Be Aware C C automatically will bill you

[Dukasaur]

Absolutely nothing wrong with reminding people. However, even with a reminder there are people who will forget to renew, and that represents a lot of lost revenue. That is why 90% of Internet sites use a subscription system nowadays.

The problem isn't with the idea of a subscription. It's with the lack of notice with the renewal. Can we count you on the notifying people that their is a renewal coming up side now?

What makes you think I have anything to do with it?

That's the business side of CC. Neither I nor any other mod has any say in it. We do our best to explain management's decisions to the members, but we are not consulted about those decisions.

Dodge.

Whatever. I guess that's your phrase for the week.

Not really, mate. Just an accurate description. If you're not consulted about decisions, how can you say anything about them? At some point, surely, they consult you about what they have decided.

So how does it work Duke?

There's consultations about some things, but never about money issues or the actual business end of the site. I've been here through all three owners, and none of them have ever asked the mods' input into anything dealing with the business part or the site revenues. About the community part, yes. We are asked our opinion about things like tournament rules or upcoming events or forum policing. But about the business end of the site, never.

[IcePack]

Why not remind people before their subscription is up for renewal? Seems like it would fix the problem.

Interesting, I sign up for quite a few subscriptions on the iTunes Store. Guess what exactly zero of them do?

It's a subscription, it's directly in the name. If you don't want it anymore you simply go to accounts and unsubscribe.

You didn't really answer the question. That other people do the same seems like a bit of a dodge.

It's not a dodge at all. It's a proven business model that most Internet games have adopted. CC would be stupid to not adopt what has been proven to work and stick with what doesn't.

It's a dodge- He posted no reason for why CC shouldn't do it, which was the question, and only said that other people do it. Other posters have noted how flawed that argument is, so I'll let you deal with them.

What, though, is the problem with reminding people?

Sym you seem like a smart guy from what I've seen on some of your posts. But seriously here?

There is no dodge of anything here. I did answer (maybe not the way you wanted or expected) but the fact that other similar businesses do similar activities IS the reason I was saying CC shouldn't.

The problem isn't with the idea of a subscription. It's with the lack of notice with the renewal. Can we count you on the notifying people that their is a renewal coming up side now?

What makes you think I have anything to do with it?

That's the business side of CC. Neither I nor any other mod has any say in it. We do our best to explain management's decisions to the members, but we are not consulted about those decisions.

Dodge.

Whatever. I guess that's your phrase for the week.

Not really, mate. Just an accurate description. If you're not consulted about decisions, how can you say anything about them? At some point, surely, they consult you about what they have decided.

So how does it work Duke?

There's consultations about some things, but never about money issues or the actual business end of the site. I've been here through all three owners, and none of them have ever asked the mods' input into anything dealing with the business part or the site revenues. About the community part, yes. We are asked our opinion about things like tournament rules or upcoming events or forum policing. But about the business end of the site, never.

Not only that but it's not physically possible. Mods don't have access to membership expiry dates nor memberships email addresses in general so saying "can we count on you to notify people now" is you know, impossible. Even if you wanted to.

[riskllama]

quit trolling the good hearted people that volunteer their time @ CC, sym. jesus - such a useless pustule, you are.

[owenshooter]

i think at the end of the day, what is being asked for is not that big of a deal. just a heads up notification that you are about to be charged. is that something that has to be rung through the suggestions forum for 4-10 years, before getting a look by ownership? this isn't something that the mods/admins can say, "hey, man... we have a lot of traction on the topic of alerting members prior to billing them for subscriptions they may not be aware of." i don't think this is such a big thing to ask members of the community team to do for the community... it just seems like a really easy problem to fix...-Jésus noir

[IcePack]

i think at the end of the day, what is being asked for is not that big of a deal. just a heads up notification that you are about to be charged. is that something that has to be rung through the suggestions forum for 4-10 years, before getting a look by ownership? this isn't something that the mods/admins can say, "hey, man... we have a lot of traction on the topic of alerting members prior to billing them for subscriptions they may not be aware of." i don't think this is such a big thing to ask members of the community team to do for the community... it just seems like a really easy problem to fix...-Jésus noir

At the end of the day, there's only 1 person who can "fix" it. This isn't something that mods / team leads can do anything about.

