Three Kingdoms of China - v10.1 [2015-02-01] p15 [Quenched]

[Oregon Gamer]

Do Fou-Ling and Wuling connect? Can't quite tell if the mountains separate them.

[Seamus76]

Do Fou-Ling and Wuling connect? Can't quite tell if the mountains separate them.

Thanks for taking a look, your feedback is much appreciated. They do, and actually in the next update I've already changed that to be more apparent.

I had lost 4 days worth of work in a rookie "save" instead of "save as" move, so I had to go back to an earlier version and redo from there. I'm finished with the mountains again, including that change, but had to take a break to fix up tribal war - Israel. I should have this up shortly, so let me know if you see anything else.

[RedBaron0]

Just wanna make sure file corruption didn't destroy the map before I stamp here Seamus. Soon as you get another update up, and there isn't any more issues, you'll be good to go.

[Seamus76]

Just wanna make sure file corruption didn't destroy the map before I stamp here Seamus. Soon as you get another update up, and there isn't any more issues, you'll be good to go.

Nah, no corruption. Just had to go back to a backup version, but I'm already fought up to the current version and working on the small.

[isaiah40]

What's the status on this seamus??? We would like to get this stamped very soon!!

[Seamus76]

What's the status on this seamus??? We would like to get this stamped very soon!!

Trust me, so would I. Just finished up redoing all of the region text, now just need to do the mini-maps and should be able to post later this evening.

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2013-04-06:
Posted are the current large and small versions, including 888 versions of both. These should be good to go, but if there is anything that needs tweeking let me know, but once we get the stamp I'll kick V.J.'s ass to get the xml asap.

CURRENT MAP VERSION

v7.0 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

v7.0 - Small (630x600)

Click image to enlarge.

v7.0 - Large (840x800)-with 888's and starting neutrals

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

v7.0 - Small (630x600)-with 888's

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

Gee that was a very long evening seamus!!

Anyways get the CB tests posted, and please remember to update the OP with everything if you haven't done so already.

[Seamus76]

Gee that was a very long evening seamus!!

Anyways get the CB tests posted, and please remember to update the OP with everything if you haven't done so already.

OP has been updated with all CB tests, and everything else should be included as well. Let me know if I am missing anything.

[squeaks_is_mine]

Ugh...I know I am being impatient but please get this map up ASAP!

[Seamus76]

Ugh...I know I am being impatient but please get this map up ASAP!

I'm with you for sure. I think this one should be pretty quick once we get the xml going, which should be shortly I guess.

[RedBaron0]

Ugh...I know I am being impatient but please get this map up ASAP!

I'm with you for sure. I think this one should be pretty quick once we get the xml going, which should be shortly I guess.

Perhaps...

[Gilligan]

Ugh...I know I am being impatient but please get this map up ASAP!

I'm with you for sure. I think this one should be pretty quick once we get the xml going, which should be shortly I guess.

Sounds good to me!

[Seamus76]

Ugh...I know I am being impatient but please get this map up ASAP!

I'm with you for sure. I think this one should be pretty quick once we get the xml going, which should be shortly I guess.

Sounds good to me!

I've never seen a retiree work so hard in my life.

[Gilligan]

Ugh...I know I am being impatient but please get this map up ASAP!

I'm with you for sure. I think this one should be pretty quick once we get the xml going, which should be shortly I guess.

Sounds good to me!

I've never seen a retiree work so hard in my life.

Tell me about it...thanks tnb.

[P4Ssoa]

Very nice map you made there seamus. I only read some posts on the first page, so it could be I missed something and what I say may already have been said.

I think it is pretty good this one doesn't have rails connecting regions and nukes and all the hassle. Many players enjoy a normal map too from time to time. If you choose to play random games, it's nice to see a normal map every now and then.

Some things I think are strange:
Central Wei: 9 territories, 7 borders: Bonus = 5
Jing: 5 territories, 4 borders: Bonus = 5
Riverland: 7 territories, 4 borders, bonus = 4
Yang: 6 territories, 3 borders: bonus = 3
Southern Yi: 5 territories, 3 borders: bonus = 2
Jiao: 5 territories, 2 borders: bonus = 2

Maybe I missed something, I don't think the bonusses are distributed very well.

