Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus [warned]

[BoganGod]

Am hoping these tit for tat threads won't become a regular thing.

Well, from what I understand, this is just the beginning as Josko said that he is going to make more accusations. Should be interesting.

The rules need to be enforced equally for everyone, what is the point of rules if not?. If nobody else did this kind of account sitting abuse, then why you are affraid that new reports will be done? then it does not exist evidence to write new reports.

Josko I think you have misunderstood what Commander is saying.

[Rodion]

Commander, are you discussing the current C&A report or the future ones you're expecting?

I ask that because the current one seems to have enough evidence to be considered more than "without basis".

[Commander9]

Commander, are you discussing the current C&A report or the future ones you're expecting?

I ask that because the current one seems to have enough evidence to be considered more than "without basis".

I was talking about Josko's accusation in the live chat, not this report. I was responding to Josko's post, who responded to mine. I think he misunderstood my post and I also wanted to explain and build up on what was said.

[josko.ri]

I was talking about Josko's accusation in the live chat, not this report.

then why this is the place for speaking about that? in live chat you said: "if you think that I have abused the site, report it". I answered "ok". so if anytime a report against you comes, you will have chance to defend yourself. this one is about Chariot of fire, Pedronicus and several TOFU members, not about our conversation in live chat.

[Commander9]

then why this is the place for speaking about that? in live chat you said: "if you think that I have abused the site, report it". I answered "ok". so if anytime a report against you comes, you will have chance to defend yourself. this one is about Chariot of fire, Pedronicus and several TOFU members, not about our conversation in live chat.

I was generally talking on-topic before your response. Once you have misunderstood me and answered it differently (I don't think you were intentionally trying to twist my words), I had to answer and I had to explain why I said what I said. That's it.

[eddie2]

lets just say one thing god help everyone on this site if tofu kort clash again in the ccup or cl4 i think c and a will have to shut down or employ the whole site to keep things under control.

[Rodion]

More evidence.

Game 9213561
Game 9199901 - 2011-06-13 23:58:41 - jpeter15: CF is on vacation but getting to most of his turns, he asked that a few of us cover any turns that look like he may not get to them
Game 9043460 - 2011-06-14 11:50:57 - cachejob: he's not getting to most of his turns. while on vacation he's rarely gatting a chance to take his turns. we assume he won't make them and are pleasantly surprised when he manages to.

We already have a precedent that appears to be specifically written for these 3 games.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 9#p3229429

Should we be thankful when you are on vacation, and you are supposedly not available to be online at the time, but you still manage to take some turns while leaving other games for your sitter? Perhaps it just gives more complication as it becomes suspicious if you really are unavailable in the first place or if you just assigned someone to play some specific games for you.

Dako filed a C&A report against Josko for gamechat trolling when he wanted to know what was going on in these 3 suspicious games. Josko was told to leave the chat and post it in the appropriate forums, so here it is.

[pascalleke]

this C & A is becoming more and more a personal thing to express some loving and hating here

As for my personal note ; why u wonder if they wanne bring the evidence more private josko ? U did the same i believe.
And wenn i am vacation i would be trying to do my turns myself but sometimes i would to drunk or to waisted ( or being on a day trip or maybee 2 days , etc , etc ) to come online in time tough so dont think there would be a really precedent set there on the last case u state , Rodion.

I just did a fast read because to my opinion this is getting more a personal "eye for an eye " thingie so not really more to add then just that . But heck thats just my personal idea on this .

[barterer2002]

It seems to me that there are two issues here.

1). Vacations. People go on vacation and will sometimes be able to take a turn but not every day. Is it more desirable to 1). Have them never take a turn while on vacation because they won't be able to take all of them. 2). Take turns when they can and have account sitters for the rest or 3). Not take any of their turns while on vacation so that its clear that they'll have sitters for the entire time. My personal feeling is that the second option is the best however KA seems to be indicating that 3 is the proper thing to do here.