[Dukasaur]

i think at the end of the day, what is being asked for is not that big of a deal. just a heads up notification that you are about to be charged. is that something that has to be rung through the suggestions forum for 4-10 years, before getting a look by ownership? this isn't something that the mods/admins can say, "hey, man... we have a lot of traction on the topic of alerting members prior to billing them for subscriptions they may not be aware of." i don't think this is such a big thing to ask members of the community team to do for the community... it just seems like a really easy problem to fix...-Jésus noir

I dunno. Does Netflix send you a letter every time they renew your subscription?

In truth, I did write to BW early on about this, and was basically told to mind my own business. Icepack got a little further arguing about it, and got BW to change the wording so that "subscription" is more explicitly and prominently spelled out. I think that at this point BW feels he's done a fair job of compromising on this issue.

I know 13 years ago I bought my wife a pogo membership, not reading the fine print and not realizing it was an annual subscription. I was outraged when a year later it was auto-renewed without any notification. "WTF is this on my credit card?" But that was 12 years ago, and since then, most websites have gone to automatic renewals or subscriptions. You're not going to turn back the clock. Auto-renewing subscriptions have proven themselves as a business model, and nobody's going back to the old ways. Now that it's not a new thing, I just accept that this is how things are done nowadays. I still don't like it, but I can't argue with it. I really can't ask a struggling business like CC to hold itself to a higher standard than a multi-million dollar operation like pogo.

[Barney Rubble]

Maybe automatic billing wouldnt piss people off so much if this site spent some of the money fixing the lag !
BR

[ronsizzle]

i think at the end of the day, what is being asked for is not that big of a deal. just a heads up notification that you are about to be charged. is that something that has to be rung through the suggestions forum for 4-10 years, before getting a look by ownership? this isn't something that the mods/admins can say, "hey, man... we have a lot of traction on the topic of alerting members prior to billing them for subscriptions they may not be aware of." i don't think this is such a big thing to ask members of the community team to do for the community... it just seems like a really easy problem to fix...-Jésus noir

At the end of the day, there's only 1 person who can "fix" it. This isn't something that mods / team leads can do anything about.

Well what I'm saying is that pink was too much the first time and was still too much the 2nd time.

I'm glad my 25$ is coming due. Think I'll keep it.

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:41 pm

7 days to go

Yep. I got a months notice it was coming due. I ignored it.

I remember the good old days when they reminded you....

[Metsfanmax]

If you're not consulted about decisions, how can you say anything about them? At some point, surely, they consult you about what they have decided.

We can have decisions communicated to us without having been consulted on them. This is the case with business operations on this site. There is no expectation that any of us have any meaningful input on topics like how much premium membership should cost, or whether it should be a recurring subscription. It may be the case that the administration will listen more carefully to the views of the mods in general, but our role gives us no special license to say anything in particular on business topics.

[TeeGee]

you have 2 choices
a recurring subscription $US29.99 or pay 1 off for 3500 conquer credits.

nobody is forced on the subscription, and those that do chose subscription save $5.01 per year

[2dimes]

I still don't like it, but I can't argue with it. I really can't ask a struggling business like CC to hold itself to a higher standard than a multi-million dollar operation like pogo.

Wouldn't it make sense to switch back to a practice that would help make people think, "That's decent, thank you." In the off chance it could help them want to continue to pay, so they might sign up voluntarily twice more, 3 more, 4 etc.. Instead of tricking them to force them to pay once more but possibly making them so angry, they hold a grudge for 12 years and might never pay again?

[Metsfanmax]

I still don't like it, but I can't argue with it. I really can't ask a struggling business like CC to hold itself to a higher standard than a multi-million dollar operation like pogo.

Wouldn't it make sense to switch back to a practice that would help make people think, "That's decent, thank you." In the off chance it could help them want to continue to pay, so they might sign up voluntarily twice more, 3 more, 4 etc.. Instead of tricking them to force them to pay once more but possibly making them so angry, they hold a grudge for 12 years and might never pay again?

Based on the number of internet sites that use this subscription model: no.

[grifftron]

Just got my premium back.

Just unsubscribed thanks to this post.

Thanks gents for the heads up, people are tricky these days, I don't mind paying 30 bones for entertainment but it will be on my terms.