The riverlands have 2 more territories, the same amount of borders and a smaller bonus then jing.
Central wei has almost double territories and borders, but the same bonus then jing.
Yang has one territory more then jing, but 1 border less, though it has only a bonus of 3.
Southern Yi has the same amount of territories as Jing, but 1 border less, though the bonus of Jing is 5 and Southern Yi only 2.
Jiao has also 5 territories, just like Jing and Southern Yi, but 2 borders less. It has only a bonus of 2.

I would make the jing bonus smaller and the central wei bonus bigger. Something is just not right here.
I guess Central wei could be 6, while jing 4. Riverland 4 and Yang 4 too. Southern Yi 3 and Jiao 2 or 3.

Nice map. I can't wait to see it in bèta

[Seamus76]

Very nice map you made there seamus. I only read some posts on the first page, so it could be I missed something and what I say may already have been said.

I think it is pretty good this one doesn't have rails connecting regions and nukes and all the hassle. Many players enjoy a normal map too from time to time. If you choose to play random games, it's nice to see a normal map every now and then.

Some things I think are strange:
Central Wei: 9 territories, 7 borders: Bonus = 5
Jing: 5 territories, 4 borders: Bonus = 5
Riverland: 7 territories, 4 borders, bonus = 4
Yang: 6 territories, 3 borders: bonus = 3
Southern Yi: 5 territories, 3 borders: bonus = 2
Jiao: 5 territories, 2 borders: bonus = 2

Maybe I missed something, I don't think the bonusses are distributed very well.

The riverlands have 2 more territories, the same amount of borders and a smaller bonus then jing.
Central wei has almost double territories and borders, but the same bonus then jing.
Yang has one territory more then jing, but 1 border less, though it has only a bonus of 3.
Southern Yi has the same amount of territories as Jing, but 1 border less, though the bonus of Jing is 5 and Southern Yi only 2.
Jiao has also 5 territories, just like Jing and Southern Yi, but 2 borders less. It has only a bonus of 2.

I would make the jing bonus smaller and the central wei bonus bigger. Something is just not right here.
I guess Central wei could be 6, while jing 4. Riverland 4 and Yang 4 too. Southern Yi 3 and Jiao 2 or 3.

Nice map. I can't wait to see it in bèta

Thanks so much for the feedback, I can tell you really took a lot of time to analyze the bonuses, and I appreciate your time.

Let me start by saying I am the first to admit that I am no gamplay guy, unfortunately I usually defer to the mods and my map partner V.J. on bonus issues and things. For this map I don't think you missed anything as most of the bonuses were hammered for the original, abandoned map by gimil. If you read through that thread in my original post you'll see the bonuses were worked out over good period of time, and then recently it was thoroughly reviewed by the gameplay mods prior to the gameplay stamp.

I want the map to be fair, balanced, and most of all fun, so if some of the mods can check this out and let me know if things need to be changed I'd be happy to do that.

[P4Ssoa]

I'm no gameplay guy either and I have made no maps. I'm not very often in the foundry (or even in the forums) so I can be totally wrong here.
It was just something that caught my attention when I scanned the map.

[iancanton]

Strictly speaking for the territorial bonuses, the only one I would recommend changing is increasing Central Wei to a +6, but this probably isn't going to matter.

nolefan did suggest that +6 for central wei was more appropriate, so we can try that. we need to ensure that the kingdom bonuses are worth having, therefore kingdom of wei has to be at least +10 or +11 if this happens. in light of both this and ur useful comments above, i'll take another look at the bonuses.

most names are in modern chinese pinyin, while some are in an older system of chinese romanisation (the obvious ones to me are chien an and yueh-sui). i'll try to find the pinyin names for those two regions.

it will add to the chinese flavour of the map, without compromising playability, for north to be replaced by bei, south by nan and west by xi where they appear in region names.

ian.

[Seamus76]

Strictly speaking for the territorial bonuses, the only one I would recommend changing is increasing Central Wei to a +6, but this probably isn't going to matter.

nolefan did suggest that +6 for central wei was more appropriate, so we can try that. we need to ensure that the kingdom bonuses are worth having, therefore kingdom of wei has to be at least +10 or +11 if this happens. in light of both this and ur useful comments above, i'll take another look at the bonuses.

most names are in modern chinese pinyin, while some are in an older system of chinese romanisation (the obvious ones to me are chien an and yueh-sui). i'll try to find the pinyin names for those two regions.

it will add to the chinese flavour of the map, without compromising playability, for north to be replaced by bei, south by nan and west by xi where they appear in region names.

ian.