2). Account sitting for games that a player could have taken a turn in. As noted in the Josko thread, I think that josko hasn't been alone in doing this. Whether or not the ones involved here are I don't know but assume the canda mods can figure that out. If they are, I'll agree with Josko that the punishment should be equal if the infraction is equal.

To me, the motivations of josko here are irrelevant.

Truthfully though, what the C and A mods ruled in the Josko case is that people should not announce when they're sitting and it'll be OK but if they announce and the player could have taken the turn its a problem. Personally I think that's a bad ruling but its the one that CC seems to want

[comic boy]

Josko seriously you act like a 5 year old kid in a playground , you can accuse every player on this site if you wish but it wont justify the cheating you have already been found guilty of.

[Dako]

Load entire log and chat buttons should work fine in archived games as well now.

[Incandenza]

1). Vacations. People go on vacation and will sometimes be able to take a turn but not every day. Is it more desirable to 1). Have them never take a turn while on vacation because they won't be able to take all of them. 2). Take turns when they can and have account sitters for the rest or 3). Not take any of their turns while on vacation so that its clear that they'll have sitters for the entire time. My personal feeling is that the second option is the best however KA seems to be indicating that 3 is the proper thing to do here.

It seemed to me more that KA was thinking aloud, rather than handing down some sort of edict. However, I'm in agreement with you that option 2 is the only reasonable compromise for players who are out of town (I think we need to stop using the word "vacation" as a catch-all term for people being away from home, since not everyone is sippin' umbrella drinks on a beach every time they leave home).

[niMic]

Josko seriously you act like a 5 year old kid in a playground , you can accuse every player on this site if you wish but it wont justify the cheating you have already been found guilty of.

If it's cheating, then there sure are a lot of cheaters around. As we'll see.

[drunkmonkey]

I think I get it now. The accused does get the benefit of the doubt, but only if they haven't just beat you in a challenge.

[comic boy]

Josko seriously you act like a 5 year old kid in a playground , you can accuse every player on this site if you wish but it wont justify the cheating you have already been found guilty of.

If it's cheating, then there sure are a lot of cheaters around. As we'll see.

There are degrees of guilt , josko was busted because his abuse was systematic over a long period.

[lord voldemort]

This is humorous to me....

Just quickly...all this back and forth bitching that you guys have been doing for so long
a) we are over...be mature fucking adults for a change.
b) all this is leading to is a complete ban on account sitting....Does anyone want that??

Seriously your e-peni....wait e-vagina is so fucking huge right now

[pascalleke]

This is humorous to me....

Just quickly...all this back and forth bitching that you guys have been doing for so long
a) we are over...be mature fucking adults for a change.
b) all this is leading to is a complete ban on account sitting....Does anyone want that??

Seriously your e-peni....wait e-vagina is so fucking huge right now

Think u said it all here perfectly
Hope it will be all worth it for u ladies

[josko.ri]

b) all this is leading to is a complete ban on account sitting....Does anyone want that??

I think the whole site wants that because then josko will not be able to win his games because of his cheating so it will then exist a chance that KORT loose a clan war because they are incapable to win without cheating. Hopefully the game will then be much fairer than it is now.

[eddie2]

ok thanks to the lady in red in live chat i found the case i was on about earlier.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5#p3143926

in this case it is clearly stated that games from 5 months ago it was t9o late to report them.

now lets look at the time line for your games. anything up to game 13 in your list was pre this report.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... d#p2901843

from what i remember i was the first person reporting this type of abuse with sitters. it was noted and from what i remember jp actually got involved telling all clans to be more careful with who they were sitting for. so in effect this case is built on 3 games.

in one of them games it was announced that the player was away for 1 week. you have not provided any evidence to contradict these 3 games. ie speed games being played or forum posts buy the said players. and in my eyes and i think most peoples anything pre the above case cannot be used because that was when the rules surronding it were made more clear.

[josko.ri]

in this case it is clearly stated that games from 5 months ago it was t9o late to report them.

