Logic dictates that there is a God!

[Backglass]

Mayhaps another force has the power to heal? You'll never convince him of that, because to him only God exists and only God can do that stuff!

Yes..it's called the immune system. It is something we do not fully understand and much like the primitive people of the past who didnt understand the sun, stars, tides, infection and weather...there are STILL those today who believe such healing is all done by a magical mystery creature.

[jay_a2j]

Oh, and great job Jay, I just found this thread, I didn't read through it all because that would take all day, but you're doing a great job.

Or all week...lol Thanks but I've had help..... where is Truman and winterstwilight anyway? (my apologies if I left anyone out and I'm sure I did)

[heavycola]

Oh, and great job Jay, I just found this thread, I didn't read through it all because that would take all day, but you're doing a great job.

Or all week...lol Thanks but I've had help..... where is Truman and winterstwilight anyway? (my apologies if I left anyone out and I'm sure I did)

bwahahaha

Truman found himself confronted in this thread with arguments of such elegance, logic and persuasiveness that he renounced his faith and became an atheist. Last I heard he was firebombing churches across the midwest and applying for an abortionist license.

[jay_a2j]

Until someone can logically account for the gasses that started the big bang....it holds no water. If the universe is void of anything. A vast "black space" how does anything come into existence???

One of the following must be true.

1. Something with the ability to create has always existed (non-God). Perhaps an eternal meteor, eternal "gasses", perhaps an eternal volcano.

or

2. There is a God.


Now the rational mind can see that things don't just pop up out of nothing. So all things came from something. That invalidates big bang, prehistoric ooze and the like. Tis why LOGIC DICTATES there must be a God.

But to those who still hold on to the hope that the big bang occurred or that want to start The federated church of OOZE. More power to ya.


The Big Bang Theory: God spoke..and BANG!...it was.

I thought I'd re-post this. It basically sums up the thread.

[Jesse, Bad Boy]

Science has never supposed that there were gases to account for the Big Bang. Molecular mutation and expansion has lead to what we know as the Big Bang.

Moreover, your assertions are falsely dichotomous, and you do not actually touch the concepts of the Big Bang. You use your warped, twisted, and ultimately wrong knowledge to come to an even more so warped, twisted, and patently false conclusion.

[Backglass]

Until someone can logically account for the gasses that started the big bang....it holds no water. If the universe is void of anything. A vast "black space" how does anything come into existence???

One of the following must be true.

1. Something with the ability to create has always existed (non-God). Perhaps an eternal meteor, eternal "gasses", perhaps an eternal volcano.

or

2. There is a God.


Now the rational mind can see that things don't just pop up out of nothing. So all things came from something. That invalidates big bang, prehistoric ooze and the like. Tis why LOGIC DICTATES there must be a God.

But to those who still hold on to the hope that the big bang occurred or that want to start The federated church of OOZE. More power to ya.

Can I play this game too?!


Until someone can logically account for magical being(s) that created the universe....it holds no water. If such creatures exist, where did they come from? Who created them? If he/they live forever, what were they doing for the past billion or so years before earths creation?

One of the following must be true.

1. The universe has always existed and is in a constant state of change. In this infinite universe of planets and solar systems, we evolved to suit the environment, as undoubtedly other life has on other planets in other solar systems.

or

2. There exists a mysterious, magical entity that never shows himself, has sex with earth women and then allows his own offspring to be tortured and killed. Even though he has an unfathomably huge amount of power, he chooses to NOT stop war, child molestation, disease, plague, hunger, genocide and suffering. All of this is for your own good.

Now the rational mind can see that magical beings like fairy's, demons, gods and leprechauns don't exist as these are just legend & lore, created by humans in an attempt to explain that which they do not yet understand. and give them solace in the face of certain, eventual death.

This is why LOGIC DICTATES fairy tale creatures do not exist.

But to those who still hold on to the hope that there is a big man in the sky on a fluffy cloud, watching over us, wanting you to love him, allowing death, famine, war and dieing children to exist. Head on down to the corner temple and start praying. There are plenty of like-minded cultists who will gladly help care & feed your mental illness.

It basically sums up the thread.

Yup...that pretty much sums it up.

