"Native Americans"

Frigidus · Post by **Frigidus** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:08 am

jonesthecurl wrote:Well, I was aware that US citizens know little about the rest of the world, but "yellow Indians" has left me completely flabbergasted.

Gast, meet flabber.

[five minutes later]

I've sat here for five minutes, trying to think of some way to express in more detail how stunned I am by this level of ignorance, and I can't.

I mean, I'm an eloquent, intelligent bloke with a huge vocabulary, and all I can think of to say is "Blimey, they think Indians are yellow!"

Quite, that would be Chinese. The Indians I know prefer "brown".

black elk speaks · Post by **black elk speaks** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:12 am

Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:
Creep Talk wrote:
Multi?! Double or nothing against it in your casino.
what is that supposed to mean?
Tit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_gaming

for Tat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping

i am pretty shocked to see that there are wiki pages for these two topics

especially given that there is a wiki page for just about everything under the sun. but what is really shocking is the smart ass way you posted that, making yourself actually look pretty lame.

Creep Talk · Post by **Creep Talk** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:16 am

black elk speaks wrote:
Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:
Creep Talk wrote:
Multi?! Double or nothing against it in your casino.
what is that supposed to mean?
Tit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_gaming

for Tat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping
i am pretty shocked to see that there are wiki pages for these two topics especially given that there is a wiki page for just about everything under the sun. but what is really shocking is the smart ass way you posted that, making yourself actually look pretty lame.

My fault. I should have known my "blankets" and "casino" comment would have been way more stereotypical than your "scalping"comment. You win. Way to stick up for your heritage. Un-Native Americans are all assholes.

black elk speaks · Post by **black elk speaks** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:20 am

you're the one that came along just to insult native americans. jones was just asking a question and you and other ass holes have to trounce on the chance to be stupid fuckers. f*ck off and go to hell.

Creep Talk · Post by **Creep Talk** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:26 am

black elk speaks wrote:f*ck off and go to hell.

Excellent point with intelligent rebuttal. Game, set, match. Debate goes to you.

black elk speaks · Post by **black elk speaks** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:28 am

Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:f*ck off and go to hell.
Excellent point with intelligent rebuttal. Game, set, match. Debate goes to you.

i didn't think that there was a debate happening. there is no arguing that you are an idiot.

Creep Talk · Post by **Creep Talk** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:33 am

black elk speaks wrote:
Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:f*ck off and go to hell.
Excellent point with intelligent rebuttal. Game, set, match. Debate goes to you.
i didn't think that there was a debate happening. there is no arguing that you are an idiot.

I'm sure that's exactly what people thought when you tattled on me in C&R and the report fell flat on it's face. Grow some thicker skin "Dances with Cupcake".

black elk speaks · Post by **black elk speaks** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:35 am

Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:
Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:f*ck off and go to hell.
Excellent point with intelligent rebuttal. Game, set, match. Debate goes to you.
i didn't think that there was a debate happening. there is no arguing that you are an idiot.
I'm sure that's exactly what people thought when you tattled on me in C&R and the report fell flat on it's face. Grow some thicker skin "Dances with Cupcake".

i didn't tattle on you.

Creep Talk · Post by **Creep Talk** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:46 am

black elk speaks wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:Yeah he's on my ignore, mostly because he's a loud mouthed '?' rank. As far as racism goes, well, I've seen worse here without any punishment. I'd be calling him out more for Thread Hijacking. If it applies to Flame Wars, it should apply doubly so for Chatterbox.
yeah, you're right. ti the foe list you go.

Sweet surrender. Black Elk? Reservation for one? Right this way.

Iliad · Post by **Iliad** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:14 am

black elk speaks wrote:
Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:i don't think that anyone is rejecting their fate, as that seems impossible to do. but your callous references deserve to be called for what they are. stupid. i should like to scalp you, if only i knew where you were.
Scalping?! Callous, stereotypical references say what?
there is nothing steriotypical about the fact that tribal warriors scalped their enemies. now you f*ck off like the rancid multi that you are.

Gotta love the smell of irony

muy_thaiguy · Post by **muy_thaiguy** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:06 am

Iliad wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:
Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:i don't think that anyone is rejecting their fate, as that seems impossible to do. but your callous references deserve to be called for what they are. stupid. i should like to scalp you, if only i knew where you were.
Scalping?! Callous, stereotypical references say what?
there is nothing steriotypical about the fact that tribal warriors scalped their enemies. now you f*ck off like the rancid multi that you are.
Gotta love the smell of irony

How is there irony?

Creep Talk · Post by **Creep Talk** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:13 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:
Iliad wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:
Creep Talk wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:i don't think that anyone is rejecting their fate, as that seems impossible to do. but your callous references deserve to be called for what they are. stupid. i should like to scalp you, if only i knew where you were.
Scalping?! Callous, stereotypical references say what?
there is nothing steriotypical about the fact that tribal warriors scalped their enemies. now you f*ck off like the rancid multi that you are.
Gotta love the smell of irony
How is there irony?

more like hypocricy.

pimpdave · Post by **pimpdave** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:04 am

jonesthecurl wrote:Well, I was aware that US citizens know little about the rest of the world, but "yellow Indians" has left me completely flabbergasted.

Gast, meet flabber.

[five minutes later]

I've sat here for five minutes, trying to think of some way to express in more detail how stunned I am by this level of ignorance, and I can't.

