Should we even talk about this?

[Army of GOD]

Well my ratheism is backed up by facts and logic! Your fantasy bullshit beliefs have been disproven time and time again by modern science and you refuse to let go of them! Fooooools!

You're supposed to be Butters-like. Not "praise Science!"

[john9blue]

You're supposed to be Butters-like. Not "praise Science!"

Satire is a harsh mistress it seems...

Also, the latest episode was amazing. Pimpin' ain't easy in South Park.

[PLAYER57832]

I realize that N/E Asians have greater logical capacities on average than Europeans, according to our best efforts to measure it.

Not true, in any regard.

Individuals have higher capacities than other individuals, but when you expand it to any large group, the only real differences in performance have to do with environment. This measure of performance is not a measure of "capacity" or ability. It is a measure of the environment.

Second, as Snorri said, the whole idea of how to assess intelligence in any way, even "logical capacity" is not clear at all. There are many studies that show how biased such "proven" assessments are. As I said above, it is no cooincidence that those creating the tests are white males and that white males, historically, have done best

I'm Irish. Does that make me racist? Would my opinion be invalidated if my 200 year old ancestors were from Japan instead of Ireland?

Your race is irrelevant. Your information is just wrong.

That you continue to believe it, does suggest you are listening to sources that are racist... and, in turn, might be yourself. However, just making the above statement does not automatically make you a racist, if you can cite legitimate sources. It makes you less than fully credible, but not necessarily racist.

I thought nothing was sacred to you guys but I guess I was wrong, you hold your ideal of perfect human equality to be sacred when it is so far detached from reality, so sacred that you're willing to limit man's quest for knowledge...

Huh?

In the first place, "perfect humanity" and IQ are a wide spread apart. Even if you take IQ tests and such at face value, they are no judge of a person's worth.

People with high IQs can be absolute jerks, lazy, and lack morals. People with low IQs can be outstanding citizens and contributors to society. That is what I consider "worth", even in human terms, not pure abstract IQ ratings.

[Neoteny]

What sick satisfaction do people get in doing things such as finding the average IQs of different races?

It comes down to a very basic question regarding whether or not their should be limits in man's quest for knowledge. It is a question of biblical proportions.

Truth may not always sync with our sense of what is or is not ideal..

look you fucking troglodyte, actual scientists don't have a working, agreed-upon definition of what intelligence even is, much less how it varies across populations. what i can tell you for certain is that intelligence is not a fucking iq score, which is about as reliable and accurate as goddamned phrenology -- and used to further the same bankrupt philosophy too.

another thing i can tell you for certain is that whatever intelligence is, it's doubtless an incredibly complex phenomena that expresses itself in a broad variety of ways and is determined by a huge interplay of genetic, environmental, and cultural factors. there is no "intelligence" gene, in the same way there isn't any "taste in movies" gene or "favorite mountain" gene or "likelihood of sporting a porn mustache" gene. saying as much is at best a ridiculous oversimplification and at worst complete fucking nonsense.

the final thing to point out is that race itself is a complete fiction. there is more genetic diversity amongst the different peoples of africa than there are between any two groups of humans outside africa. yet our definition of "black people" encompasses not only all these impossibly divergent populations in africa, but totally unconnected populations of people in australia, new zealand, melanesia, the carribbean, and other places (not to mention the populations who have lived in Europe and America for tens of generations), all of them removed from africa as much by genetics as they are by time and space.

the same goes for our coneption of "asian" (which in popular usage suggests far-east asians, instead of say, indians, iraqis, or most russians). this ill-defined group includes the japanese, chinese, korean, and tawainese amongst others, as well as phillipinos, hawaiians, and other polynesians, depending on who you ask.

besides flagging someone as non-european (and even then not reliably) the fact remains that our conception of race is completely useless in describing large populations of humans. at best it's a way of differentiating the various shades of skin color humans come in, but then you get idiots arguing over what constitutes a TRUE "black" or "white" or "asian" person, as if race exists outside of whatever arbitrary boundaries we set for it.

and then of course come idiots like you, who believe skin color is in some way indelibly tied to intelligence, a proposition as laughably simplistic and fucking wrong as saying that intelligence is tied to height, eye color, or stomach capacity. there is not only no reason to believe the two are connected, but merely suggesting as much shows you as a complete fucking dullard with no conception of the actual science behind human genetics. you should feel deep shame in even asking this fucking question, not just because it's plainly motivated by a latent racism that you've proudly displayed dozens of times in the past, but also because it's goddamned stupid even outside of that. you fucking simpleton.