[max is gr8]

Maybe I should create a thread called Logic Dictates where people say logic dictates something at the beginning of the page we discuss then at the beginning of the next page logic will dictate

[heavycola]

Because this pretty much sums up this thread

[jay_a2j]

Thanks, I was eating.

[WL_southerner]

do you want a pork sandwich jay

[Kupo666]

Since this thread is still going, I can only assume that an agreement has not been made. And since it's more than 100 pages, I'm not going to look through that to see if what I'm abut to say, has in fact, been posted before. If it has been, I sincerely apologize for the time you will have wasted reading my theory.

Basically, science proves god. It has been said that space is infinite. If it is infinite, technically there are infinite chances, thus infinite possibilities, and infinite beings, worlds, etc. Would it be so hard to believe of god coming from infinite chances? For that matter, what about a dozen gods? Just as likely as one, and with an infinite number of chances, they'll be somewhere. So basically what I'm saying is that having a god is like winning the lottery. The chances are extremely low, but if you play an infinite number of times, you will win sooner or later.

[Guiscard]

do you want a pork sandwich jay

[unriggable]

Until someone can logically account for the gasses that started the big bang....it holds no water. If the universe is void of anything. A vast "black space" how does anything come into existence???

All the atoms that create everything in existence were bundled up into what I asusme would be an ultra mega massive black hole. There was water. It wasn't all just 'emptiness'

One of the following must be true.

1. Something with the ability to create has always existed (non-God). Perhaps an eternal meteor, eternal "gasses", perhaps an eternal volcano.

Or you just aren't listening that nothing needs to be eternal (things recycle) - you're thinking way is too much inside what you know and not outside.

or

2. There is a God.


Now the rational mind can see that things don't just pop up out of nothing. So all things came from something. That invalidates big bang, prehistoric ooze and the like. Tis why LOGIC DICTATES there must be a God.

But to those who still hold on to the hope that the big bang occurred or that want to start The federated church of OOZE. More power to ya.

Well by your logic God can't just pop out of nowhere.

[neoni]

how anybody can pretend the concept of a god and all the stories in the christian bible is more logical than the big bang theory is completely beyond me

[Darklight]

Theory? Both can't be proven. That's why they invented Agnosticism for those who lack faith, Faith is the real issue. If you can't believe something don't try to get everyone to believe you.
People who try to make fun of believers are the ones who usually either unsure what to believe or are afraid that by believing that they may face divine punishment for there wrong actions. Those who have nothing to fear have it easy. Why not believe when it means Divine Pleasure after death?
the moral here is be a good person and you have nothing to fear but fear itself. That and taxes

[neoni]

i think a truly good and omniscient god would be disgusted by that logic.

being moral JUST to get into heaven?

[Darklight]

Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning "without" and gnosis, "knowledge", translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.

Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.

[Darklight]

Hey if it works right?

[neoni]

i couldn't for a second believe in a god so egotistical that the motive for prayer is irrelevant

[jay_a2j]

i couldn't for a second believe in a god so egotistical that the motive for prayer is irrelevant

You don't have to believe in Him....yet He still exists. People should want to please God, not just to go to heaven.

[flashleg8]

Until someone can logically account for the gasses that started the big bang....it holds no water. If the universe is void of anything. A vast "black space" how does anything come into existence???

I think you are confused about the big bang concept. The big bang theory speculates that the early universe had an incredibly high energy density and was the fore was at extremely high temperature and pressure. Energy and mass are related (as the mass-energy equivalence law E = mc2 states) this tells us all matter(mass) can be created from the initial high energy present.
It might be easier to think of the universe decaying (changing state) from an initially high energy state to a lower one, the matter that makes up the universe is a side effect of the released energy potential from this transition. Similar perhaps to the radioactive decay of isotopes releasing radiation.
If you want a more detailed explanation of how the matter itsself was created I will include the following quote from Wikipedia, you can follow the gradual creation of atoms from energy that will lead to the gasses you are looking for:

The early universe was filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density and concomitantly huge temperatures and pressures. Approximately 10−35 seconds after the Planck epoch a phase transition caused a cosmic inflation, when the universe grew exponentially.

