones. I'm sure the Shariah Law, the Hadith and Koran all sing the same tune.
Class discrinimation: probably also there
gender discrimination: defintely there
no I'm not saying those things are right but I'm arguing that Islam is not a violent religion and it was not more violent then christianityJenos Ridan wrote:So basically, you're making excuses for the muslims to beat and rape their women, enslave people who are not muslim (Dhirimitude), coerse said slaves to convert by what amounts to ridicule and bullying (Same), kill off whole scores of people simple because they are pagan (Darfur) and catagorically divide the world into the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-Harb?Iliad wrote:Slavery: Also in christianityJenos Ridan wrote:And I wasn't even trying; this is a serious topic.Iliad wrote:And neither are you. I was only ridiculing youJenos Ridan wrote: If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
No how about you prove to me what in Shariah Law is against the Universal Declaration of Human rights?
Let's see.........
Slavery, class discrimination (Dhirimitude), gender discrimination (Muslim's typical treatment of Women as nearly the same level as property) just to name the big ones. I'm sure the Shariah Law, the Hadith and Koran all sing the same tune.
Class discrinimation: probably also there
gender discrimination: defintely there
Firstly I think Shariah law is an abomination and should prove to everybody that secular government is the only sane option. However the vast majority of Muslims do not live under Shariah law and Im pretty sure that a lot that do rather wished they did not . The penalties for rape you will note under Shariah are much stiffer than in Western societies and in all probability the figures are much lower than in supposedly Christian countries such as the USA.Those who follow other religions are certainly persecuted in certain Muslim countries but they are not enslaved, hundreds of thousands of ex pat workers rather prove my point.Jenos Ridan wrote:So basically, you're making excuses for the muslims to beat and rape their women, enslave people who are not muslim (Dhirimitude), coerse said slaves to convert by what amounts to ridicule and bullying (Same), kill off whole scores of people simple because they are pagan (Darfur) and catagorically divide the world into the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-Harb?Iliad wrote:Slavery: Also in christianityJenos Ridan wrote:And I wasn't even trying; this is a serious topic.Iliad wrote:And neither are you. I was only ridiculing youJenos Ridan wrote: If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
No how about you prove to me what in Shariah Law is against the Universal Declaration of Human rights?
Let's see.........
Slavery, class discrimination (Dhirimitude), gender discrimination (Muslim's typical treatment of Women as nearly the same level as property) just to name the big ones. I'm sure the Shariah Law, the Hadith and Koran all sing the same tune.
Class discrinimation: probably also there
gender discrimination: defintely there
Actually that sentence is from one of the best comic-books ever. Asterix & Obelix.radiojake wrote:Sounds alot like nationalism to me - how long until you join some fucked up vigilante militant group driven by some white power motives, decorated with the French National Flag as a backdrop? You have some very strong ideals, Naps, too bad they are exclusive and selfish, topped off with a very strong dose of hatred.All France is occupied: All? NOT! A small band irreducible Gaulois resists still and always to the invader...
Confirmed, it doesn't do much to add credibility to Nappys arguments, though.Snorri1234 wrote:Actually that sentence is from one of the best comic-books ever. Asterix & Obelix.radiojake wrote:Sounds alot like nationalism to me - how long until you join some fucked up vigilante militant group driven by some white power motives, decorated with the French National Flag as a backdrop? You have some very strong ideals, Naps, too bad they are exclusive and selfish, topped off with a very strong dose of hatred.All France is occupied: All? NOT! A small band irreducible Gaulois resists still and always to the invader...
Well...I might have overstated it a bit.CrazyAnglican wrote:Believeing that Christ is peace loving is "only, slightly more rational than thinking he was a war-mongering criminal"? It's all interpretation? Okay?Snorri1234 wrote: I understand that you believe that Jesus was all for peace and love, and I fully agree with you, but that belief is only slightly more rational than thinking he was some war-mongering criminal. It's all interpretation.
"He who lives by the sword dies by the sword" (in context as an admonition to Peter not to violently oppose those who would seize Him when his earthly life was on the line)
Yes and it remains picking and choosing. And that is totally not a bad thing. However, the reason I brought it up was that Nappy was saying muslims can't pick or choose. I countered that by saying that means christians can't pick or choose either and must believe everything as literal truth.If they do not place the same importance upon them than it is most assuredly not semantics. I've been accused many times of "picking and choosing" because I do not adhere to every law from the Old Testament or everything in the Epistles. The simple fact is that, in the Church I attend, they are not viewed as being as important as the Gospels.
But...they are all the same group... All three are worshipping the same god. And we didn't want to stereotype, we were just taking Nappy's generalizing one logical step futher.You can certainly attempt to lump all religions with some common scriptures into one groups, but to do so is to stereotyping. Isn't that what you guys were accusing Napoleon Ier of?
I wonder why Jenos hasn't responded to this.F1fth wrote:How about instead of proving that Islam doesn't, I prove the Christianity does? I don't care if you think Islam is designed to induce people to murder, I just don't want you to hold an absolute DOUBLE STANDARD for something you don't believe in.Jenos Ridan wrote:If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)The Bible wrote:They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)The Bible wrote:If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
And trust me, there is much, much more.
If you want to say "That's not Christianity," then fine, but then all the crap you bring up about Islam is just as invalid.
Snorri1234 wrote:Actually that sentence is from one of the best comic-books ever. Asterix & Obelix.radiojake wrote:Sounds alot like nationalism to me - how long until you join some fucked up vigilante militant group driven by some white power motives, decorated with the French National Flag as a backdrop? You have some very strong ideals, Naps, too bad they are exclusive and selfish, topped off with a very strong dose of hatred.All France is occupied: All? NOT! A small band irreducible Gaulois resists still and always to the invader...