Now Sultan, please tell us how you really feel...



Anyway, the post was a far bit more degrading than I would write and I would argue it hurts your position by making it even harder for opposed people to accept your views given that now to do so they would have to imply that they themselves are "goddamned stupid" (whether or not the label is deserved is another issue entirely).

Point is though, take out the insults and you have one fine goddamn post.

I disagree. First, Gabon spouts this shit all the time. He even hates children. I imagine seeing a black child score high on an SAT sends him into a rage comparable to that of the God Warrior's. Second, these people have gone through their lives having their opinions treated with respect. Not only are their opinions not based on reality (which is reason enough to bring them back down to earth), they are offensive. Clearly treating these absurd opinions with respect has not worked, and, it seems, has only acted to validate these opinions in the minds of the opinion-holders. It really needs to be illustrated to them that their concepts of race and intelligence, concepts that they obviously so poorly understand, are fucking stupid. It's for their own good.

[john9blue]

In the first place, "perfect humanity" and IQ are a wide spread apart. Even if you take IQ tests and such at face value, they are no judge of a person's worth.

People with high IQs can be absolute jerks, lazy, and lack morals. People with low IQs can be outstanding citizens and contributors to society. That is what I consider "worth", even in human terms, not pure abstract IQ ratings.

Absolutely I think that all humans have the same "value" or "worth". That's different from thinking that all people have the same abilities and are able to contribute to society in the same way. There is a difference between judging a single person based on race (racism) and judging an entire race based on race (as long as it is backed up by facts).

[thegreekdog]

All I got out of the first post was that Asians do better on the IQ test than everyone else and aborigines do the worst. I don't understand all the anger and back and forth here. I didn't find any post where Gabon said that Asians were smarter and aborigines dumber. You guys need to relax a little. I worry about your poor, feeble hearts.

[Frigidus]

All I got out of the first post was that Asians do better on the IQ test than everyone else and aborigines do the worst. I don't understand all the anger and back and forth here. I didn't find any post where Gabon said that Asians were smarter and aborigines dumber. You guys need to relax a little. I worry about your poor, feeble hearts.

Well, Gabon? Were you simply observing who scores best on IQ Tests or asserting that disparity in scores are symptomatic of varying average intelligence between races?

[PLAYER57832]

In the first place, "perfect humanity" and IQ are a wide spread apart. Even if you take IQ tests and such at face value, they are no judge of a person's worth.

People with high IQs can be absolute jerks, lazy, and lack morals. People with low IQs can be outstanding citizens and contributors to society. That is what I consider "worth", even in human terms, not pure abstract IQ ratings.

Absolutely I think that all humans have the same "value" or "worth". That's different from thinking that all people have the same abilities and are able to contribute to society in the same way. There is a difference between judging a single person based on race (racism) and judging an entire race based on race (as long as it is backed up by facts).

Except the idea you expressed is not really backed by facts.

It is only true if you ignore the extremely significant environmental factors. That is why it can fall into the realm of racism instead of real science. Scientific data regarding human behavior/abilities is often shakey at best. In this case, there is no agreement over even what factors ought to be measured for IQ (yes, I realize there is a lot of stuff out there claiming otherwise, but if you dig deeply, there is NO consensus -- just various people with ideas, many of whom have hidden agendas).

From the outset, you goofed by saying "capacity" instead of "ability". Ability can be measured. It is a current thing. Capacity is more ephemeral and very difficult to assess. What data is available seems to show that infants of every race (even if you agree with racial ideas -- and that whole idea is going out the window) have pretty equal potentials. Performance, however, differs. However, that is due to many complications (again, as best anyone can determine).