After inflation stopped, the universe consisted of a quark-gluon plasma, perhaps experimentally produced recently as a quark-gluon liquid in which the constituent particles were all moving relativistically -- as well as all other elementary particles.[15] At some point a reaction (as yet unknown) which violated conservation of baryon number led to a very small excess of quarks and leptons over antiquarks and anti-leptons (of the order of 1 part in 1010) - this unknown process is called baryogenesis.

As the universe continued growing in size, the temperature dropped. Symmetry breaking phase transitions put the forces of physics and elementary particles into their present form. Quarks and gluons combined into baryons such as protons and neutrons. The small excess of quarks over antiquarks led to a small excess of baryons over antibaryons. Below a certain temperature, new proton/antiproton pairs could no longer be created, and a mass annihilation between the remaining protons and antiprotons resulted in the complete disappearance of antiprotons and the almost complete disappearance of protons. A similar process happened for neutrons/antineutrons, and, at a lower temperature, for electrons/positrons.

Later, some protons and neutrons combined to form the universe's deuterium and helium nuclei in a process called Big Bang nucleosynthesis. As the universe cooled, matter particles gradually slowed down from moving relativistically and its rest mass energy density came to gravitationally dominate that of radiation. After about 380,000 years the electrons and nuclei combined into atoms (mostly hydrogen).

[AlgyTaylor]

Until someone can logically account for the gasses that started the big bang....it holds no water. If the universe is void of anything. A vast "black space" how does anything come into existence???

Nobody knows, nor is likely ever to know, the answer to this. As was posted before, in your opinion - what was God up to BEFORE he create the earth? You don't know either.

The difference between science and religion is that science doesn't claim things to be true when it isn't certain. eg, the Theory of Evolution is still a theory because it can't be proved (yet) for all cases in all situations. But it does fit all of the cases that we can observe. The amount of evidence is such that, if it's not completely true, it's REALLY close to the truth.

I thought I'd re-post this. It basically sums up the thread.

No ... no, it doesn't. What sums up this thread is that the majority of people accept that dinosaurs existed, evolution happens, the earth is round and that God didn't create it. And that a few people who are unable to grasp fairly simple ideas are arguing against it.

The Bible's fine provided you take it as what it is .... a book showing our knowledge of the world in 400BC.

[Backglass]

People who try to make fun of believers are the ones who usually either unsure what to believe or are afraid that by believing that they may face divine punishment for there wrong actions. Those who have nothing to fear have it easy. Why not believe when it means Divine Pleasure after death?

This is the typical "believer" line of thinking as pounded in by many a preacher. The "Atheists are really afraid deep in their heart if they would only look", line. In reality, it is exactly the opposite. It is the fear of a supreme overlord that drives the zealots to their many rituals, lest they not be accepted and be "cast out". The fear of the unknown drives many others to religion through the "They might be right, what's it gonna hurt?" line of thinking. As if going to church, going through the motions and not being eyebrow deep in faith like jay is going to fool a true diety.

I am not afraid of superstitions. Really.

the moral here is be a good person and you have nothing to fear but fear itself. That and taxes

Exactly! And one must not believe in the supernatural to do either.

[jay_a2j]

what was God up to BEFORE he create the earth? You don't know either.

One thing I do know, God created angels before He created the Earth.

The difference between science and religion is that science doesn't claim things to be true when it isn't certain. eg, the Theory of Evolution is still a theory because it can't be proved (yet) for all cases in all situations. But it does fit all of the cases that we can observe. The amount of evidence is such that, if it's not completely true, it's REALLY close to the truth.

Try telling that to many atheists here who are convinced that evolution is a fact. BTW the Bible is a little more than "close" to the truth.

No ... no, it doesn't. What sums up this thread is that the majority of people accept that dinosaurs existed, evolution happens, the earth is round and that God didn't create it. And that a few people who are unable to grasp fairly simple ideas are arguing against it.

The Bible's fine provided you take it as what it is .... a book showing our knowledge of the world in 400BC.

The majority of Christians accept that dinosaurs existed (hard to dispute with the fossil records on file). Evolution doesn't happen. The Earth is round and God did create it.


I will take the Bible for what it is.... the Word of God.

[neoni]

i'm pretty sure you're a troll