Thanks for the time Ian. Not to rush you or anything, but I know VJ has started on the xml, so once you can get me some concrete info to update I'd be happy to make the changes.

[Seamus76]

Strictly speaking for the territorial bonuses, the only one I would recommend changing is increasing Central Wei to a +6, but this probably isn't going to matter.

nolefan did suggest that +6 for central wei was more appropriate, so we can try that. we need to ensure that the kingdom bonuses are worth having, therefore kingdom of wei has to be at least +10 or +11 if this happens. in light of both this and ur useful comments above, i'll take another look at the bonuses.

most names are in modern chinese pinyin, while some are in an older system of chinese romanisation (the obvious ones to me are chien an and yueh-sui). i'll try to find the pinyin names for those two regions.

it will add to the chinese flavour of the map, without compromising playability, for north to be replaced by bei, south by nan and west by xi where they appear in region names.

ian.

Thanks for the time Ian. Not to rush you or anything, but I know VJ has started on the xml, so once you can get me some concrete info to update I'd be happy to make the changes.

Also, regarding nolefan's comment on the Central Wei bonus, he did say that changing it to +6 might be a good idea, but that it really wouldn't matter. At that time we went ahead and kept it as it is, which is what I would like to do now, instead of change it. I think if it's a problem it could be worked out in beta, no?

[iancanton]

if possible, please increase kingdom of wei from +9 to +11 to balance wei against shu, which is an easier bonus. central wei can be fixed in beta if necessary, while i'm happy with nolefan's decision on the other zonal bonuses. southern yi can be less disadvantaged by letting nanman start with n2 instead of n3 neutrals.

change the n3 from bei ping west to an n2 on bei ping port to reduce the chance of starting with a cities bonus. in fact, now i look at it some more, what's to prevent player 1 from using his own cities bonus to knock out player 2's cities bonus, then continuing with 1 or 2 extra troops per turn to secure a decisive advantage? rather than +1 for every 2 cities, +4 for any 5 cities will eliminate this problem.

by the way, i'm away for the next week. however, koontz will be around if u need to ask any questions about gameplay.

ian.

[Seamus76]

if possible, please increase kingdom of wei from +9 to +11 to balance wei against shu, which is an easier bonus. central wei can be fixed in beta if necessary, while i'm happy with nolefan's decision on the other zonal bonuses. southern yi can be less disadvantaged by letting nanman start with n2 instead of n3 neutrals.

change the n3 from bei ping west to an n2 on bei ping port to reduce the chance of starting with a cities bonus. in fact, now i look at it some more, what's to prevent player 1 from using his own cities bonus to knock out player 2's cities bonus, then continuing with 1 or 2 extra troops per turn to secure a decisive advantage? rather than +1 for every 2 cities, +4 for any 5 cities will eliminate this problem.

by the way, i'm away for the next week. however, koontz will be around if u need to ask any questions about gameplay.

ian.

the first part is easy, I'll update that.

With regard to the second, I want to make sure you're taking into consideration that no matter how many players per game, each player will only start with 1 city. So player 1 in your example won't have a city bonus to start. As neither will player 2, etc. The other non distributed cities start 2n. That is also why being ping west can stay as is.

Other than the above are the names fine as is?

[iancanton]

i thought i remembered reading something about a maximum of one city, but couldn't find it. does this mean each player starts with 12 regions in 2-player and 3-player games? u'll need to solve that one too, possibly by giving a starting maximum of 2 cities and changing the bonus to +2 for every 3 cities.

as for the names, chien an appears to be kuaiji, while yueh-sui is spelt yuesui these days and yueh-sui south corresponds most closely to jianning.

https://digitalcollections.anu.edu.au/h ... n_maps.pdf

ian.

[Seamus76]

i thought i remembered reading something about a maximum of one city, but couldn't find it. does this mean each player starts with 12 regions in 2-player and 3-player games? u'll need to solve that one too, possibly by giving a starting maximum of 2 cities and changing the bonus to +2 for every 3 cities.

as for the names, chien an appears to be kuaiji, while yueh-sui is spelt yuesui these days and yueh-sui south corresponds most closely to jianning.

https://digitalcollections.anu.edu.au/h ... n_maps.pdf

ian.

Can you take a quick look at the OP and let me know if we have those set up correctly? Right now we have 2 player games starting 10 each, and 3 players 8 each.