[DangerBoy]

All people vary. In many given tested populations, whites outstrip blacks, in numbers by a good measure. The conditions under which whites, blacks and Asians all exist differ (blacks are far more likely to be poor and uneducated in the US, for example). Those factors are KNOWN to influence IQ. They influence the higher IQ ranges, in particular at least as much and, in many cases, far more than genetics. The whole issue of lead exposure in children, for example, is still not fully understood. (we know its bad, but keep finding out its even worse than thought before) The effects of diet and excercise are also huge. Education and the perception a child is given of their ability to succeed influence IQ. A child may be tested with a high IQ at age 4, but if constantly told they are dumb, may well wind up significantly below average by high school. (in fact, in regards to blacks that last is very, very huge -- too many kids are plain and simply "taught" that they "cannot" learn, so of course they don't!)

Even if you take all of those factors into account, IQ is pretty much meaningless. It really and truly only measures a particular kind of narrow thinking. It has little or nothing to do with ability to succeed, create or contribute in measurable ways to society.

I can't believe I finally found something I agree with you on! I guess it was just a matter of time.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Absolutely I think that all humans have the same "value" or "worth". That's different from thinking that all people have the same abilities and are able to contribute to society in the same way. There is a difference between judging a single person based on race (racism) and judging an entire race based on race (as long as it is backed up by facts).

you're a fucking wart on the face of humanity

[bedub1]

Absolutely I think that all humans have the same "value" or "worth". That's different from thinking that all people have the same abilities and are able to contribute to society in the same way. There is a difference between judging a single person based on race (racism) and judging an entire race based on race (as long as it is backed up by facts).

you're a fucking wart on the face of humanity

white men can't jump

[john9blue]

you're a fucking wart on the face of humanity

The irony...

[PLAYER57832]

All people vary. In many given tested populations, whites outstrip blacks, in numbers by a good measure. The conditions under which whites, blacks and Asians all exist differ (blacks are far more likely to be poor and uneducated in the US, for example). Those factors are KNOWN to influence IQ. They influence the higher IQ ranges, in particular at least as much and, in many cases, far more than genetics. The whole issue of lead exposure in children, for example, is still not fully understood. (we know its bad, but keep finding out its even worse than thought before) The effects of diet and excercise are also huge. Education and the perception a child is given of their ability to succeed influence IQ. A child may be tested with a high IQ at age 4, but if constantly told they are dumb, may well wind up significantly below average by high school. (in fact, in regards to blacks that last is very, very huge -- too many kids are plain and simply "taught" that they "cannot" learn, so of course they don't!)

Even if you take all of those factors into account, IQ is pretty much meaningless. It really and truly only measures a particular kind of narrow thinking. It has little or nothing to do with ability to succeed, create or contribute in measurable ways to society.

I can't believe I finally found something I agree with you on! I guess it was just a matter of time.

LOL

[Phatscotty]

they are doing their part for obamas new race obsessed America.

The Obama voters "this will end racial tension in America forever"!

intelligent people "this will create a shit storm of racial tension"

Ta!

So we shouldn't elect a black person, because it will create racial tension?

nope, my point was simply they all had it wrong,and this post of course only applies to obama voters WHO THOUGHT electing a half white president would end racial tension, and I'm calling that completely naive. And as for your question that doesnt really relate, racial tension is childs play in America, I think we can handle it either way and have been making TREMENDOUS leaps and bounds into improving racial relations.

[SultanOfSurreal]

you're a fucking wart on the face of humanity

The irony...

no but seriously, you're a stupid, racist, fat fucking hick and i honestly wish you would kill yourself

[SultanOfSurreal]

i think it's time for an episode of ~~~FAVORITE GABONX MEMORIES~~~

there is a lot to choose from of course, because gabonx is a walking caricature of human ignorance. but i particularly enjoyed this thread, where, confronted with the full breadth of his own racism, gabonx defended himself by criticizing my taste in music

[PLAYER57832]

they are doing their part for obamas new race obsessed America.