In both cases against me and against Blitzaholic there were used some evidence older than 5 months. in those cases you didnt feel necessity to post that evidence older than 5 months are not valid. I wonder why then you post it now in this case if you didnt post it in other similar cases? do you have double standards which change from case to case?

I already posted in the first post why this case is opened now and not before:

Most of the account sitting abuse examples are from 2010, and I decided to report it now because until now I was not aware that this (sitting for a player that was earlier that day online and therefore able to take his turn) is account sitting abuse, but now I am aware, so I think that anyone who did it should be equally punished.

The rules before my case was resolved were not precisely defining what is "gaining tactical advantage". now, it is precisely defined that sitting for a player who earlier that day was not on vacation and was online to play his own turn but he choose to not do it and leave it for sitter is gaining tactical advantage and against the site rules.

I could not come with this report several months ago when most of the abuse happened because on that time I thought that sitting for a player who earlier that day was not on vacation and was online to play his own turn but he choose to not do it and leave it for sitter is not against the site rules. now I am aware that I was wrong by having that opinion so decided to report the ones who I know was breaking this rule sistematically, like the first post of the C&A report proves.

[eddie2]

the case with you and blitz had ongoing games on a weekly or 2 period going back the full amount of time to the present date. this case has a 7 month difference between the old and new. games november to may is the time difference between game times and you have only provided evidence for the old side of the games. not the up to date ones.

[Bones2484]

I wonder how silent you are now in this CA thread. you stated many times that your point is fighting for defined rules and has nothing to do against KORT, so now you have great chance to continue your mission to fight for following that rule principles but for some reason you are very silent this time. all that make me think that your motive was not fighting for defined rules but was fight to screw josko/KORT.

First of all, f*ck off Josko. This has been posted in C&A for one day and I've either been at work or sleeping for about 18 hours it's been up. The other 6 I haven't even been home.

Second of all, it took us four weeks to compile evidence and research it against you and KORT. How do you possibly want me to respond to data you have presented in less than a day when I'm not even home? Especially when the game logs were broken for most of the first day and I wasn't even able to look into the data you had presented. From the quick looks I had taken at your evidence, it appeared strong but you really seemed to exaggerate some of the "timeframes". Meaning, you say "1.5 hours" when in reality it was more like "4-5". This is why I wanted to view the game logs myself, because I do not trust you (plus I needed to convert the times to my time zone to make it easier on my brain). Do you really think I'm going to immediately throw my support behind something that I haven't had time to research myself?

Don't forget that what made compiling evidence against you (and especially Rodion) so easy was that we had an admission in game chat about what you guys are doing. I haven't seen that here, yet, so I'd be interested to see TOFU's defense... though it appears they won't be posting it publicly which is a shame.

And finally, I'll say this: If the case you have presented is true (and I have no idea if it is because I haven't looked at it), then CoF/Pedro should get punished just like a few of you did. If someone is cheating, I hope they are caught. But since you've decided to be such a pain in the ass to me and various members of my clan since you posted this thread, I have zero interest in helping you.

[Evil Semp]

Time to cool down. I am going to lock this until tomorrow hoping cooler heads will prevail. when it is unlocked please only post with new evidence for or against the accused. Also please do not start another thread.

[Evil Semp]

OK let's keep it on topic.

[josko.ri]

OK let's keep it on topic.

thanks for unlocking, I am just completing additional evidence so will add that to the first post soon.

I see on my wall and on forum many messages that this should be irrelevant abuse because evidence is mostly old several months. so I want to add that during the process of the case against me I was being especially asked (by mods) to defend my sitting for #1_stunna from June 2010 (1 year old).

so, if 1 year old evidence was very relevant in the case against me and was something that I needed to give answers about, then I do not see why old data in this case should be irrelevant. otherwise it will just confirm my doubts that on the site exist double standards about enforcing the rules, which depend about who is accused and not about evidence shown.