I mean, I'm an eloquent, intelligent bloke with a huge vocabulary, and all I can think of to say is "Blimey, they think Indians are yellow!"

Now now. Not all of us do. Just your stereotypical American thinks the stereotypes are based on anything but ignorance.

Wait, my head is about to explode.

Anarkistsdream · Post by **Anarkistsdream** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:44 am

Actually, American Indian is what you must be called in the media. It's AP style.

Native American is also used.

I call myself Apache... So... I don't use the other terms.

jonesthecurl · Post by **jonesthecurl** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:02 am

pimpdave wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:Well, I was aware that US citizens know little about the rest of the world, but "yellow Indians" has left me completely flabbergasted.

Gast, meet flabber.

[five minutes later]

I've sat here for five minutes, trying to think of some way to express in more detail how stunned I am by this level of ignorance, and I can't.

I mean, I'm an eloquent, intelligent bloke with a huge vocabulary, and all I can think of to say is "Blimey, they think Indians are yellow!"

Now now. Not all of us do. Just your stereotypical American thinks the stereotypes are based on anything but ignorance.

Wait, my head is about to explode.

um, yeah, let's pretend I said "many US citizens". Sorry.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:08 am

I always heard that "Indian" was fine, but that "Injun" was highly offensive.

Not sure why...

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:13 am

I know you wanted true tribe members to answer, but since I have not seen any such responses, here is mine.

The best thing is to refer to an individual tribe. If that is not possible or appropriate, then "Native American" is the official term. But, that is more something brought about by the PC media, rather than something really coming from the tribes themselves. In practice, most don't mind and even use themselves the terms "Indian" or "American Indian". Mostly, they ahve much bigger concerns than which term you use. They would be more concerned, for example, about how you teach your kids about the culture and values of local tribes, perhaps how you deal with Thanksgiving stories, than whether you refer to the whole group as "Native American" or "American Indian". Mostly, it is a matter of clarity. If you say "Indian", it is not necessarily clear if you mean folks from India or folks from the pre-Columbian Americas.

Overall, the tribal cultures vary a great deal. In general, issues of names and such come up when people are pushing for political gains. They become symbols of the poltical fight, even when not actually historically accurate or culturally valid.

A not-so humerous story ... One time while taking an Asian studies class, I referred to something as "Indian". A young boy overheard and said something to his mom, who quite loudly told her son that she had told them to they were "natives", NOT "Indian". I replied" Gee, I did not know folks in India were Native Americans!" Also, though I did not say it then, one thing that WILL get most Native Americans/American Indians upset is calling them "natives". Exept in very specific contexts (native/indigenous populations versus non-native or Indigenous populations), that IS considered quite offensive by just aobut everyone I have ever met of tribal heritage.

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:15 am

Anarkistsdream wrote:Actually, American Indian is what you must be called in the media. It's AP style.

Native American is also used.

I call myself Apache... So... I don't use the other terms.

OOPS, missed your response... and did not realize you were Apache, either.

Anyway, I guess what I said jives with your response, so I will leave it stand.

jonesthecurl · Post by **jonesthecurl** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:41 am

I may be wrong, but as I understood it, most (or at least many) tribal names are names given to the tribe by either european settlers or other tribes - each tribe's name for itslef (as in most of the world) being simply "Us" or "People" or something similar, in their own language. I'm not sure if that's the case with the Apache. If so (ie if the APache have another name for themself), what is it? ANd would one Apache use it when speaking to another?

jonesthecurl · Post by **jonesthecurl** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:42 am

...and can I learn to take my little finger off the SHift button BEfore THe THird letter?

muy_thaiguy · Post by **muy_thaiguy** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:40 am

jonesthecurl wrote:I may be wrong, but as I understood it, most (or at least many) tribal names are names given to the tribe by either european settlers or other tribes - each tribe's name for itslef (as in most of the world) being simply "Us" or "People" or something similar, in their own language. I'm not sure if that's the case with the Apache. If so (ie if the APache have another name for themself), what is it? ANd would one Apache use it when speaking to another?

It depends on the tribe, i think. Most had their own language, though they would call themselves by their tribal name (Crow, Cheyenne, et...).

koop · Post by **koop** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:41 am

red injun works for me

Anarkistsdream · Post by **Anarkistsdream** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:55 am

jonesthecurl wrote:I may be wrong, but as I understood it, most (or at least many) tribal names are names given to the tribe by either european settlers or other tribes - each tribe's name for itslef (as in most of the world) being simply "Us" or "People" or something similar, in their own language. I'm not sure if that's the case with the Apache. If so (ie if the APache have another name for themself), what is it? ANd would one Apache use it when speaking to another?

Well, even more convoluted is the fact that there were many types of Apache. I am Lipan Apache, but there are other variations.

Lipan is what we would call ourselves, but we were of a greater denomination that is Apache- due to where the tribe settled.

Lipan is also the variant of the language that would be spoken- I don't know any, so don't ask.

jonesthecurl · Post by **jonesthecurl** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:04 am

Thanks, Nark. Good information.
I wish I could speak my Dad's native language - Welsh. It's a lovely language, but I know only a few words.

Anarkistsdream · Post by **Anarkistsdream** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:17 am

jonesthecurl wrote:Thanks, Nark. Good information.
I wish I could speak my Dad's native language - Welsh. It's a lovely language, but I know only a few words.

Welsh is amazing.

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