A veritable milestone in the post-war search for national pride...Too logical?Snorri1234 wrote:I wonder why Jenos hasn't responded to this.F1fth wrote:How about instead of proving that Islam doesn't, I prove the Christianity does? I don't care if you think Islam is designed to induce people to murder, I just don't want you to hold an absolute DOUBLE STANDARD for something you don't believe in.Jenos Ridan wrote:If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)The Bible wrote:They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)The Bible wrote:If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
And trust me, there is much, much more.
If you want to say "That's not Christianity," then fine, but then all the crap you bring up about Islam is just as invalid.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
Too much evidence gives Christian debaters a heart attackNeoteny wrote:Too logical?Snorri1234 wrote:I wonder why Jenos hasn't responded to this.F1fth wrote:How about instead of proving that Islam doesn't, I prove the Christianity does? I don't care if you think Islam is designed to induce people to murder, I just don't want you to hold an absolute DOUBLE STANDARD for something you don't believe in.Jenos Ridan wrote:If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)The Bible wrote:They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)The Bible wrote:If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
And trust me, there is much, much more.
If you want to say "That's not Christianity," then fine, but then all the crap you bring up about Islam is just as invalid.
Here, I'll fill in the usual rebuttal.Iliad wrote:Too much evidence gives Christian debaters a heart attackNeoteny wrote:Too logical?Snorri1234 wrote:I wonder why Jenos hasn't responded to this.F1fth wrote:How about instead of proving that Islam doesn't, I prove the Christianity does? I don't care if you think Islam is designed to induce people to murder, I just don't want you to hold an absolute DOUBLE STANDARD for something you don't believe in.Jenos Ridan wrote:If you think you're being funny, you're not. I say again: Show that there are no Satanic Verses, Show that Dhirmitude is ficticious, Show that Mohammad didn't order his followers to kill off dissenters, Show that Shari'ia Law is fully compatable with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Show me these things and I might just be silenced.
The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)The Bible wrote:Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)The Bible wrote:They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)The Bible wrote:If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
And trust me, there is much, much more.
If you want to say "That's not Christianity," then fine, but then all the crap you bring up about Islam is just as invalid.
While this arguments is more likely than not technically heretical, it's the only semi-reasonable response to the various Old Testament quotes that don't fall in line with their beliefs.Guy who firmly believes Christianity is inherently peaceful but Islam is inherently violent wrote:But Jesus said 'Let he without sin throw the first stone', so he overrode the Old Testament with some new Truth. Basically, you can't take the Old Testament at face value. Except for the part where is says gay people are an abomination. That part was spot on.
Seriously though guys the reason he didn't respond to it was probably because I already had before he posted those Old Testament quotes in the first place.Now fundamentally I agree with your position. No point of view or religion should be ridiculed or stereotyped. I'm merely saying that even as you guys are defending Islam you're using a whole slew of propaganda techniques and other rhetorical "dirty tricks" that don't prove anything. I mean really "Christian debaters have a heart attack when confronted with evidence." Please Iliad, how silly.I wrote:Now let me be clear, I do not think of Muslims as terrorists. Frigidus *sorry Comic Boy*, however, thinks that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all violent religions. Let's put that to the test. The Old Testament shows the law as it was. Christ was the fulfillment of the law and the Old Testament took a back seat to the New Testament (Especially the Gospels). Please show where Christ advocated violence in the synoptic Gospels. If you cannot, then how can you justify stereotyping an entire religion based on the writings that most of the Christians I've spoken with agree do not contain the way to salvation? It is by following the teachings of Christ that one becomes a Christian. What exactly is it in Christ's teaching that you find violent and reprehensible?
I hear that WBC is making suggestions of picketing Heath Ledger's funeral. I'm not sure how likely it is, but comparing anyone to them would be a bit of an overstatement...F1fth wrote:Be that as it may, the point I made was that Islam as inherently violent as Christianity. Whether you want to say they are violent or they aren't is up to you, but can't one is, and one isn't, else it's a double standard.
The problem is that people are using extremist groups to represent to whole religion of Islam. Do you think it would be fair for me to use the followers Westboro Baptist Church* to represent all of Christians? No, it wouldn't, and I don't. Neither should people with Islamic extremists.
*=Followers of Westboro Baptist Church are the people who picketed the funerals of U.S. soldiers killed in action, saying that they deserved to die, and that it was God's punishment for the military allowing gays to join.
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
Oh, man, I missed this one earlier. Just to clarify I don't think that Christianity, or any of the religions discussed in this thread are naturally violent. I was just pointing out that by ignoring actual practice and only looking at any particular religion's holy book and declaring a faith violent can be applied to many religions, and not just Islam. Sorry if I sounded like an ignorant jerk.CrazyAnglican wrote:Um sorry it took so long to write back. That last bit of evidence nearly killed me I just got out of the hospital.
Now fundamentally I agree with your position. No point of view or religion should be ridiculed or stereotyped. I'm merely saying that even as you guys are defending Islam you're using a whole slew of propaganda techniques and other rhetorical "dirty tricks" that don't prove anything. I mean really "Christian debaters have a heart attack when confronted with evidence." Please Iliad, how silly.I wrote:Now let me be clear, I do not think of Muslims as terrorists. Frigidus *sorry Comic Boy*, however, thinks that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all violent religions. Let's put that to the test. The Old Testament shows the law as it was. Christ was the fulfillment of the law and the Old Testament took a back seat to the New Testament (Especially the Gospels). Please show where Christ advocated violence in the synoptic Gospels. If you cannot, then how can you justify stereotyping an entire religion based on the writings that most of the Christians I've spoken with agree do not contain the way to salvation? It is by following the teachings of Christ that one becomes a Christian. What exactly is it in Christ's teaching that you find violent and reprehensible?