The Obama voters "this will end racial tension in America forever"!

intelligent people "this will create a shit storm of racial tension"

Ta!

So we shouldn't elect a black person, because it will create racial tension?

nope, my point was simply they all had it wrong,and this post of course only applies to obama voters WHO THOUGHT electing a half white president would end racial tension, and I'm calling that completely naive. And as for your question that doesnt really relate, racial tension is childs play in America, I think we can handle it either way and have been making TREMENDOUS leaps and bounds into improving racial relations.

Anyone who thought electing a half white president would end racial tension was an idiot.

However, it was a milestone.

Martin Luther King was assassinated around the time I was born. I am old enough to have been taught (in kindergarten) that the "races should not mix" -- in a multi-racial public school in California (military base nearby).

I have just seen a black president elected. Is it over? Of course not! injustice and inequality will never end, even if some racial causes are being eroded. Still, when you stop and think about the distance we have traveled -- it is time to celebrate, not bemoan those few idiots who will never see reality.

[GabonX]

i think it's time for an episode of ~~~FAVORITE GABONX MEMORIES~~~

there is a lot to choose from of course, because gabonx is a walking caricature of human ignorance. but i particularly enjoyed this thread, where, confronted with the full breadth of his own racism, gabonx defended himself by criticizing my taste in music

Funny, I thought I did a rather good job of explaining how IT IS in that thread:

that was easy, i got gabonx to tacitly admit his whimpering, limp-wristed brand of racism pretty early this time

I'm not a racist and you don't even know what race I am.

I believe that most people never reach their potential in any given discipline. Most people would be excellent at most disciplines if they were to approach their potential in any one.

While the extent of a person's potential may be influenced by genetics and genetics follow the lines of race, there are individuals whose potential exceeds that of most people of their race.

Where my opinion differs from the Politically Correct perspective, is that I do not believe that all groups have the same general attributes as one another. This does not mean that one race is better at all things than another, but rather that most individuals of a given race may be more inclined to a particular discipline than most members of another. While a group may generally have lower potential than another in a given thing, they may be better at something else.
This is not completely relevant because individuals can defy the trends of their race and by the fact that bi-racial people exist.

Racial trends exist and there is a science devoted to the study of them:
Anthropology
More specifically Biological Anthropology

You should check this stuff out Sultan..If you think you can handle it :

I wasn't really satisfied with your response...

Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.

[PLAYER57832]

Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.

Explain.

[Frigidus]

Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.

Explain.

I'm thinking (and hoping) that he's trolling Sultan.

[Neoteny]

that was easy, i got gabonx to tacitly admit his whimpering, limp-wristed brand of racism pretty early this time

I'm not a racist and you don't even know what race I am.

I believe that most people never reach their potential in any given discipline. Most people would be excellent at most disciplines if they were to approach their potential in any one.

While the extent of a person's potential may be influenced by genetics and genetics follow the lines of race, there are individuals whose potential exceeds that of most people of their race.

Where my opinion differs from the Politically Correct perspective, is that I do not believe that all groups have the same general attributes as one another. This does not mean that one race is better at all things than another, but rather that most individuals of a given race may be more inclined to a particular discipline than most members of another. While a group may generally have lower potential than another in a given thing, they may be better at something else.
This is not completely relevant because individuals can defy the trends of their race and by the fact that bi-racial people exist.

Racial trends exist and there is a science devoted to the study of them:
Anthropology
More specifically Biological Anthropology

You should check this stuff out Sultan..If you think you can handle it :

I wasn't really satisfied with your response...

Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.

Why is your perspective of every science a warped, bastardized version of real science? Please stop. You're only embarrassing yourself.

[happy harry]

I have a distinct feeling of deja-vu here.

Anyhow, I will continue.

The siole reason for the domination, advanced thinking, hard working in built mentality of the north european peoples, was due to the hardships that were faced during their expansion into the north of europe.#

It is laughable that you have this idea that the cold, biting tundra of northern europe somehow had "more animals to domesticate"...as opposed to the warmer climates of africa, for instance.