-griff

[ronsizzle]

you have 2 choices
a recurring subscription $US29.99 or pay 1 off for 3500 conquer credits.

nobody is forced on the subscription, and those that do chose subscription save $5.01 per year

that is completely idiotic. you subscribe and then unsubscribe.

are you advocating that people pay $5.01 more a year? just tell them to unsubscribe...

maybe some websites get away with it. but this is an interactive website that customers help make better by volunteering their time whether it be making maps, or add ons, or this forum or moderating.

i am not a big gamer or website forum kind of guy. this makes me angry though, and has stopped me from paying in the past....

[Dukasaur]

you have 2 choices
a recurring subscription $US29.99 or pay 1 off for 3500 conquer credits.

nobody is forced on the subscription, and those that do chose subscription save $5.01 per year

that is completely idiotic. you subscribe and then unsubscribe.

are you advocating that people pay $5.01 more a year? just tell them to unsubscribe...

maybe some websites get away with it. but this is an interactive website that customers help make better by volunteering their time whether it be making maps, or add ons, or this forum or moderating.

i am not a big gamer or website forum kind of guy. this makes me angry though, and has stopped me from paying in the past....

Does it stop you from maintaining your Netflix membership?

This is the part I don't understand. I get being pissed off when you come across this business model for the first time, like I was when I first found about it on pogo. But now that it's been the normal way of business on the Internet for 10 years, why is it still pissing you off. And more importantly, why take it out on CC? If you're not cancelling your Netflix membership because this is how they do it, why would your cancel your CC membership?

[2dimes]

I still don't like it, but I can't argue with it. I really can't ask a struggling business like CC to hold itself to a higher standard than a multi-million dollar operation like pogo.

Wouldn't it make sense to switch back to a practice that would help make people think, "That's decent, thank you." In the off chance it could help them want to continue to pay, so they might sign up voluntarily twice more, 3 more, 4 etc.. Instead of tricking them to force them to pay once more but possibly making them so angry, they hold a grudge for 12 years and might never pay again?

Based on the number of internet sites that use this subscription model: no.

Other sites that don't need retention because the volume is in the millions. They are different no?

[ronsizzle]

you have 2 choices
a recurring subscription $US29.99 or pay 1 off for 3500 conquer credits.

nobody is forced on the subscription, and those that do chose subscription save $5.01 per year

that is completely idiotic. you subscribe and then unsubscribe.

are you advocating that people pay $5.01 more a year? just tell them to unsubscribe...

maybe some websites get away with it. but this is an interactive website that customers help make better by volunteering their time whether it be making maps, or add ons, or this forum or moderating.

i am not a big gamer or website forum kind of guy. this makes me angry though, and has stopped me from paying in the past....

Does it stop you from maintaining your Netflix membership?

This is the part I don't understand. I get being pissed off when you come across this business model for the first time, like I was when I first found about it on pogo. But now that it's been the normal way of business on the Internet for 10 years, why is it still pissing you off. And more importantly, why take it out on CC? If you're not cancelling your Netflix membership because this is how they do it, why would your cancel your CC membership?

Netflix tells you it is a subscription, and that you will be billed monthly. CC did not. i also dont think you understand....im not pissed off. $29 doesnt piss me off. i just disagree with a practice.

[BrutalBob]

you have 2 choices
a recurring subscription $US29.99 or pay 1 off for 3500 conquer credits.

nobody is forced on the subscription, and those that do chose subscription save $5.01 per year

that is completely idiotic. you subscribe and then unsubscribe.

are you advocating that people pay $5.01 more a year? just tell them to unsubscribe...

maybe some websites get away with it. but this is an interactive website that customers help make better by volunteering their time whether it be making maps, or add ons, or this forum or moderating.

i am not a big gamer or website forum kind of guy. this makes me angry though, and has stopped me from paying in the past....

Does it stop you from maintaining your Netflix membership?

This is the part I don't understand. I get being pissed off when you come across this business model for the first time, like I was when I first found about it on pogo. But now that it's been the normal way of business on the Internet for 10 years, why is it still pissing you off. And more importantly, why take it out on CC? If you're not cancelling your Netflix membership because this is how they do it, why would your cancel your CC membership?

