Malta [Quenched]

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:14 am

ruben you dont loose you patiente yet?
Im in end of my.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:38 am

qwert wrote:ruben you dont loose you patiente yet?
Im in end of my.

Never give up in life my friend. Perseverance is the key to success. I am sure you will complete both your maps. Good luck!

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:45 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:
qwert wrote:ruben you dont loose you patiente yet?
Im in end of my.
Never give up in life my friend. Perseverance is the key to success. I am sure you will complete both your maps. Good luck!

thats a good riddle for concer club, never give up

i thought i did must give up in game 158746, well now i am growing again

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:38 pm

Isnt the space under the title ok to place the compass? I would really like to avoid wasted space, mainly in the west side, because this way I would need to scroll right a lot every attack. Can you please think about remove one photo, or reduce the legend, or do something to cut out that area?

The map is beautiful, beyond cutting that area (and maybe test other fonts), and some playability questions (happy to see you created a poll), no more problems.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:51 pm

Hm, well it is surely getting better. Lets see...

Regarding the placement of the flag and the compass, can you try putting the flag behind the title? You might have to make it look like 'Malta', so you can easily read it on the flag background...but it'd surely save space, and you could put the compass back near it's original area. That might be the key to the placement of everything.
The legend looks better, and regarding the bottom descriptions either add 'Bonus' to the Land's End one, or remove 'Bonus' from the Capital City.
Perhaps if you have space still in the upper left corner, you could move the 'Ghawdex' there, and bump the size a little, and perhaps bump Malta slightly.
The Land's End icons look better, maybe even look into doing the same visual effect with the Helipad...right now...the dark color of the helipad stands out kind of glaringly...and doesn't flow with the brightness of the map.
I read you were still working on the images for the impassable walls, so I won't comment on those.
Regarding colors, I suggest looking into lots of different shades, rather than just the simple colorwheel ones. More often than not, the 'regular' colors don't always work so well for maps.
Lastly, we'll see how those army shadows look with the army coordinates. We might have to buff the size, and play with the colors. I've found the transparents ones work the best, and still look the best. White is horrendous, as it looks like someone took a paperhole puncher to the map, and gray takes away from all the colors of the map.

--Andy

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:07 pm

Ok guys I will try to address these issues in the next revision.

However I did not understand what Andy meant with simple colourwheels. You mean I should not use the regular colours in Photoshop? I checked the size of the shadows with another map and they seemed the same size. If the numbers don't fit we can always enlarge them. I also did not understand why Marvaddin would have to scroll to the right. I think that depends either on the resolution you use as a general setting for your display or else on which version of the map you use (large or small)...right?

Until the next update guys I will be closely monitoring the result of the poll.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:14 pm

I mean, not all 'regular' primary and secondary (and sometimes tertiary) colors work on the map. Altering shades and tones can help with the visuals.

--Andy

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:37 pm

Ok thanks Andy. I will experiment with colours. Are there any particular ones that need to be changed though?

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:40 pm

Mostly I think it involves placement. You've three bright colors next to each other...in Malta. Then the rest of the map, seems to light...but not bright. Try a few different schemes, but if none work, you can always come back to this one, but I'm not a big fan of it.

--Andy

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:50 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Mostly I think it involves placement. You've three bright colors next to each other...in Malta. Then the rest of the map, seems to light...but not bright. Try a few different schemes, but if none work, you can always come back to this one, but I'm not a big fan of it.

--Andy

I actually tried to place similar colours next to each other because I thought you told me not to put contrasting colours next to each other in the previous version.

For example before I had blue and yellow (I think) close to each other and you told me they contrasted with each other. Then I tried to put three shades of blue next to each other for example, each one darkening a bit so as to avoid sharp contrasts.

I will try to work a bit with them. Maybe make the colours less bright?