What you fail to comprehend, is that there were no native crops in northern europe....corn ( wheat) was originally an unpalatable crop from the asian peninsula...this had been nurtured by the northern europeans into being an edible crop, to which we built a tolerance for, as with cows milk, too.

See, the reason why the white race has a higher level of industrious thought, is that the long baron winters, and lack of native wildlife readily available, caused said peoples to have to develop a strong sense of community, and also overcome far greater challenges, than, say africans, who had walking meals on their doorsteps, for whenever they could be assed to throw a spear.

This is one of the reasons why there is wide-famine issues within africa, as they just ate, and ate without any foresight for future production. They have not got the in-built tools to cope with forward thinking, or overcoming challenges...It's pretty simple.. white people had challenges = bigger brains.

"Give a black man a fish,. he eats for a day...give him a fishing rod, he tries to attack someone with it, and steal their fish"

[SultanOfSurreal]

I have a distinct feeling of deja-vu here.

Anyhow, I will continue.

The siole reason for the domination, advanced thinking, hard working in built mentality of the north european peoples, was due to the hardships that were faced during their expansion into the north of europe.#

It is laughable that you have this idea that the cold, biting tundra of northern europe somehow had "more animals to domesticate"...as opposed to the warmer climates of africa, for instance.

What you fail to comprehend, is that there were no native crops in northern europe....corn ( wheat) was originally an unpalatable crop from the asian peninsula...this had been nurtured by the northern europeans into being an edible crop, to which we built a tolerance for, as with cows milk, too.

See, the reason why the white race has a higher level of industrious thought, is that the long baron winters, and lack of native wildlife readily available, caused said peoples to have to develop a strong sense of community, and also overcome far greater challenges, than, say africans, who had walking meals on their doorsteps, for whenever they could be assed to throw a spear.

This is one of the reasons why there is wide-famine issues within africa, as they just ate, and ate without any foresight for future production. They have not got the in-built tools to cope with forward thinking, or overcoming challenges...It's pretty simple.. white people had challenges = bigger brains.

"Give a black man a fish,. he eats for a day...give him a fishing rod, he tries to attack someone with it, and steal their fish"

and here i thought gabon was the most disgusting person in this thread

[SultanOfSurreal]

i think it's time for an episode of ~~~FAVORITE GABONX MEMORIES~~~

there is a lot to choose from of course, because gabonx is a walking caricature of human ignorance. but i particularly enjoyed this thread, where, confronted with the full breadth of his own racism, gabonx defended himself by criticizing my taste in music

Funny, I thought I did a rather good job of explaining how IT IS in that thread:

that was easy, i got gabonx to tacitly admit his whimpering, limp-wristed brand of racism pretty early this time

I'm not a racist and you don't even know what race I am.

I believe that most people never reach their potential in any given discipline. Most people would be excellent at most disciplines if they were to approach their potential in any one.

While the extent of a person's potential may be influenced by genetics and genetics follow the lines of race, there are individuals whose potential exceeds that of most people of their race.

Where my opinion differs from the Politically Correct perspective, is that I do not believe that all groups have the same general attributes as one another. This does not mean that one race is better at all things than another, but rather that most individuals of a given race may be more inclined to a particular discipline than most members of another. While a group may generally have lower potential than another in a given thing, they may be better at something else.
This is not completely relevant because individuals can defy the trends of their race and by the fact that bi-racial people exist.

Racial trends exist and there is a science devoted to the study of them:
Anthropology
More specifically Biological Anthropology

You should check this stuff out Sultan..If you think you can handle it :

I wasn't really satisfied with your response...

Just to blow your mind Sultan, I'll take it a step further and tell you that I know of two undeniable genetic advantages that Blacks have over Whites...
.
.

this is the same tired argument that's been used by racists for 450 fucking years, you will have to try harder than that

[BigBallinStalin]

Is happy harry someone's multi for just posting his racist sentiments on here?