Netflix tells you it is a subscription, and that you will be billed monthly. CC did not. i also dont think you understand....im not pissed off. $29 doesnt piss me off. i just disagree with a practice.

Thats the point. Regardless of whether you get a reminder, its not clear even when you sign up that it is a recurring subscription. For those that assume all subscriptions are recurring, how hard would it be to add a single word to the Store page or the invoice confirmation page to clear it up.

Theres enough people that are confused about it to warrant the four minutes it would take to clarify the situation.

Really, how hard would it be?

[owenshooter]

i think at the end of the day, what is being asked for is not that big of a deal. just a heads up notification that you are about to be charged. is that something that has to be rung through the suggestions forum for 4-10 years, before getting a look by ownership? this isn't something that the mods/admins can say, "hey, man... we have a lot of traction on the topic of alerting members prior to billing them for subscriptions they may not be aware of." i don't think this is such a big thing to ask members of the community team to do for the community... it just seems like a really easy problem to fix...-Jésus noir

I dunno. Does Netflix send you a letter every time they renew your subscription?

yes, they do. thank you for proving my point. wonderful analogy...-Jésus noir

[ronsizzle]

you have 2 choices
a recurring subscription $US29.99 or pay 1 off for 3500 conquer credits.

nobody is forced on the subscription, and those that do chose subscription save $5.01 per year

that is completely idiotic. you subscribe and then unsubscribe.

are you advocating that people pay $5.01 more a year? just tell them to unsubscribe...

maybe some websites get away with it. but this is an interactive website that customers help make better by volunteering their time whether it be making maps, or add ons, or this forum or moderating.

i am not a big gamer or website forum kind of guy. this makes me angry though, and has stopped me from paying in the past....

Does it stop you from maintaining your Netflix membership?

This is the part I don't understand. I get being pissed off when you come across this business model for the first time, like I was when I first found about it on pogo. But now that it's been the normal way of business on the Internet for 10 years, why is it still pissing you off. And more importantly, why take it out on CC? If you're not cancelling your Netflix membership because this is how they do it, why would your cancel your CC membership?

Netflix tells you it is a subscription, and that you will be billed monthly. CC did not. i also dont think you understand....im not pissed off. $29 doesnt piss me off. i just disagree with a practice.

Thats the point. Regardless of whether you get a reminder, its not clear even when you sign up that it is a recurring subscription. For those that assume all subscriptions are recurring, how hard would it be to add a single word to the Store page or the invoice confirmation page to clear it up.

Theres enough people that are confused about it to warrant the four minutes it would take to clarify the situation.

Really, how hard would it be?

the reason it wont happen is it is a scam...pure and simple. this site used to be on an upward roll, and now it has been on a downward slide for a while. he needs that "pizza money", as someone stated previously, or he would not use such techniques.

[BoganGod]

Why not remind people before their subscription is up for renewal? Seems like it would fix the problem.

Interesting, I sign up for quite a few subscriptions on the iTunes Store. Guess what exactly zero of them do?

It's a subscription, it's directly in the name. If you don't want it anymore you simply go to accounts and unsubscribe.

You didn't really answer the question. That other people do the same seems like a bit of a dodge.

It's not a dodge at all. It's a proven business model that most Internet games have adopted. CC would be stupid to not adopt what has been proven to work and stick with what doesn't.

It's a dodge- He posted no reason for why CC shouldn't do it, which was the question, and only said that other people do it. Other posters have noted how flawed that argument is, so I'll let you deal with them.

What, though, is the problem with reminding people?

Absolutely nothing wrong with reminding people. However, even with a reminder there are people who will forget to renew, and that represents a lot of lost revenue. That is why 90% of Internet sites use a subscription system nowadays.

We know what sites you've been frequenting dukysnore. 99% of porn sites are subscription base(is that the right number duk?), porn sites make up roughly 60% of the net........ You do the maths kiddies

[Symmetry]

Icepack, you're kinda pulling a Kelly-Anne Conway routine, right?

[IcePack]

Icepack, you're kinda pulling a Kelly-Anne Conway routine, right?

And what is that exactly?

[Symmetry]

Icepack, you're kinda pulling a Kelly-Anne Conway routine, right?

And what is that exactly?

Called it.

[Symmetry]

Just tell people that they're gonna be billed. That isn't a huge issue.