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:21 pm

Version 4.13a

Amendments effected:

1. Added the word 'bonus' to Land's End in legend.
2. Moved Ghawdex to upper left corner.
3. Increased size of Malta and Ghawdex text and added texture to them.
4. New impassable borders graphics in Malta - are they better?
5. Reduced dark colour of Helipad.
6. Reduced brightness of the regions' colours.
7. Added texture to the sea - is it better?
8. Added more depth to the islands making them look more three dimensional - are they better this way?
9. Fiddled with compass and map locations but came to the conclusion that they are better where they are then in the positions suggested.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:29 pm

While I really like this map and the visual style, I think it's all getting too busy and losing its direction. My suggestions:

- Remove the flag and compass, they are not necessary
- Make the Malta title bigger and move it in to the right-top corner
- Remove all the pictures except for maybe one, but increase it's size and reduce the opacity of it (my choice would be to keep the planes)
- Maybe a faint drop shadow behind the territory names

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:41 pm

KEYOGI wrote:While I really like this map and the visual style, I think it's all getting too busy and losing its direction. My suggestions:

- Remove the flag and compass, they are not necessary
- Make the Malta title bigger and move it in to the right-top corner
- Remove all the pictures except for maybe one, but increase it's size and reduce the opacity of it (my choice would be to keep the planes)
- Maybe a faint drop shadow behind the territory names

Christ, I suppose the reason I liked australia so fast is because Keyogi and I have similar opinions when it comes to maps..That is exactly what I believe it needs so I"ll second that.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:54 pm

KEYOGI wrote:While I really like this map and the visual style, I think it's all getting too busy and losing its direction. My suggestions:

- Remove the flag and compass, they are not necessary
- Make the Malta title bigger and move it in to the right-top corner
- Remove all the pictures except for maybe one, but increase it's size and reduce the opacity of it (my choice would be to keep the planes)
- Maybe a faint drop shadow behind the territory names

I am experimenting on it right now. I removed all the pics except for the Spitfire vs the Stuka over the Grand Harbour. I have enlarged the Malta title and moved it. I have removed the flag but I kept the compass. I think it looks much less cluttered now. I will post a copy for comparison soon.

P.S. - Reverend Kyle please don't mention Christ for trivial things. You of all people should know that!

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:03 pm

Version 4.13a and 4.13b for comparison:

Version 4.13a

Version 4.13b

Selin · Post by **Selin** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:17 pm

when can we play it?

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:21 pm

Selin wrote:when can we play it?

That I don't know. It doesn't depend on me. It must get approval from the map foundry. I am working to achieve that!

qeee1 · Post by **qeee1** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:28 pm

I think the poll is slightly stilted in that it assumes the lesser impassable borders do lead to a concentration on defence, which I don't they do.

I like the changes as a result of keyogi's recommendations, even though I wouldn't have suggested them myself, makes the map look much less cluttered.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:41 pm

I think that looks much better. However, can you try these?

Move the title all the way to the right, leaving the same pixel gap to edge that you currently have at the top

I'm not sure the picture works how it is, could you maybe work with placement? What about making it bigger and having it behind the title if the title doesn't interfere with the aircraft.

The compass placement is better and I understand why you want it included. I'm not convinced it being on the white circle background is fitting though. It doesn't really go with the rest of the map.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:54 pm

Qeee1 wrote:I think the poll is slightly stilted in that it assumes the lesser impassable borders do lead to a concentration on defence, which I don't they do...

First off, I'm going to have to agree with Qeee1. I recently just played on the Ireland map, to get a feel for the 'defense' idea again. Didn't work out so well (I got knocked out first!), but I don't think that map, or this one will achieve a defensive feel. I think it will achieve more of a feel of 'Ah crap, I've got 6 borders to defend, each with 3 armies.' or 'I've got to attack, attack, attack, he's got week borders, and he'll take out my borders next turn for sure.' It almost seems like this map focus MORE on offense...and quickdrawing...quite the opposite of what you are trying to achieve I think. And it seems Tramunt. Gwadex is the only continent worth holding...in regards to border to value. What about increasing the bonuses dramatically, to increase the incentive of getting up a continent and holding it? Perhaps that isn't focusing on defense either.

Honestly, if you want to play a defensive map...Classic is quite good. Think about it...North America...nice little value for 3 borders. SA, decent hold out for a bonus. Australia, an easy hold out if you can take it, and defend it. Lots of people build up armies there. I think you are trying to dictate a style of play...which might not necessarily be achieveable with map design.

I'll comment more on the visuals later.

--Andy

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:18 am

AndyDufresne wrote:
Qeee1 wrote:I think the poll is slightly stilted in that it assumes the lesser impassable borders do lead to a concentration on defence, which I don't they do...
First off, I'm going to have to agree with Qeee1. I recently just played on the Ireland map, to get a feel for the 'defense' idea again. Didn't work out so well (I got knocked out first!), but I don't think that map, or this one will achieve a defensive feel. I think it will achieve more of a feel of 'Ah crap, I've got 6 borders to defend, each with 3 armies.' or 'I've got to attack, attack, attack, he's got week borders, and he'll take out my borders next turn for sure.' It almost seems like this map focus MORE on offense...and quickdrawing...quite the opposite of what you are trying to achieve I think. And it seems Tramunt. Gwadex is the only continent worth holding...in regards to border to value. What about increasing the bonuses dramatically, to increase the incentive of getting up a continent and holding it? Perhaps that isn't focusing on defense either.

Honestly, if you want to play a defensive map...Classic is quite good. Think about it...North America...nice little value for 3 borders. SA, decent hold out for a bonus. Australia, an easy hold out if you can take it, and defend it. Lots of people build up armies there. I think you are trying to dictate a style of play...which might not necessarily be achieveable with map design.

I'll comment more on the visuals later.

--Andy

Ok we'll see how the poll goes and in that case I will revise the borders or add more borders. It's not a problem.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:30 am

hi ruben. map looks amazing. It seems the island is actuallu coming out of the water. Best map i've seen graphically so far. I suggestion ignore the bear/panada or whatever it is... Leave thepics how they are. But i would remove malta map and compass. Or otherwise and heres an idea. Have the malta flag where it says malta right now. And write malta in your flag!!!

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:32 am

KEYOGI wrote:I think that looks much better. However, can you try these?

Move the title all the way to the right, leaving the same pixel gap to edge that you currently have at the top

I'm not sure the picture works how it is, could you maybe work with placement? What about making it bigger and having it behind the title if the title doesn't interfere with the aircraft.

The compass placement is better and I understand why you want it included. I'm not convinced it being on the white circle background is fitting though. It doesn't really go with the rest of the map.

I am trying this but putting a picture behind the title is not an option as the result is a disaster. I tried that with the flag as well and it didn't work out. Maybe I will have to take the picture out altogether because I am not satisfied either with the way it is looking dow.

In that case I might enlarge the title a bit more. Regarding the compass I have added some opacity to it and it seems to blend more with the map now. Waiting for further feedback before posting new updates.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:40 am

Ruben Cassar wrote:I am trying this but putting a picture behind the title is not an option as the result is a disaster. I tried that with the flag as well and it didn't work out. Maybe I will have to take the picture out altogether because I am not satisfied either with the way it is looking dow.

In that case I might enlarge the title a bit more. Regarding the compass I have added some opacity to it and it seems to blend more with the map now. Waiting for further feedback before posting new updates.

That's fine, I thought it might not work. See what everyone else says, but I don't think the pics are necessary as they draw attention away from the map. It's just my opinion, but I also feel that they don't work with the rest of the maps visuals. I think everything more or less compliments each other, but the pics kind of stand out more than they should.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:41 pm

Okay after listening to your feedback I came with a third version of the map. Let me know which one you prefer.

This is Version 4.13c

Amendments effected:

1. Added small images instead of the pictures. Perhaps these flow better with the map theme.
2. Added opacity to compass and moved it to a different location.
3. Moved map title.
4. Also added trees as impassable borders near Mdina. Still waiting feedback on the other new impassable borders graphics used in Malta. Maybe I could use a mixture of them and the trees.